quick garrett turbo question... opinions

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by Dougal

I take it the girlfiriend approved then?

Yep... we had to cross some serious mountains retracing our steps after she left her glasses somewhere. After that it was "ok, we can do it if it's around $1,000"...

[mel lowe]

Sounds like you are getting a great deal!

Awesome!


When does the cat door go in?

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by mel lowe

When does the cat door go in?

I still can't figure out where to put it, but we actually kinda need it. One idea was to put it through one of the rear wheel-wells, she likes to sit on the tires and leaf springs. I'm loath to cut through the tub though, as it's all so clean.

[gerg]

A cat door! That is awesome... you have to do a write up on it. I mean never has such a thing even entered my head. Very kewl.
G

By the way, whats the diameter of an Anaconda?

[Tapage]

Dude .. my turbo setup doing with my hands cost more than 1200 bucks .. it means 1200 with all parts an labor included .. steal !

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by gerg

By the way, whats the diameter of an Anaconda?

A big one or a small one?


Went by the shop today. Today was the earliest they said it might be done, and it wasn't. No big surprise. However, got a chance to take a few quick photos of the work so far.

Three pictures below.

The first one shows where we're at so far. As you can see, they didn't fabricate a manifold from scratch, but flipped our old one. Should I be concerned about this? I've heard of people using this technique... but are there downsides?

In the second one, it shows a closeup of the exhaust exit coming out of the turbo. It looks a little small to me... ? Aren't turbo exhausts supposed to be massively wide to reduce backpressure?

In the third you can see Anya, giving the turbo "bunny ears". Evidently she's jealous that I spend more money on the landcruiser than her.

[Dougal]

I think you'd have to double your price to get a custom manfold.
I'd suggest doing that later on at your leisure. A solid setup that works is likely what you're going to get, you can fine tune it later.

[cruiser_guy]

Ideally the turbo has runs of equal length from all cylinders which is why you see most all turbo manifolds coming off the center. It's also why most headers you see on high performance cars use header runs of equal lengths. The rationale is that each pulse will not interfere with the one before it since it has the same distance to travel. With runners of unequal lengths (like flipping a manifold) pulses can interfere with each other and cause a performance loss. What that performance loss might be I have NO idea since both of my trucks have a turbo manifold.

As for the turbo discharge, you want the larger pipe but speaking strictly from an air movement perspective the ideal pipe size is the turbo discharge diameter which would run for about 15 diameters and after which it could change size with a transition not to exceed 7.5 degrees. As you can imagine that simply does not work under the hood. You DO want to maintain the turbo output for a distance, I'd say into the downpipe, at which time a gentle transition could be made to whatever size exhaust you plan to use.

Also you would ideally run the wastegate separately but again, who wants an extra tailpipe? If your turbo has an integral wastegate and it appears it does, you want that wastegate to enter the exhaust smoothly and not have to make any abrupt turns. Personally that is one aspect that I really do not like about the turbo discharge that you have. I do not see any accomodation made for the wastegate discharge in your pictures. It looks like they simply put a plate across the turbo outlet and cut a pipe into it.

Of your setup, I'd change the wastegate setup first. The rest you can likely live with as long as the exhaust discharge from the turbo is not significantly smaller than the turbo discharge itself.

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by cruiser_guy

I do not see any accomodation made for the wastegate discharge in your pictures. It looks like they simply put a plate across the turbo outlet and cut a pipe into it.

I think maybe they just hadn't done this yet? Nothing was bolted down and they seemed to be just trying to piece everything into place. Otherwise, I'll mention that to them. Since I'm paying a flat rate, I don't mind bugging them until it's the way I want it, and I may have to...

[Tapage]

Only one thing I can point ... the exhaust could be more bigger ... sure. It looks 2" ?

[joshoisasleep]

OK, the work is done. I took the truck for a test drive today with two of the guys from the shop. The boost gauge we were using was metric, so I can't really offer performance numbers. All I can say is that yes, it felt like I was at sea level again... although The boost at low revs was a little less impressive than I'd hoped.

To summarize...

In the "I'm stoked" category
1. The work all looks really well done
2. They replaced the entire air cleaner assembly
3. Now my hood shuts properly for some reason. I blame the air cleaner
4. Turbo works great, more power and no more black smoke
5. There's talk of the price going down. ($1,200 was the figure given as the "Maximum" we would pay... I made them put it in writing and thus expected to be paying exactly that)

In the "Get what you pay for" category
1. No pyro. I'm really unhappy about this after what people have been saying on here about needing a pyro. Unfortunately, there's no local supplier. Waiting for one to be shipped is not going to fly with the woman. I'm thinking of heading for the coast to find some sort of marine supply shop on advice from Tapage.
2. Old exhaust pipe is being used, complete with muffler. Do you guys think I should replace with a wider one? It would probably be cheap here, I know a good shop.
3. boost at low revs more than compensates for altitude... I feel like it could be better though

Pics of the finished install tomorrow... after we pay though.

Thoughts?

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by joshoisasleep

OK, the work is done. I took the truck for a test drive today with two of the guys from the shop. The boost gauge we were using was metric, so I can't really offer performance numbers. All I can say is that yes, it felt like I was at sea level again... although The boost at low revs was a little less impressive than I'd hoped.

To summarize...

In the "I'm stoked" category
1. The work all looks really well done
2. They replaced the entire air cleaner assembly
3. Now my hood shuts properly for some reason. I blame the air cleaner
4. Turbo works great, more power and no more black smoke
5. There's talk of the price going down. ($1,200 was the figure given as the "Maximum" we would pay... I made them put it in writing and thus expected to be paying exactly that)

In the "Get what you pay for" category
1. No pyro. I'm really unhappy about this after what people have been saying on here about needing a pyro. Unfortunately, there's no local supplier. Waiting for one to be shipped is not going to fly with the woman. I'm thinking of heading for the coast to find some sort of marine supply shop on advice from Tapage.
2. Old exhaust pipe is being used, complete with muffler. Do you guys think I should replace with a wider one? It would probably be cheap here, I know a good shop.
3. boost at low revs more than compensates for altitude... I feel like it could be better though

Pics of the finished install tomorrow... after we pay though.

Thoughts?

Good to hear.

Converting from metric to imp for boost isn't hard. 100kPa = 15psi = 1 bar.
Fit a new exhaust when you get the chance and you'll reap the rewards. Fit a pyro when you get the chance and get it tuned to suit. Have they increased the fuelling at all with this install?
You weren't really expecting a new exhaust for that price were you?

[joshoisasleep]

No, I'm pretty sure they haven't touched the fueling. The engineer mentioned specifically when trying to console me about the pyrometer that it wouldn't be a big deal because we weren't changing the fueling.

And yeah by "in metric" I mean, I just kinda drove around and looked at it and didn't write anything down...

So all I need for the exhaust is a piece of pipe with no muffler and no other garbage? How wide should it be? 2.5"? 3"? Am I right in thinking it will affect performance and manifold temperature?

And yeah, secretly I was hoping for a custom exhaust and manifold... hey they didn't say they WEREN'T going to

[cruiser_guy]

If you're tight for cash just loose the muffler. If you decide to do the whole system make sure you go to a place that will actually use a proper pipe bender and not the "heat up the pipe with a torch and bend it like corrugations" method. It seems that here in Central America most muffler places do NOT bend the pipe properly. If you cannot find a good muffler shop DON'T change the piping. The corrugations will offset the size gains. I have 2 1/2" pipe on both the BJ60 and the 3B turbo powered FJ55. The FJ45LV will also get 2 1/2" pipe. None of them have mufflers and we have NEVER been asked about it either even at AirCare!

I STRONGLY recommend AGAINST any fuelling adjustments unless you have a pyrometer installed. Maybe someone can send you one where ever you'll be for a few weeks. I have not changed the fuelling on my BJ60 when I installed the turbo and I CAN get it too hot. The FJ55 supposedly has the factory adjustments on the fuel delivery and I can EASILY get it WAY too hot!

[joshoisasleep]

Thanks for the heads up on the piping. My shop has a pipe bender (the guys that built my rear bumper system), so I'll probably get them to do it tomorrow if it's around $50

[joshoisasleep]

I just hate to lose the exhaust... the piping and muffler are all in beautiful condition somehow!! Even brand new gasket. Anyone want? I think shipping might be a lot...

[Dougal]

I wouldn't worry about it.
Finish the trip and enjoy it. Worry about upgrades later.

The altitude compensation is the main benefit for this trip isn't it? In which case your exhaust isn't going to be flowing much more than a stock engine at sealevel anyway.

[joshoisasleep]

Yeah but wear and tear decrease (from high EGTs in the mountains) was also a main purpose. Doesn't having the thinner exhaust increase my EGT's? I just kinda figured if I can have my guys do it tomorrow and do a good job of it for $50 why not do it when it's cheap and before I drive another 20,000km's without it.
Although, that kind of thinking makes it very difficult not to do everything I could possibly imagine to my cruiser at the same time...

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by joshoisasleep

Yeah but wear and tear decrease (from high EGTs in the mountains) was also a main purpose. Doesn't having the thinner exhaust increase my EGT's? I just kinda figured if I can have my guys do it tomorrow and do a good job of it for $50 why not do it when it's cheap and before I drive another 20,000km's without it.
Although, that kind of thinking makes it very difficult not to do everything I could possibly imagine to my cruiser at the same time...

I'm sure your girlfriend will put the necessary brakes on your spending soon enough.

You won't have EGT issues with a turbo fitted and no fuel increase. The EGT's will be a lot lower than stock.

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by joshoisasleep

I just hate to lose the exhaust... the piping and muffler are all in beautiful condition somehow!!

It sounds like you don't want to do it anyways so why bother? I had another BJ60 when I turbo'd my truck and the other truck got the old exhaust system. Loosing the muffler is probably the biggest gain anyways. If you tear out the exhaust later on a rock or something then you can upsize it.

[brownbear]

that set up looks fine to me. Stay with the stock exhaust if it's in good shape. Removing the muffler will help reduce the temp.

My truck has 2 inch off the turbo as it mated the flange and I had some serious bends to do prior to getting under the truck. But immediately below the engine I go to 2.5 inch.

LIke dougal says, fine tune it later. Enjoy the air it will breathe.

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by Dougal

You won't have EGT issues with a turbo fitted and no fuel increase. The EGT's will be a lot lower than stock.

That's only in the case that you haven't previous EGT issue .. with the " stock " settings ..

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by Tapage

That's only in the case that you haven't previous EGT issue .. with the " stock " settings ..

Pretty sure my EGT's are fine at sea level. No black smoke down there pre-turbo.

Thanks again for all the advice guys, I'll take it and leave the exhaust alone for now (Anya thanks you for that!).

Took the truck away today, and for it's first real drive back into town. Just as everyone says... it's like night and day. It's so weird to be able to accelerate uphill in Quito (10,000 ft). It's also weird to see no black smoke behind me at all, ever. It's got a lot more "Oomph" even straight off the line in first, and throughout the power band... I almost rear ended so many people on the way home! Also, before we left one of the guys put on a power steering belt, which we've gone without for months... as a result it REALLY feels like a whole different truck... I can power up hills and steer with on hand, instead of chugging up while hauling on the steering wheel with both arms and staring intently in the mirrors for black smoke!

I think my earlier complaints about low end boost were unfounded. I'm pretty happy with the results. The only 'flat spot' is changing into third on a steep uphill (around 2000 rpm) it doesn't drag me up like just before the gear change... I feel like with the WG set around 7psi and no change to the fueling, that's just where this setup is at and that's fine.


Also, the bill came to about $1700. That's way over the girlfriend budget so I had to remind him of his $1200 quote. He was good about it though and honored it to the $... I said some stuff about sponsorship and promotion to make him feel better about the whole thing. I don't mind saying it because they did good work and I'm happy to promote/recommend them. After all that he even took us out to lunch!

[joshoisasleep]

First real experiences with turbo install

OK, drove all day today on highway and offroad, topped 13,000 feet again this time with turbo.

The good: cruised at 13,000 feet pulling uphill in fourth sustainded with ease.

The bad: At sustained high engine output coolant temp starts to heat up after a while. It's gradual enough that I didn't notice it in several hours of intense city and light highway testing. Little hoses on injector pump keep blasting off, making engine go into Ultra Mode for a few seconds before I can jump out to stick them back into place.


I think I'm going to do the exhaust after all... maybe that will keep temps from rising. Man it's amazing how much power the engine can have when you change the air/fuel mix. The first time one of those little hoses blew off I was cruising steadily uphill at a solid pace, more or less maxed out in 3rd... all of a sudden I was thrown back in my seat and it felt like I was being blasted uphill! And yes I know that's bad...