How to "kill" a 3B

[Texas bj-42]

Well the title may be misleading. I have removed my EDIC and I need a better wat to cut the motor off. I would like to put a butterfly in the air intake flow to kill it.Is there a difference in killing it by removing fuel or air? Will it hurt it to starve it of air?Thanks.Justin

[Tapage]

I'm not sure if should function or not .. but making a king of rod that allow you " kill " the 3B from the IP sound much more easy to me.

[ohrly?]

make a reverse cable that will pull it to the front to ccutoff ur fuel,

[rapovt]

controlcables.com has all kinds of cables. Works great on my 2H

[Texas bj-42]

I have put a fixed but adjustable linkage in place of the EDIC. This will make a pull cable for the fuel more complex.I have a RHD and the air intake is directly in front of my seat. A direct cable to a butterfly there will be easy... I just need to make sure it will not hurt the motor.Justin

[brownbear]

******

Just either get a properly working edic to install, or make a nice control cable to kill it.

Honestly FWIW I would only have a edic system working. They are nice. If mine breaks it will be replaced.

[Texas bj-42]

I have completely rewired the cruiser with Ancor Tinned wire and marine connectors. I tossed everything but primary wiring. How hard would it be to wire in a stand-alone EDIC harness?Justin

[MOTERRA]

i have a cable from a manual choke with a little bracket to hold it onto the inj pump..works good and mounted in the dash looks almost factory...

[lostmarbles]

Zoom in on post 840 in this thread Justin:

HJ47 welcome here? - Page 28 - IH8MUD.com Forum

But beware - If you haven't seen this thread before, you're likely to end up getting hooked and doing a lot of reading!

[shinny]

Originally Posted by brownbear

don't cut the air. It will over fuel it.

?? But thats exactly how the 13b-t shuts down. Or is my motor missing something.

[Granite Grinder]

Originally Posted by shinny

?? But thats exactly how the 13b-t shuts down. Or is my motor missing something.

13b-t, 12h-t, 2h (auto)
I believe these all use VSV. Which is just a fancy way to close a butterfly valve in the air intake to kill the engine.
GG

[Henry James the 47th]

Originally Posted by shinny

?? But thats exactly how the 13b-t shuts down. Or is my motor missing something.

x2

I was surprised at the 'over-fueling' comment, since Toyota uses this system on a number of engines/engine versions, as noted above.

[freebie]

My EDIC went over a year ago and I was stalling the engine to stop it until I installed a shut off cable. I picked up a t-handle locking cable for $25 and fabed up a mounting bracket in the engine compartment next to the injector pump. Works fine but it would be nice to have the EDIC relay back?
Just remember, if your injector pump is not shut off and the vehicle moves it could start and take off, diesel engines don't require any electrical source to run.

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by Granite Grinder

13b-t, 12h-t, 2h (auto)
I believe these all use VSV. Which is just a fancy way to close a butterfly valve in the air intake to kill the engine.
GG

The throtle body in my 2H ( EDIC controled ) it's complete diferent than any 12H-T that I've seen before ..

Comparision 12H-T



2H

[brownbear]

Originally Posted by Granite Grinder

13b-t, 12h-t, 2h (auto)
I believe these all use VSV. Which is just a fancy way to close a butterfly valve in the air intake to kill the engine.
GG

I am wrong then....

But I would tempted to say the same thing. I wonder if there is a difference between direct injected and indirect injected engines on this theory.

I have never looked closely at a 13b-t to see the VSV.... In my mind I always thought the VSV closed the fuel.....doh. I will have to look at my FSM to see the VSV description.

[lostmarbles]

Originally Posted by brownbear

I am wrong then.........

Yeah. I'm the same as you Brownbear. I'm having trouble with the concept of shutting the air to kill a diesel but it must be an acceptable way of doing things.

[prado t]

IT is a weird way I know, Granite Grinder is correct . I had to replace the sender on my VSV on the 13BT . Toyota sure made things complicated. They could have done without alot of those stupid parts and just have a fuel shut down like all other manufacturers of Deisels

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by brownbear

Honestly FWIW I would only have a edic system working. They are nice. If mine breaks it will be replaced.

Also my advice! The EDIC also gives protection in a low oil situation by shutting off the engine. I have a fully fuctioning EDIC system in the '55 as well.

[brownbear]

For Justin,
I think it would not be hard to wire an edic on it's own with out a harness. As long as you have the edic relay, motor and an ignition switch.

Then you just join the motor and the relay as they show in the diagram, and put power and ground to the relay. As well the low oil pressure cut off.

It would not be too onerous IMOP

[Henry James the 47th]

Tapage wrote:

"The throtle body in my 2H ( EDIC controled ) it's complete diferent than any 12H-T that I've seen before .. "

The 2H with auto transmission has the same sort of pneumatic-controlled governor as the 12H-T, though the intake manifolds are quite different, as are the glow systems. Both share the use of the VSV to shut the engine off by closing the intake butterfly.

I obtained a 2H from a truck with the auto trans, but swapped out the flex plate and installed a ring gear, etc, to mate the 4-speed H41 up. I had a choice, it seemed, between leaving the auto trans specific injector pump in place, or removing it and installing the manual trans type of injector pump with the EDIC system.

I was surprised by the comment by prado t,

"Toyota sure made things complicated. They could have done without a lot of those stupid parts and just have a fuel shut down like all other manufacturers of Diesels"

I sure seems to me that a single VSV to shut the engine down is a somewhat simpler set than a fuel control relay and EDIC motor. The vsv is cheap and reliable, and they are used heavily throughout the Toyota range. Some are normally open, and some are normally closed. Early 40 series used vacuum switching with vacuum switching valves - I don't see them as 'stupid parts', though I can appreciate that when there are large numbers of them in the system, as you see in a Prado, it could be hard to track down problems caused by little leaks in the vac lines.

The fuel control relay is the weak link in the EDIC system and a common cause of problems down the line when it starts to pack it in. How much longer will these relays be available from Toyota, and at what price? I'm already finding it impossible to obtain early 1980's 40 series (and 60 series) glow relays, for example. That said, the EDIC system is otherwise quite reliable.

The tricky problem I had with the pneumatic governor and VSV control was alluded to in a post above,

"The EDIC also gives protection in a low oil situation by shutting off the engine"

With the vsv system, Toyota uses an engine management computer to deal with the low oil pressure switch, among numerous other functions I'm sure. I wasn't interested in locating a 12v. one for my truck for controlling a single function.

I eventually located a product out of Australia that does the job as far as the low pressure switch, the TM3 Engine Watchdog:

ENGINE WATCHDOG TM2, Engine Coolant Temperature Alarm, Gauge & Sensor

I'm sure that someone with knowledge of basic electronics would be able to solder up a simple circuit board to do the same thing as the TM3. I was able to rig up the TM3 to control my vsv quite readily; it can also be use to control a fuel shut off valve, or can be configured to power up a device instead of cut power. It's a pretty versatile doodad, and a lot cheaper than a new relay from Toyota.

[Texas bj-42]

The knowledge of this board always amazes me. On a tangent... I have been wanting to mount a 2" receiver below my pintle hook. The 47 link was GREAT. I am home with the flu so I have spent hours reading here.Justin

[shinny]

Originally Posted by lostmarbles

Yeah. I'm the same as you Brownbear. I'm having trouble with the concept of shutting the air to kill a diesel but it must be an acceptable way of doing things.

Not just acceptable - it's required where I work. Google "positive air shut off" for more.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by lostmarbles

Yeah. I'm the same as you Brownbear. I'm having trouble with the concept of shutting the air to kill a diesel but it must be an acceptable way of doing things.

As long as the fuel pump gets the message that there is no air and cuts the fuel, you should be fine.
Otherwise you'd be running the engine silly rich until it ran out of oxygen to burn.

[lowenbrau]

Originally Posted by Dougal

As long as the fuel pump gets the message that there is no air and cuts the fuel, you should be fine.
Otherwise you'd be running the engine silly rich until it ran out of oxygen to burn.

Shutting the air off will shut down the engine right quick even with 20 lbs of boost and a wide open over fueled injector pump. I do it about one time in ten on highway on-ramps when the airflow forces the shutter closed. Its a real pain and super hard on the turbo but I haven't found a better spring yet.

Shutting off the fuel is the better choice I think. Toyota got it right in the 3B connecting it to the oil pressure. That has saved my but twice when I tore oil filters off. You can also shut down the engine with the key if you happen to get it running in reverse (it goes to the rev limiter, regardless of throttle position and gets quite scary). You tend to be hurtling backwards down a tricky trail while in a forward gear. With an intake shutter you have to stall it in gear against the brake.

[brownbear]

I'm thinking the air shut down on the turbo motors might be of benefit if you had an oil leak from a turbo causing the eng to keep running uncontrolled. Like a seal let go. Where the engine eats it's own oil till seizes... LOL

I never before realized the VSV was an air control device. I always imagined it to be fuel....why I don't know. Probably cause I have not dug around a 13b-t

I've seen some very simple fuel solenoids on big equipment. That might even be better.

On airplanes, piston or turbine, we always cut the fuel to shut them down. Piston you have two choices..ignition or fuel cut off. Turbine only one choice, fuel. Not ignition, no starving it of air

[lostmarbles]

Originally Posted by brownbear

I'm thinking the air shut down on the turbo motors might be of benefit if you had an oil leak from a turbo causing the eng to keep running uncontrolled. Like a seal let go. Where the engine eats it's own o