Another 3B conversion

[lynchmob]

Heres the long story...

I picked up an FJ60 locally for my brother who lives near Chicago. The plan was to do some maint. and install an OME lift then drive it from Portland to Chicago - 2400 miles away. Its not easy to find a rust free cruiser of any model in that area.
Unfortunately (fortunately?) the more I dug into it the more problems I found with the engine. Ultimately I found bad compression on one cyl so I was faced with a rebuild.

I already had a 3B/5 speed that I was planning to put into a 60 of my own but I didnt want to part with it. Everything came together though when I found that crushers had a 1HZ/5 speed to part with. After a 3 day 1600 mile day trip to Calgary I now have a 4cyl available for my bro and a 1HZ for a future conversion of my own.

This is going to be an accelerated conversion. We WILL be driving this 60 accross the country on 11/17.

The 3B came from a converted FJ62 that someone here in Portland imported from Canada. The 62 was in really poor condition overall and the conversion was not done very well.

Here are some pics of the engine and the rig its going in.

[lynchmob]

more pics - engine is painted. I put most of the parts back on the block tonight. I hope to have it test fitted for the motor mounts this weekend

[BillyGHusk]

Thanks for posting this thread!

I feel I am fairly mechanically competent but the idea of tearing into an engine like that and the putting it in a different truck and getting it all to work seems VERY daunting to me. I love watching these threads go get a better idea of all that is involved.

Thanks again,

Tim

[lynchmob]

Test fit the engine this weekend and welded in the BJ60 motor mounts. Ill post some pics tomorrow.

Waiting on a new oil pan. I have to move the clutch slave to the drivers side, configure the water and fuel connections and put the engine in permanantly - then it should be ready to start up. I hope to have it ready to run by next weekend. Rain permitting as I am doing all this in my driveway.

Im using the stock 87 FJ60 trans cross member which is set up to deal with the 10 degree tilt that was added to the trans some time in 85. I put a shim on the passenger side to level it out and it fits well.

So far so good...

[brownbear]

awesome..... what's wrong with the original oil pan? Mine was a little rusty but not leaking so I POR-15'd it.

Put a pyrometer in this truck too so you can tune it for the drive. It will add a bit of pep and makes it easier to drive long distance.

You have a lucky bro doing all this good work for him.

[lynchmob]

Originally Posted by brownbear

awesome..... what's wrong with the original oil pan? Mine was a little rusty but not leaking so I POR-15'd it.

Put a pyrometer in this truck too so you can tune it for the drive. It will add a bit of pep and makes it easier to drive long distance.

You have a lucky bro doing all this good work for him.

For some reason a PO added a skid plate to the oil pan that is on it. They welded a plate along the bottom of the pan and the welds are eating through on the inside. It leaks badly and I didnt want to try to weld it. Thin metal is tough and my brother who is a welder said he has had trouble welding pans in the past. Something about oil saturation making it much easier to burn through and/or cause poor welds.

The engine appears to be rebuilt. There are marks on the con rods and it has good compression (410-420 PSI on all) . We were driving the 62 it was in and it ran well but a little warm.

I put new gaskets in where parts could easily be removed and painted it up. I should have a new governor diaphragm and thermostat this week. The diaphragm in it is toast and likely the cause of it running warm.

I think we will be putting a pyro in it though I didnt point that out as an expense to my brother yet.

[brownbear]

should not be too hard to find a decent oil pan. Put an ad up in the diesel classifieds. Exmollad might have one, or GanS.

[lynchmob]

Originally Posted by brownbear

should not be too hard to find a decent oil pan. Put an ad up in the diesel classifieds. Exmollad might have one, or GanS.

Yeah I had an add up (or hijacked someone elses). No response really . Had some exchange with one fellow in BC, but finally ended up getting it from SOR. Should be here wednesday.

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by brownbear

should not be too hard to find a decent oil pan. Put an ad up in the diesel classifieds. Exmollad might have one, or GanS.

Most Canadian pans are either leaking or will be real soon!! I replaced the one on my '60 4 years ago with a new one, OUCH!! The one on the '55 was so bad I had to find one locally here in Guatemala where rust is not an issue and that is fine too now.

I may have a spare 3B oil pan soon too!

[lynchmob]

Progress from this weekend.

The BJ60 mounts welded to the frame. Nothing new here really. This 60 is really clean so Im not doing a resto like some others that have posted their conversions. Ill have to touch up some paint under hood, but nothing serious.

[lynchmob]

More...

First one is a pic of the engine with some of the parts back on.

The second one shows the FJ60 trans cross member and the angle to account for the 10 degree rotation I mentioned before. Any FJ60 with the 3F bellhousing should have this rotation.

I added steel to the passenger side to rotate it back to neutral to match the 3B which has a straight output on the BH. The shims are just stuck in there for testing. Worked out to about 5/8 inch. The alternative was to make my own motor mounts to account for the rotation of the trans - I thought this was easier and I dont have any real issue with shifter alignment to the holes in the floor.

[lynchmob]

I got a break in the rain this evening and I was able to get the engine in. Yes it does rain in the PNW....

Hopefully Ill get some dry time this weekend so I can connect the water and fuel lines and fire it up. I still have a lot of little things to do.

[Dazza]

man, you make this sound very do-able


i have swapped a 2f in. how much more work is involved with a 3-b?

[Dazza]

it looks like, from reading the thread, that you bought a 3b and 5 speed(H55?), and used the existing transfer case from the fj60. is that right? (had to rotate motor mount setup to match 3b angle), new motor mounts...

other than that it seemed fairly straight forward... did I miss something?

did you have to do anything to the fuel tank?

[lynchmob]

Originally Posted by Dazza

it looks like, from reading the thread, that you bought a 3b and 5 speed(H55?), and used the existing transfer case from the fj60. is that right? (had to rotate motor mount setup to match 3b angle), new motor mounts...

other than that it seemed fairly straight forward... did I miss something?

did you have to do anything to the fuel tank?

Its not done yet.... Straight forward or not really depends on your mechanical experience and how many tools / skills you have. You can outsource the minimal welding if needed, other than that specialty its not extrememly diffucult. Lots of details.

There are several threads on here regarding converting and FJ60 to 3B. Look around a bit becuase there isnt necessarily a right or wrong way to do it. If you can use what you have available and make or source the rest your conversion may be a bit different than others. Here is one in a 62 http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/139849-bj60-fj62-turbo%3D-bjt62.html

That said , here is what Im doing.

I removed a 3B and trans/transfer from a poorly converted FJ62. I neglected to keep a few parts off that rig due to condition and some ignorance on my part.

The easiest way to go would be to have a BJ60 donor vehicle and just transfer parts as needed.

At a minimum you will need the radiator and fan shroud from a BJ60 in addition to an engine/trans.

Then..
- Run a new line to move the clutch slave cylinder from the passenger side to the drivers side.

The rest is variable as there are several ways to do all of them.

- The motor mounts from the frame. You can cut the FJ mounts off and re-mount them, but the angle of the surface where the rubber motor mount fits is different. You will have to adjust for this angle when you weld them back on or fabricate new mounts - easier to use mounts from a BJ60 which is what I am doing.

- Trans cross member. Im re-using the one from the FJ. The angle I mentioned was due to the bell housing - not the transfer. Later model FJ60s have the trans/transfer rotated by the mount to the bellhousing. For this reason, the trans cross member is angled to accomodate the rotation. This one is a toss up to me. The BJ60 trans mount fits under the truck a little different and I probably would have modified it if I had it. All I did was add a shim and use the FJ rubber mount to the trans.

- Throttle linkage - again several options. Easiest to get the entire BJ60 throttle set up, but you could use parts from a 70, or an FJ62, or figure something out at the junkyard. You need something with a cable.

- glow plugs. You need to wire in a stock system or a simple system to power the glow plugs

- Other Wiring. Possibly easiest to use the wiring harness from a BJ60. Its a lot of work to mess with the entire harness though. There is not much to modify with the existing harness depending on whether or not you will use the EDIC system.
Im modifying the existing harness so I need to modify the connection to the alternator, and I will be making modifications to incorporate the edic motor and relay system. I will also be making mods to connect the starter , the starter solenoid, and the tach.

- vacuum - use the vacuum canister from a BJ or make your own. You need a reservoir to connect to the vacuum pump on the BJ alternator and you will need to route a line to the brake booster from the canister.

- power steering. The power steering pump is on the other side in a BJ. Use the BJ lines, or put something together with other parts. Im using the pressure lines from an FJ62 as its pump is also on the passenger side.

- Water lines. This is probably different depending on your year 60 and if you have a rear heater.

- Fuel system. Several things. The fuel filler on an FJ has a restrictor to prevent someone from putting Leaded fuel or diesel in. You need to modify the filler or get one from a BJ. The FJ fuel system also has return lines which you no longer need so these need to be addressed. You need to add a primary filter that also acts as a water seperator/sedimenter.

- exhaust - you will need a new exhaust system.

I am using the complete air cleaner assembly from a BJ60


I probably forgot something above....

I have made more progress on this and will post pics in the next day or two. Still not running, but it will be soon.

[mel lowe]

Can't wait to see it finsihed......

Great job painting the motor.....

The 5 speed will make all the differnce on the road trip.

Your bro is gonna love it.

If you would, post up avg mpg from your trip.

[Dazza]

wow, thanks for the detailed response. sounds like I will need to find a garage for a month or so to do the swap, and a donor vehicle.(not just engine, tranny, etc.) maybe I can find a wrecked bj60 in canada that I can tow down and not pay an import fee on, who knows.

thanks again, great write up!

[lynchmob]

sorry for the lack of posts on this. I skipped taking pictures of the process of repainting some parts that needed it.

Here are some pics

first one is the "new" oil pan.

second two are the engine in and mostly complete.

[lynchmob]

progress continued

I got a lot done this weekend.

Finished up these:
water lines
fuel lines
fuel filter
alternator wiring
glow plug push button
accelerator pedal and cable install
adjustments to shift boots and floor panel.

I need to put the hood back on, wire the tach and wire the edic relay when I get it - then I need to install the OME lift and FJ62 axles - and exhaust and and and.... Hopefully this will all be done before next weekend.

Pics of the pedal conversion. I used an FJ62 pedal and cable assembly. I have a BJ60 setup on the way, but I cant wait for it to get here. Also some pics of the glow plug button. I used a BJ60 relay and wired it in to the choke circuit. The choke light comes on when you press the button - I think others have done it this way.

[lynchmob]

here is the pedal and cable.

To mount the pedal I used the mount from the 60 pedal as a base and welded the 62 pedal mount to it. The cable mounts through the firewall in a spot that was probably designed to fit the cable for a 3F. Just line it up and drill three holes. I was able to use the hand throttle from the 62 setup as well.

[lynchmob]

The 60 is mobile now. Ill be dropping it off for exhaust tomorrow.

[lynchmob]

Ive been driving the rig around town all week and put about 200 miles on it. My brother arrived here in Portland Thursday night and we have been working non stop to tie up loose ends

In the past few days we installed water, oil, and pyro guages permanently.
We also built a wire harness for the edic (between edic motor and edic relay). We spent a bit of time on this partly because I re-assembled the edic motor incorrectly. I had to take a working one apart to compare and got it working.

EGT has been a little high. Its easy to get to 1200 so we may turn it down a bit. There has been no smoke at all and oil pressure is great.

Last weekend I installed an OME lift and 33x12.5 tires with new rims. At this time I replaced the front axle with one from an FJ62 and replaced the rear diff with 4.11 from the same 62.

Tomorrow we leave for the 2400 mile trip from Oregon to Indiana.

Here is a pic with some temporary 32" tires on it. Ill post some pics of other parts of the process after the 25th.

[brownbear]

Awesome......way to go converting!

1200 is pretty easy in a non turbo 3b. Just dial the fuel down a bit. The stop at your edic arm is where to do it. you will see the big nut and flat head screw. In makes it cooler I think, out increases.. but I may be confused. Been awhile since I fiddled with my fuel.

[mel lowe]

drool-


Looks great.


I hope to have a lift and a 5 speed one day.


Have a safe trip and a Happy Thanks Giving.

[lynchmob]

Well the rig made it with no real issues. 2275 miles or so. We had a little water leakage around the thermo housing and from some bad top seams on the radiator, but it wasnt enough to cause an issue. There was also a little oil leakage from the oil lines near the oil filter and the rear main, but again nothing serious.

We adjusted the fuel down one full turn after the first tank in central OR. It was running too hot on the EGT. We later adusted it back up 1/2 turn after we passed the the highest point of the trip (8600 ft) in eastern Wyoming near the halfway point of the trip. Roughly half the trip was uphill.

Our mileage over the whole trip was just under 19 US gallons/mile. Ill post details later.

There are some issues that I would like some feedback on.

1. The engine idles very rough between 750-950 RPM. Its enough to make the steering wheel rattle. If you set the hand throttle at 900 + its pretty smooth.

2. This setup has NO POWER in the top end. We had a tough time maintaining 65 mph which was about the max top speed we could do . It seemed as if the top speed was directly controlled by the adjustment of the fuel stop on the pump ( which makes some sense). 65 mph in fifth gear put us about 2300 RPM.

I have had two other 3B powered cruisers for almost 10 years and they both have much more top end than this setup currently does - with lower EGT.

The 60 weighed 5900lbs with us, fuel and the load we were carrying. Last summer and many summers previous I have taken my BJ75 on 1500 mile expeditions with loaded weight as high as 7100lbs and had no trouble doing 70-75 mph with little trouble with EGT (and a 4 speed trans to boot) . My 75 is a similar setup with 33x10.5 tires and 4.1 gearing.

What should we look into? There has been no smoke from the 60 conversion. The engine tested at 410-420lbs compression. The only thing we have not checked is the injectors, but I would suspect smoke with the EGT we were getting if the injectors were bad. Could it be that the injector opening pressure is too low and causing an issue with timing? We did check the pump timing per the FSM and it was dead on.

Thanks

[deaddrift]

BTT -

this rig is currently for sale and feedback on these problems and their resolution might be appreciated by many - as well as being helpful to the seller and eventual buyer.

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by deaddrift

BTT -

this rig is currently for sale and feedback on these problems and their resolution might be appreciated by many - as well as being helpful to the seller and eventual buyer.

Did you end up having the injectors or pump looked at? I suspect this is close to being a good runner as there is no smoke or oil usage(assumed)