[lshobie]

Dyno's are fun!

[Tapage]

Luck .. nothing to do here dude .. you goes in the right way and make top upgrade in your engine .. sure the results gonna be impresive ..

keep us posted !

[matt.mcinnes]

Matt.McInnes
Spent the evening calculating Turbo outlet temps for the Garrett GT3082R @ 70F/21C ambient and from what I can work out at 9psi the outlet temp should be around 180F/82C at 15psi the outlet temp rises to 227F/108C.

Well after a day on the Dyno and at 9PSI setting the fuel map and timing the inlet temp does not exceed 104F/40C

Power is 155rwKw/208rwHp@5000rpm don't have the torque numbers yet. I will hold and test at this for now as I really don't think I will need any more power and have more reliability as a result.

The ambient temp was around 52F/20C. Temp at the air filter in, was around 104F/40c it's a lot warmer under he bonnet/hood.

I have yet to get a thermocouple on pre intercooler as well as boost gauge so we can see the before and after results in black and white, but so far it looks very promising, if the inlet temps I calculated are correct then we are dropping around 76F/25C out. It would be nice to test it further by pushing the boost but for now I'm very happy where I am.

The engine temp sits on a constant 194-199F/90-93C so thats looking good too.

[Dougal]

Excellent to hear.
Most importantly, everything went smoothly. How nervous were you beforehand?

155kw at 5000rpm is 296Nm. But that's engine torque translated to the wheels, if you've got 35% driveline loss (that figure plucked from thin air) then you'll have 455Nm at the crank.

Some dynos are smart enough to calculate a driveline loss from coast-down. Others just throw in a rough figure. RWKW is what really matters, you've got plenty and possibly room for more.

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by Dougal

Excellent to hear.
Most importantly, everything went smoothly. How nervous were you beforehand?

155kw at 5000rpm is 296Nm. But that's engine torque translated to the wheels, if you've got 35% driveline loss (that figure plucked from thin air) then you'll have 455Nm at the crank.

Some dynos are smart enough to calculate a driveline loss from coast-down. Others just throw in a rough figure. RWKW is what really matters, you've got plenty and possibly room for more.

I went home at 3000RPM on the Dyno it was jsut tooooo much.

Last 10 sec is just before I left is just wooooohoooooo, sounds a little poor from the digital camera.

[Tapage]

Congrats dude .. I would expect more powa in a real run .. with real air ( ambient ) flow into the engine bay ..

[lshobie]

Very cool! Do you have a print out to post?

[matt.mcinnes]

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by Dougal

Excellent to hear.
155kw at 5000rpm is 296Nm. But that's engine torque translated to the wheels, if you've got 35% driveline loss (that figure plucked from thin air) then you'll have 455Nm at the crank.

I have a little more than your gestimate

642Nm @ the Rear Wheels

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes

I have a little more than your gestimate

642Nm @ the Rear Wheels

Awesome.

Is there a thread here for dyno charts? There should be.
What I'd really like to see is the same vehicle done on a roller dyno and then a hub dyno to see what difference the tyres make.

[rchalmers3]

Originally Posted by Dougal

.........I'd really like to see is the same vehicle done on a roller dyno and then a hub dyno to see what difference the tyres make.

Why? What purpose would that serve?

Rick

[matt.mcinnes]

Tuesday I'm off to buy a second air temp sensor which Awill4x4 will tig a holder to the inlet side along with a second point next to it to check the air pressure.

This will give us hard numbers of Air Temp and Air Pressure pre and post intercooler. From these we will be able to see the pressure drop and temp drop and it's true efficiency.

The Wolf V500 has the advantage of been able to plug the lap top in and data log runs on either road or dyno. So I can recorded and review the results.

Stay tuned were not finished yet

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by rchalmers3

Why? What purpose would that serve?

Rick

It takes the tyres out of the equation.
Depending on the roller/tyre combination you can lose a lot of power to noise and heat which may not happen when the vehicle is driven on the road or track.

Basically change your tyres and it can make a big difference to the dyno reading. Hub packs avoid that.

[ozwallaby]

Please excuse my behind the timeness.... but I see dyno printouts these days (and for some time) show kph (mph) readings in stead of the old fashioned rpms along the bottom. Does anybody know why this has changed... or why they don't show both readings (rpm and speed) along the bottom? Good work Matt... and as an old engineering boss of mine used to say "in god we trust... all others bring data..."

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by ozwallaby

Please excuse my behind the timeness.... but I see dyno printouts these days (and for some time) show kph (mph) readings in stead of the old fashioned rpms along the bottom. Does anybody know why this has changed... or why they don't show both readings (rpm and speed) along the bottom? Good work Matt... and as an old engineering boss of mine used to say "in god we trust... all others bring data..."

RPM and km/h are interchangable if you know all the gear ratios in-between. I suspect most dyno operators don't so that's the default.

The only vehicles I've seen dyno'd live were on hub-packs. They stuck a clamp lead on a spark plug and run the engine at 3000rpm to calibrate the dyno. Once they know the overall drive ratio it's run and plotted with wkw vs rpm.
The other advantage of hub dynos is no slippage. With a rubber wheel on rollers the actual rolling radius isn't quite your wheel radius.

[ozwallaby]

Originally Posted by Dougal

RPM and km/h are interchangable if you know all the gear ratios in-between. I suspect most dyno operators don't so that's the default.

The only vehicles I've seen dyno'd live were on hub-packs. They stuck a clamp lead on a spark plug and run the engine at 3000rpm to calibrate the dyno. Once they know the overall drive ratio it's run and plotted with wkw vs rpm.
The other advantage of hub dynos is no slippage. With a rubber wheel on rollers the actual rolling radius isn't quite your wheel radius.

Yes I understand the hub type dynos and I do like them more than the tyre type dynos.. as you mentioned, it takes another variable out of the calcs. I just didn't know if there was a "real" reason to change to something that I thought was quite satisfactory... ie rpm v mph .. thnks for the info

[matt.mcinnes]

Had a run into work tonight and warmed the Turbo up frightening the living daylights out of a Ford XR6 and Commodre V8 racing each other off the lights just before I got to work.

The inter cooler when I arrived at work 2 min later was toasty warm on the intake sdie and you could keep your beer chilled on the out

Ambient temp was 5C can't wiat to get the sensors on it's looking real good.

[matt.mcinnes]

All ready to tig on to the inlet to the intercooler.

The Wolf EMS's input for the external MAP sensor can be reconfigured to check air temp so on the data logging I should be able to run and record on the same graph both pre and post air temp side by side. Also the same should be possible with the MAP if I buy and external sensor. The only draw back been I can not do both air and Map at the same time, although I can do both air and one MAP.

Awill4x4

[awill4x4]

Yeah, Yeah, I get the hint Matt . As they said in the "price is right" "Matt Mcinnes come on down".
Regards Andrew.

[matt.mcinnes]

Popped down to Awill4x4 today for a little Tig time.

Tks Andrew and hope you Enjoyed the ride

Now I can measure pre and post intercooler, once connected up.. Also braced the rear intercooler radiator.

[Tapage]

dude ... please another shot of your engine bay please .. I should print it and show to Tencha, maybe she learn how she need to looks always ..

[awill4x4]

Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes

Popped down to Awill4x4 today for a little Tig time.
Tks Andrew and hope you Enjoyed the ride
Now I can measure pre and post intercooler, once connected up.. Also braced the rear intercooler radiator.

Yes, I enjoyed the ride very much Matt, it certainly surprised me just how quick it really is, it justs gets up and boogies very nicely.
It'll be great to get some accurate temp and psi figures pre and post intercooler but seeing how cool it was after you fanging it down the road a few times I think it's working very well indeed.
We've just got to convince Darren now
Regards Andrew.

[Dougal]

What are those sensors and where do you get them?

[matt.mcinnes]

The one on the left is a 1/4BSP Allen Cap grub screw which will be replaced by a 1/4bsp hose tail connected to an external 2 Bar MAP sensor.

The Wolf V500 can then data log this side by side on the same graph with the internal MAP sensor.

The second is a A/C Delco SCR-12V-3 air temp sensor, the same as the post intercooler sensor all ready fitted.

This then too can be data logged real time.

[matt.mcinnes]

Ok both temp sensors are now operational but my lap tops battery is shot so I can only connect in the garage. Marin will be up this eveing after work with his for some real time data logging.

Early signs however are after a run out and back to the garage are good. The Per intercooler temp is 51c Post 26c ambient 13c

[matt.mcinnes]

I've been testing NOT Hooning

Pre inter cooler cruising temp is 50C/122F
Full boost rises to 82C/180F

Post inter cooler cruising temp is 25C/77F
Full boost rises to 31C/87F

Note the heat rise was only on the second run first run showed a 1C drop post intercooler. After 5 runs no post intercooler temp over 31C/87F

Ambient 12C/53.5F

Calculated Temps are spot on too

Spent the evening calculating Turbo outlet temps for the Garrett GT3082R @ 70F/21C ambient and from what I can work out at 9psi the outlet temp should be around 180F/82C at 15psi the outlet temp rises to 227F/108C.

The photo of the graph below shows 2nd to 3rd to 4th

The Red line in the top graph is Pre intercooler temp, I am using the external map sensor input to read it so the scale is wrong, you have to multiply it by 1.82
Yellow is correct, Post intercooler. hope that makes sense.

[Tapage]

Damn .. you are droping huge range ºC thought your ambient temp helps a lot .. but the air that it's getting your intake it's freaking cold !

[Dougal]

So your intercooler effectiveness = actual temp drop/total temp difference

Cruising.
(50-25)/(50-12)
= 66%

Giving it death.
(82-31)/(82-12)
= 73%

That's a very good result. Do you know what your cooling water temp levels out to?

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by Dougal

So your intercooler effectiveness = actual temp drop/total temp difference

Cruising.
(50-25)/(50-12)
= 66%

Giving it death.
(82-31)/(82-12)
= 73%

That's a very good result. Do you know what your cooling water temp levels out to?

No idea what the intercooler water temp rises too.

Later runs saw the intake temp drop to 23C and max out at full boost 29C as the night air cooled even more. But 29C is short lived.

A water wetter should see the above improve a little too.

I think the more boost the more efficient it will become as it soaks more heat up.

[matt.mcinnes]

Well just one job left to do, something that should have been thought about at the start but as we all know you always miss the simplest things

Going to drill and fit a small bleed nipple to one end of each of the end caps to remove the air from the the system this should help with the heat exchange too. Then it will be even better

The Snorkel should also see intake temps drop closer to ambient as it's dam hot under the bonnet.