[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by Gold Boy

this type of intercooler system must of been demonstrated before by other folk?

Not a great deal, I found this for a Lotus prototype

APX�s engine is a supercharged 3 litre (2996 cc, Bore: 88 mm, stroke: 82.1 mm) V6 DOHC engine, mounted longitudinally in the front of the vehicle. It uses a Rootes-type supercharger with a compact air � to � water Laminova � type charge cooler with separate parallel coolant system using its own water pump and heat exchangers allowing a charge temperature reduction of approximately 50 degrees Celcius/122 degrees Fahrenheit.

Mines bigger

[Gold Boy]

how about a aux mini [very little power drain] aircon setup, and use that to cool the post turbo air?

[Gold Boy]

Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes

Not a great deal, I found this for a Lotus prototype



Mines bigger

well you live and learn.....

i like the simplicity of your idea.... and also the fact the intercooler does not take up much space.

[nickw]

Originally Posted by Gold Boy

how about a aux mini [very little power drain] aircon setup, and use that to cool the post turbo air?

He mentioned that in a response to my post.
Add air cond core to the same unit to run in conjunction with the air/water system.
That is a smart idea.

Better than mine of trying to further cool the water.
It would be a more direct system.
Wonder if its ever been tried.

Cheers,
Nick

[nickw]

So forgive my question.
But for a typical application, like city/highway power/towing power, an air/air would be best.

But for any application, where racing is an concern, or need to high power at low speeds air/water is best?

Both systems, of which could probably benefit from additional cooling.

Originally Posted by Gold Boy

i like the simplicity of your idea.... and also the fact the intercooler does not take up much space.

Still needs room for the rad and pump and lines.
In the end it will take more room, but be a much better fit for his application.

[Gold Boy]

Originally Posted by nickw

He mentioned that in a response to my post.
Add air cond core to the same unit to run in conjunction with the air/water system.
That is a smart idea.

Better than mine of trying to further cool the water.
It would be a more direct system.
Wonder if its ever been tried.

Cheers,
Nick

i wounder what the math formula is to work it out?

calling all engineers

[matt.mcinnes]

Air to Air in my opinion is fine if you have enough front surface area for your intercooler to cool your turbo. It's cheaper and simpler and can work well in the right application but it's not better just different

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by Gold Boy

i wounder what the math formula is to work it out?

calling all engineers

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html

Let me know when you work it out, mean while I'll just plug mine in and see what it does

[Gold Boy]

your reminds me of, one of these.

[Gold Boy]

Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html

Let me know when you work it out, mean while I'll just plug mine in and see what it does

i never liked math

[matt.mcinnes]

Worth a read, lists the Laminova cores as a GM part.


http://www.3800pro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8107

[Christian]

It has been a pleasure to watch this thread, excellent idea and fabwork!
But with the dry-ice and aircon ideas coming up, this seems to get complicated!
And while were are at the the far-out ideas, what about this one:

Get a divers compressor and diving tanks. Drop the turbo and run the compressed air from the tanks directly in to the engine, compressed air freezes when it escapes due to the pressuredrop. I know this setup would not fit any standard applications, but for dragracing or hillclimbing perhabs?

[Dougal]

The amount of power required in an airconditioning type setup is huge.
A small, low power drain system isn't going to make a noticable temp drop.

A 4 litre engine with 15psi boost at 2000rpm has to shed over 7kw of heat through the intercooler to get back to ambient.

Even if your first stage gets 60% of the heat out, your fridge unit has to pull out almost 3kw.

[Gold Boy]

very interesting

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by Gold Boy

very interesting

The site is a little disorganized, the info you need is in there but you need to download all the PDF's and pick through it. But i don't think they were intending it for people like me, I will say their R&D department is tops and are looking forward to my trials,

[nickw]

Originally Posted by Christian

Get a divers compressor and diving tanks. Drop the turbo and run the compressed air from the tanks directly in to the engine, compressed air freezes when it escapes due to the pressuredrop. I know this setup would not fit any standard applications, but for dragracing or hillclimbing perhabs?

One gets to a point, where they might as well run NOS for short sections at a time. I guess the other thing to consider, is the bottom end is probably stock, and can only take so much power anyways. But it does sound like a good idea. Would just have to rig up some system, so as engine RPM's rise, so does the amount of air delivered. Which I guess also makes me think. What sort of CF does a tank hold. And how many CFM will the engine use.

Originally Posted by Dougal

The amount of power required in an airconditioning type setup is huge.
A small, low power drain system isn't going to make a noticable temp drop.

A 4 litre engine with 15psi boost at 2000rpm has to shed over 7kw of heat through the intercooler to get back to ambient.

Even if your first stage gets 60% of the heat out, your fridge unit has to pull out almost 3kw.

Very true. Puts me back to the dry-ice/ice water thing. But that wouldn't last very long. And it's not very practical away from a ready source of ice.

I will have to think about this more. Very fun and interesting.
The key is probably in efficiency of the system.

Cheers,
Nick

BTW: Dougal, I like your sig. A friend of mine is a civil engineer working on a hydro dam right now. He loves it (for the most part).

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by nickw

I guess the other thing to consider, is the bottom end is probably stock, and can only take so much power anyways..

NUP Full custom cradle to strengthen bottom end been built

[nickw]

Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes

NUP Full custom cradle to strengthen bottom end been built

How much did that set you back?
And how much will the whole engine cost by the time your done (if you don't mind me asking)?.

I see in your sig line, you where hoping for 400hp. Think you're on target for that?
Also just curious, have you considered adding nos (for that extra thick mud? Or would that be to much power, and you would start breaking things).

Also, what made you decide to build the 2F?
Ever think about going to a different engine?
(small block v8 chev or Supercharged 4.7 Toyota perhaps)

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by nickw

How much did that set you back?
And how much will the whole engine cost by the time your done (if you don't mind me asking)?.

I see in your sig line, you where hoping for 400hp. Think you're on target for that?
Also just curious, have you considered adding nos (for that extra thick mud? Or would that be to much power, and you would start breaking things).

Also, what made you decide to build the 2F?
Ever think about going to a different engine?
(small block v8 chev or Supercharged 4.7 Toyota perhaps)

1 Still waiting on final cost.
2 15,000 Aus Est (givenupcounting)
3 Yes
4 Not allowed for competition.
5 I like beating V8's with a 2F and it's a Toyota, it belongs in a 40

[matt.mcinnes]

One thing to remember with this system is it's cooling just as efficiently at idol as it is at full noise.

The final numbers at testing will be interesting, but don't you just hate waiting to find out

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by nickw

BTW: Dougal, I like your sig. A friend of mine is a civil engineer working on a hydro dam right now. He loves it (for the most part).

Thanks. I stole it from an engineer on another site.
I'm mechanical type, have done some hydro-electric work and considering going back to it.

[matt.mcinnes]

Well from my drawing Dave good friend and Navi came up with this and it's in one piece. Just need to sort a radiator out now with a thermo fan 12" I think, so we have the size for the piping.



My excuse is I don't have CAD on my Mac

We also elected to cool the Turbo from the slightly warmer engine cooling system rather than the chilly intercooler.

[matt.mcinnes]

Spent the evening calculating Turbo outlet temps for the Garrett GT3082R @ 70F/21C ambient and from what I can work out at 9psi the outlet temp should be around 180F/82C at 15psi the outlet temp rises to 227F/108C.

Now if the intercooler is as good as I hope we should be looking at some good results.

If I have done my math right and built an intercooler that works.


Calcs using this.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes

Spent the evening calculating Turbo outlet temps for the Garrett GT3082R @ 70F/21C ambient and from what I can work out at 9psi the outlet temp should be around 180F/82C at 15psi the outlet temp rises to 227F/108C.

Now if the intercooler is as good as I hope we should be looking at some good results.

If I have done my math right and built a intercooler that works.


Calcs using this.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html

For 70% efficiency my spreadsheet brings out almost the same numbers (81 and 113 deg C).

Can't wait for the intercooler outlet temp measurements.

[nickw]

Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes

My excuse is I don't have CAD on my Mac

We also elected to cool the Turbo from the slightly warmer engine cooling system rather than the chilly intercooler.

I am a mac user too (since about 94). Use them at work all day. You could run any windows app you want via parrells, and coherance. Fits right in. But you might not want to. Or you could go the "old fashion" way with bootcamp.

Also, it makes good sense to leave the turbo on engine coolant lines. I was wondering if the intercooler system could keep the water cool, as well as the turbo. Not to mention the cracking issues.

Cheers,
N.

[nickw]

Hey Matt,

Any updates on the intercooler?

Cheers,
N.

[matt.mcinnes]

All quite now until it's fitted, will make the water splitter up over Xmas.
New engine should arrive 21st Dec. Will also source a radiator and Thermo fan.

So all I can say is watch this space in 2008.


Until then Merry Xmas and a HAPPY NEW YEAR

[matt.mcinnes]

Ok getting there, engine was delayed but sometime next week should see it fitted. Then onto fitting the intercooler and Turbo Manifold and all the pipe work.

But for now the mountings are sorted, just need to get Awill4x4 to weld them on. So we have something like this.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes

But for now the mountings are sorted, just need to get Awill4x4 to weld them on. So we have something like this.

Uh-huh, that makes sense. Awill4x4 has some nice stuff showing on outerlimits at the moment too.

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by Dougal

Uh-huh, that makes sense. Awill4x4 has some nice stuff showing on outerlimits at the moment too.

His welding is second to none the guy is a genius.

I would not take my welding any where else.