What's your favourite diesel muffler for a BJ60?

[peterdouglas]

Next month's project/upgrade (and hopefully last big spending spree for a while) is a new exhaust system, front to back. The one that's currently installed is obviously aftermarket and patched up in several places, but some of the patches are leaking. A few months ago some of you guys mentioned you're running OEM parts, and some aftermarket, but I'm just looking to follow up on that with some details of the aftermarket mufflers.

The prices from the Toyota dealer for OEM exhaust parts were about $97 for the front pipe, $117 for the intermediate and $297 for the muffler and tailpipe. The front and intermediate pipes are reasonably priced, and might be stainless steel (haven't been able to confirm that). But the muffler and tailpipe are quite expensive. Is it worth getting them anyways, or do you guys have a favourite muffler? Is the OEM muffler really worth that kind of money? (someone here said it's HUGE)!

I went to a custom exhaust shop yesterday and the guy said he could custom make the entire exhaust front to back for about $600 installed. But he wants me to come back next week to get his guy to confirm it. I forget what kind of muffler he suggested, but it was a good one for diesels he says. As long as it's not too much louder than stock! A few months ago, another place quoted me $1000 over the phone. Other places didn't seem interested in it. Do you think the $600 aftermarket exhaust is the way to go? Or all OEM for about $500 + installation? Or maybe an OEM front and intermediate pipe with an aftermarket muffler and tailpipe? Logic would indicate that OEM pieces fit just right (unlike my current pipes which have wicked bends and are probably a bit restrictive). The guy at the muffler shop didn't have much faith in OEM exhaust, or maybe that's because he wanted to sell me his stuff?

[peterdouglas]

Oh, and what about having the exhaust exit at the side? Aside from obvious clearance benefits for off-roading, is there any other benefit, or drawback to this? An aftermarket muffler and tailpipe would likely need to be used.

I'd like a muffler just as loud as stock, or will even settle for something slightly (but not excessively) louder than stock.

[Adam B]

I think a big advantage to having the exhaust exit on the drivers side is that you can SEE the smoke. This gives you a much better idea what's happening and when. If you are messing around with your injector pump (which you either already have or will do) then you can immediately see the effect, either out the window or through the side mirror. You can't see it very well out the rear-view.

[shinny]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the consensus was that the factory exhaust, certainly on a 13bt but also on the 3b, is constrictive. You should be able to get an extra couple ponies with a larger tube, even on a naturally aspirated 3b.

[peterdouglas]

Originally Posted by Adam B

I think a big advantage to having the exhaust exit on the drivers side is that you can SEE the smoke. This gives you a much better idea what's happening and when. If you are messing around with your injector pump (which you either already have or will do) then you can immediately see the effect, either out the window or through the side mirror. You can't see it very well out the rear-view.

Haven't yet had to mess with the injector pump, and hopefully not for a while, but that's a good point. With the exhaust exiting at the rear, I can rarely see it. I also wouldn't have to worry about diesel soot stains on my garage door anymore (just on the car parked next to me instead)

Originally Posted by shinny

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the consensus was that the factory exhaust, certainly on a 13bt but also on the 3b, is constrictive. You should be able to get an extra couple ponies with a larger tube, even on a naturally aspirated 3b.

That's a good enough reason to go with an aftermarket exhaust. It will almost certainly be cheaper to buy, and if it's less restrictive, that's a definite bonus! What about the front and intermediate pipes... is the OEM diameter OK? I was thinking of getting those two pieces OEM and then an aftermarket muffler and tailpipe (still not sure which brand of muffler to get).

[83bj60]

Originally Posted by peterdouglas

Next month's project/upgrade (and hopefully last big spending spree for a while) is a new exhaust system, front to back. The one that's currently installed is obviously aftermarket and patched up in several places, but some of the patches are leaking. A few months ago some of you guys mentioned you're running OEM parts, and some aftermarket, but I'm just looking to follow up on that with some details of the aftermarket mufflers.

The prices from the Toyota dealer for OEM exhaust parts were about $97 for the front pipe, $117 for the intermediate and $297 for the muffler and tailpipe. The front and intermediate pipes are reasonably priced, and might be stainless steel (haven't been able to confirm that). But the muffler and tailpipe are quite expensive. Is it worth getting them anyways, or do you guys have a favourite muffler? Is the OEM muffler really worth that kind of money? (someone here said it's HUGE)!

I went to a custom exhaust shop yesterday and the guy said he could custom make the entire exhaust front to back for about $600 installed. But he wants me to come back next week to get his guy to confirm it. I forget what kind of muffler he suggested, but it was a good one for diesels he says. As long as it's not too much louder than stock! A few months ago, another place quoted me $1000 over the phone. Other places didn't seem interested in it. Do you think the $600 aftermarket exhaust is the way to go? Or all OEM for about $500 + installation? Or maybe an OEM front and intermediate pipe with an aftermarket muffler and tailpipe? Logic would indicate that OEM pieces fit just right (unlike my current pipes which have wicked bends and are probably a bit restrictive). The guy at the muffler shop didn't have much faith in OEM exhaust, or maybe that's because he wanted to sell me his stuff?

OK here's my take on mufflers, as I've had to change them several times on my BJ60s.

OEM is more durable because the pipe is aluminized and fits perfectly. If you can get everythng for the price you quote, get it. Custom may get you a larger pipe but as you saw, it can be very expensive. Also, the pipe doesn't necessarily last longer as often, they have to heat up parts and those will rust right away. Soundwise, OEM and aftermarket barrel type mufflers are pretty much the same.

I don't know who you are but looking at your avatar it would seem you are the sort of guy who's thrifty or on a tight budget ( ), if so and if you don't mind the side exhaust before the rear wheel well (possible only if the tub is perfectly perforation free, otherwise you'll get exhaust gasses inside), this is a much cheaper option and is quite durable, and it is very easy to install yourself. You get a 6" diameter by 22" long barrel muffler, a few 2" pipes, collars and hangers at Crappy Tire to run under the pasenger side between the frame and the rocker (perfect space for the muffler there) and voilà, done. All the parts can be had for less than $100 and the installation will last 2-3 years. If you want pointers doing this type of install let me know.

Oh and BTW a side exhaust with 2" pipe will have very little restriction, and if you want even less restriction you could go with a Cherry Bomb, but that is definitely MUCH louder, I don't recommend it.

PS I just found the muffler part number for the Crappy Tire muffler: 12-3027-2 made by Maremont in the US, their part number 102808. Last time I changed it (a few years ago) it was something like $40. Be sure to support the muffler very well with generic hangers because the inlet and outlet pipes are simply inserted into the muffler and if the pipe is not well supported in front and back of it it will loosen from the muffler body (I suggest you install a flex joint between the muffler and front pipe for an extra $40 to minimize this problem).

Also, I suggest you have the front pipe made at a shop, if yours is rusted out, but they usually last almost forever.

[peterdouglas]

Excellent, thanks! Yes, I am somewhat thrifty at the moment... but sometimes being too cheap can end up being more expensive in the long run. I need the entire exhaust, front to back. The side exit pipe seems like a good idea, although I do have some rust at the edges of the floor. My friend and I patched it, but only riveting some galvanized steel, so it's likely some exhaust fumes could enter the cab. I'll have to see about that, otherwise I'll have to make the exhaust exit in the stock location. Hadn't thought of that...

The truck needs to be ready for a road trip to BC in a couple of months, so some sort of new exhaust needs to be on there. Ideally something that will last, but if it needs to be something lesser that will need to be replaced in 2-3 years, that's what it will have to be. Unless the difference in price is minimal. That's a good point you made about the OEM pipes, they're already bent and won't need to be heated, which could cause rust to form in those places.

The Canadian Tire near me has that muffler (12-3027-2 made by Maremont, their part number 102808), but it's now $67.99 so it's a bit more now.

[RHINO]

maybe my prices are on the goofy side but,,,, i got a 3" exhaust made and used a magnaflow muffler. dont have the part number but its a stainless steel straight flow design with a nice feature, it has stainless mesh wrapped around the perf pipe so you dont blow out the fiberglass packing, its a lifetime warrantee and sounds real good. i actually cant hear the exhaust over the engine and turbo. the whole thing was under $200 made and installed while i watched. had the guy bring it out in this locale for optimum clearance and protection.

[Fromage]

Some related info that may or may not be useful...

Side exit is illegal as per Ontario highway traffic Act... This may or may not matter to you.

I was in the same boat about a month ago. Same truck, 84 CDN BJ60 in Ontario. The OEM exhaust lasted two years in Ontario salt. It finally fell off completely and I was left with two options - a 500$ set of pipes, or making something custom.

I built my own out of true mandrel bent 3 inch stainless steel (409) pipe, which I welded. I spent about 250$ on pipe on Ebay from a seller called Mandrel bending solutions. These are real mandrel bends with no distortion or crimping of the pipe - A lot smoother than muffler shop bends. The pipe comes in straight lengths of 4 feet with some bent up sections on a 6 inch radius, and you have to cut out the angles and cut the straight pipe to length, and then seam weld everything. It is a real pain in the ass to do correctly, it took me 8 hours of fussing. Total cost was about 300$, but I did all the work and I am really finicky when it comes to exhaust.

Due to the routing of the exhaust on the BJ60 (and the skidplate being a real PITA with no real clean routing solution except for stock) it is a lot of work to snake it around everything cleanly. This muffler shop might be good and do a nice job for 600$, but they might also run the exhaust straight back and it could hang low and become a ground anchor, or be a real hack job. Muffler shops sometimes do really awful work and they are often used to american cars with lots of exhaust routing room.

If I were you, I would make sure I am getting a really good system for 600$. Check out work that they guy has done to other cars. Ask local hotrodders for their opinions and recommendations. Make sure he has a tube bender on site and that he is not welding the angles in (this is too time consuming for most muffler shops to do correctly and for 600$ it would be a hack job). If this guy does not have a great reputation, get an estimate (not over the phone) from someone who does.

edit:

As far as materials, there is heavy-wall aluminized pipe that is available from most muffler shops that is very durable. You usually have to ask for it. Above that, you have 409 stainless, which is what I use. It is the cheap stainless. It does rust and turn to a gold/brown colour but it is much more resistant than aluminized pipe. The best is the polish-quality 304, which lasts forever, but to retain the properties you have to weld it in a very complex manner (gas purge on the inside of the pipe and MIG with correct wire or TIG) and it is SUPER expensive and time consuming. On a sooty diesel, that coats the inside of the pipes with black gooey sooty goo, the welds usually last a very long time even on 409 with the 'improper' welding procedure.

FWIW 409 is what the major OEMs such as Toyota use for catalytic converters and such. A lot of cars have 409 exhausts that last 10-15 years in Ontario.

The OEM Toyota is good because it is painless to install, but the pipes rust out quick here. If I was in your shoes, I would try and get a stainless custom exhaust built up for 6-700$ installed in 2.5 inch pipe, or go OEM and expect to replace it in a couple of years.

[cruiser_guy]

For those who knock OEM exhaust, do you know that Toyota will warrantee the system for as long as you own the vehicle?

Before I turbo'd my '82 BJ60 about 4-5 years ago I had the OEM system on it and it had been replaced by Toyota at least once. When I put the turbo on I went to 2 1/2" pipe and no muffler so the OEM system came off. I ended up putting the old OEM exhaust under an '84 BJ60 that I had at the time as my work truck. The '84 had an aftermarket system and the OEM was quieter and I think a little more power as well.

If you're keeping the truck and not planning on a turbo consider OEM as long as Toyota still has the warrantee going.

[brownbear]

that warranty makes oem have an advantage if it's still a program they have going. But they may want to install it too.


I would go 2.5 inch aftermarket. Normal muffler. Stock routing, and exit out the side behind the rear drivers wheel.

Then I would buy a pyro gauge. Then I would tune the fuel pump(mega easy) to 1250 max under wide open throttle loaded on a hill.

Your power will increase substantially. Then on hot days or when you climb up mountains you can watch the gauge to ensure you don't over heat on EGTs. You might have to adjust the pump for different places you live.

I found oem too restrictive. It held heat too long on hill climbs. I found that by watching the egts.



And the question was "whats your favorite muffler?" TURBO! no muffler please.

[peterdouglas]

Thanks for all the great info, guys!

Originally Posted by RHINO

maybe my prices are on the goofy side but,,,, i got a 3" exhaust made and used a magnaflow muffler. the whole thing was under $200 made and installed while i watched. had the guy bring it out in this locale for optimum clearance and protection.

WOW! That's a great price! I wish I lived in your area - I'd be over to that shop right away. Having the tailpipe exit just behind the rear wheel looks like a decent spot and should be legal in all areas. There are lots of vehicles that seem to have the exit exit in the location with their OEM exhaust.

Originally Posted by Fromage

Side exit is illegal as per Ontario highway traffic Act... This may or may not matter to you.

I was in the same boat about a month ago. Same truck, 84 CDN BJ60 in Ontario. The OEM exhaust lasted two years in Ontario salt.

I built my own out of true mandrel bent 3 inch stainless steel (409) pipe, which I welded.

As for the side exit exhaust, I think it might be OK if it exits behind the rear wheel, like RHINO did. I've also met Mud member Rig of Mortis in person and his BJ60 has something similar, IIRC. As for the Ontario salt, if all goes well, I should be in Kelowna, BC before the snow files (and staying there). There's not much snow or winter there, so anything metal should last longer. Your custom made exhaust sounds good. I hadn't thought of using 3" pipe, but that should make it a lot less restrictive.

Originally Posted by Fromage

Due to the routing of the exhaust on the BJ60 (and the skidplate being a real PITA with no real clean routing solution except for stock) it is a lot of work to snake it around everything cleanly. This muffler shop might be good and do a nice job for 600$, but they might also run the exhaust straight back and it could hang low and become a ground anchor, or be a real hack job. Muffler shops sometimes do really awful work and they are often used to american cars with lots of exhaust routing room.

Yes, you're right, there really isn't much room or choice for routing the exhaust pipes. The exhaust shop I went to was one of two shops recommended to me by a speed and custom shop. The exhaust place I got the $600 quote from is supposed to be an "import specialist" and he did seem quite knowledgeable. The other exhaust shop recommended by several people is at the other end of town. I will have to go there with the BJ60 next week and see what they say.

Originally Posted by cruiser_guy

For those who knock OEM exhaust, do you know that Toyota will warrantee the system for as long as you own the vehicle?

If you're keeping the truck and not planning on a turbo consider OEM as long as Toyota still has the warrantee going.

I'll have to double check on that warranty. The Toyota dealer is just 2 minutes down the road from me, so maybe I'll pop over early next week and ask about the warranty, and for how much they'd charge to install the exhaust. It seems like the stock exhaust is a bit restrictive, but I'm not planning a turbo anytime soon, and it must certainly be better than the mess of pipes I've got now with some wicked bends.

Incidentally, one of my friends has a 1997 Corolla that she bought in 2000 with 90,000 kms. We're pretty sure that was the original exhaust. Only now, in 2007, after 10 Montreal area winters and salt, and an odometer reading of 277,000 kms, is the exhaust starting to sound a bit noisy. Maybe the newer models' OEM exhaust is better quality than what they make for the Cruisers?

[peterdouglas]

Originally Posted by brownbear

I would go 2.5 inch aftermarket. Normal muffler. Stock routing, and exit out the side behind the rear drivers wheel.

Then I would buy a pyro gauge. Then I would tune the fuel pump(mega easy) to 1250 max under wide open throttle loaded on a hill.

Your power will increase substantially. Then on hot days or when you climb up mountains you can watch the gauge to ensure you don't over heat on EGTs. You might have to adjust the pump for different places you live.

This idea sounds like a good solution. Stock routing should ensure that there will be minimal resistance. I could even get OEM front and intermediate pipes. Then like you said, a normal muffler exiting behind the driver's wheel.

I hadn't thought of tuning the fuel pump... I take it you've done it and been pleased with the result. As for a pyro gage, any recommendations on a specific model? I probably should have one and have been putting it off since I got the BJ60. Since it wasn't something that prevented me from driving the truck, it always seemed to get put on my "things to do later" list...

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by peterdouglas

I hadn't thought of tuning the fuel pump... I take it you've done it and been pleased with the result. As for a pyro gage, any recommendations on a specific model? I probably should have one and have been putting it off since I got the BJ60. Since it wasn't something that prevented me from driving the truck, it always seemed to get put on my "things to do later" list...

I'd be careful about ANY pump adjustment unless you have a pyrometer. I've personally blown a 3B (dropped precup likely due to overheating) with the injection pump still set up as per factory! Now I have a pyrometer on every truck.

You may get a turbo sooner than you think if you're going to be in the B.C. interior!! It ain't flat like it is out east and going up the hills in third will get real tiring real fast!!

When you get to Kelowna check out the Coquihalla Connector out of Westbank. With the turbo I could pull that hill one gear higher than pre-turbo.

[peterdouglas]

Hmmm, maybe that pyrometer should be moved to the top of the list after all. I certainly don't want to damage my engine in any way. Do you have a preferred model, or are they all pretty much the same?

I suppose driving up all those hills will be a bit tougher on the truck. Turbo would certainly be nice, but is more of a luxury at this point. A pyrometer shouldn't be considered a luxury.

Thanks for the tip on the Coquihalla Connector out of Westbank.

[peterdouglas]

Hey, just wondering where I might be able to buy a Pyrometer? Besides eBay and jegs.com I can't seem to find anything online. What sort of store would be likely to carry these, and what should I expect to pay ($100 to $150 US seems to be what I'm finding so far, but nothing in Canada).

[RHINO]

if you have NAPA they carry a few from VDO, stewart and i think auto meter. or can order them from the local warehouse.

[peterdouglas]

Yes, I do have a NAPA nearby. I'll call or go in tomorrow and check if they have any pyro gages.

[cruiser_guy]

Online you can go to egauges.com. I have an Isspro in each truck because I like the color coded dial. Green is safe, yellow is getting hot and red is danger!! It's good for a quick glimpse.

[ylexot]

Brown bear: you really run with no muffler? I know the turbo will obstruct the exhaust flow and noise. How effective is it as a "muffler". I still plan to do the inverted manifold DIY turbo soon and am more than happy to save myself the cost of a magnaflo.

Rumor has it 2-5/8 gauges from AutoMeter fit in the tachometer spot on the 60 series dash, with custom mounting. I've thought about taking out my busted tach and putting a EGT in that spot. Any thoughts?