Factory 1HZT

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by Dougal

The noise and emission aren't about meeting euro or japanese emissions standards, it's about customer perception.

Yes I have googled the HZT, that's how I got those buses I showed above, did you see the one for sale in japan with a 1HZ and a turbo?

Nope but I have seen lots of aftermarket jobs

I'm curious as to where all this denial is coming from. We've got toyotas EPC which lists parts for these engines, we've seen HZ-T stickers, we've got Mellet listing replacement turbos for them and buses for sale from japan with this engine listed.

Which denial are you talking,about yours perhaps?
We have not seen a 1HZ T sticker. We have seen a representation of what one would look like if you got a 1HD T sticker and replaced the D with a Z or added a T to a 1HZ sticker

It's pretty clear that it was never factory fitted to a landcruiser.

Thanks for stating the obvious.

Yet we still have people unable to accept that this engine may exist.
It's almost like a flat-earth society gathering.

When did you start having these feelings everyone was against you?

[crushers]

some of us are more "hands on" than "there it is in black and white, so it must be true"...

YOUR world was flat, till some 'grunt' proved otherwise. THEN science proceeded to change it's beliefs.

[PacToy]

Originally Posted by crushers

some of us are more "hands on" than "there it is in black and white, so it must be true"...

YOUR world was flat, till some 'grunt' proved otherwise. THEN science proceeded to change it's beliefs.

What is a a grunt?

That just sounds funny coming from you!

[crushers]

a 'grunt' is anyone that works with his hands.
in your case a grunt would be a 'private' (i think that is the term)
a mech, sailor, cabinet maker, plumber, farmer, sawyer, electrician (although they seem to think they are better than the rest of us grunts).
i AM a grunt.

[PacToy]

Originally Posted by crushers

a 'grunt' is anyone that works with his hands.
in your case a grunt would be a 'private' (i think that is the term)
a mech, sailor, cabinet maker, plumber, farmer, sawyer, electrician (although they seem to think they are better than the rest of us grunts).
i AM a grunt.

LOLs

I thought you were talking about the B series engines.

I still ruck my shit where we need to go and I'm no private.

[Gerrit Loubser]

Originally Posted by tmarx

BTW welcome Gerrit

Thanks Theo. One thing is certain. The 1HZ-T (or rather the issue of its existence) seems to stir strong emotions .

[mac]

Dougal, have you heard a 1HD-T? They are anything but noisy, friend.

Either scenerio is possible. We all have typos in our FSM's. Just because a "brochure" lists a 1HZ-T as an option doesn't mean that it was a factory brochure or factory option. I could have a glossy "Toyota" brochure done up at my local print shop. Dealerships sometimes offer special packages and promote them this way. 80 series "collectors edition" comes to mind. On the other hand...

I don't think we can sum up Toyota's engine production based solely on what is offered in the few markets that most of us are familiar with. We don't have too many European or South American contributors and certainly few that are familiar with non-Cruiser engine applications.

What we really need is someone who knows- really knows. Toyota factory employee? Original purchaser? First hand testimony. Until then it's all speculation peppered with inflated egos.

Can someone tell me why it's soooo important anyway? Aren't there bigger issues in the world (even the 'Cruiser world) to get excited about?

[crushers]

Land Cruisers are like a faith, some will believe what ever they read (or are told), others need a miracle to believe.

[mac]

Originally Posted by crushers

Land Cruisers are like a faith, some will believe what ever they read (or are told), others need a miracle to believe.

Well, if you use that scenerio- REAL faith is based on evidence and is not blind and is not miraculous. Both sides of this 1HZ-T argument could be termed "blind faithful".

[crushers]

LOL!!
oh boy, you really do not want to get me started on religion and faith.. if so then lets head off to chit-chat.
no 'blind' faith is needed to NOT believe something...

[mac]

Originally Posted by crushers

LOL!!
oh boy, you really do not want to get me started on religion and faith..

Likewise...

sorry, back on topic- anybody built a 1HZ-T in a Toyota Factory? Anyone?...anyone?

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by mac

Dougal, have you heard a 1HD-T? They are anything but noisy, friend.

Yes plenty, you can't go anywhere here without tripping over a diesel 80. They're not loud, but the HZ's are quieter.
Have you seen the amount of sound insulation toyota fit directly to the 1-HD-FTE?

Indirect injection engines don't use excess fuel to start. Having a bus which doesn't blow a cloud of smoke over the people at the hotel waiting to get onboard is generally a good thing.
Rosco seems to have missed this point entirely as it is not related to emissions testing at all.

Whether toyota did this or not, I don't know. But at exactly the same point in time Isuzu switched two of their engines from direct injection to indirect. The 4JG2T and the 4BD2T.

Claiming someone has "chopped" an HD-T sticker to create an HZ-T sticker is a little far-fetched. Why would someone go to the trouble for an engine that didn't exist?

There are also a whole slew of "freak" vehicles which come out of japan with specs that shouldn't exist.
My work car is a prime example, it's a 2000 model 4wd diesel station wagon. Built by Nissan, badged Mazda and has a drivetrain layout that no-one at Mazda or Nissan has seen before.

Having said all that, the HZ-T may never have made normal production, but there's plenty of evidence to show that parts were designed, manufactured and entered into the EPC for it. Having people in Canada (which gets the diesel news from japan 15 years late) and Australia (which heavily restricts importation of jdm vehicles) who haven't seen one doesn't mean that much.

[crushers]

LOL!!
this is just too funny

this quote coming from a peep that has never seen one either and knows less about toyota diesels than those of us that he is trying to dominate...
we Canadians might be 15 years behind Japan in IMPORTING the JDM trucks, BUT some of us have been studying Land Cruisers hands on for longer than you have been on this god-forsaken earth reading your little books...
so some of us are more sceptical of ... odd ball claims ... and we want, as Rosco points out, the pudding of the matter.

Originally Posted by Dougal

Having people in Canada (which gets the diesel news from japan 15 years late) and Australia (which heavily restricts importation of jdm vehicles) who haven't seen one doesn't mean that much.

[roscoFJ73]

Indirect injection engines don't use excess fuel to start. Having a bus which doesn't blow a cloud of smoke over the people at the hotel waiting to get onboard is generally a good thing. Rosco seems to have missed this point entirely as it is not related to emissions testing at all.

Your missing the point here mister. A well tuned 1HD T does not blow back smoke over the customers.
We all know the in the EPC but there is no visual proof the engine existes or has existed so far.
As I have said countless times ,until some real proof shows up its pointless arguing it exists.

Originally Posted by Dougal

Yes plenty, you can't go anywhere here without tripping over a diesel 80. They're not loud, but the HZ's are quieter.
Have you seen the amount of sound insulation toyota fit directly to the 1-HD-FTE?

Whether toyota did this or not, I don't know. But at exactly the same point in time Isuzu switched two of their engines from direct injection to indirect. The 4JG2T and the 4BD2T.

off topic

Claiming someone has "chopped" an HD-T sticker to create an HZ-T sticker is a little far-fetched. Why would someone go to the trouble for an engine that didn't exist?

A computer chop is easy and the person who did it may have well believed he/she was doing the right thing.
Why dont you go in an order a 1HZ T sticker from your dealer?

There are also a whole slew of "freak" vehicles which come out of japan with specs that shouldn't exist.
My work car is a prime example, it's a 2000 model 4wd diesel station wagon. Built by Nissan, badged Mazda and has a drivetrain layout that no-one at Mazda or Nissan has seen before.

I agree ,but off topic again

Having said all that, the HZ-T may never have made normal production, but there's plenty of evidence to show that parts were designed, manufactured and entered into the EPC for it. Having people in Canada (which gets the diesel news from japan 15 years late) and Australia (which heavily restricts importation of jdm vehicles) who haven't seen one doesn't mean that much.

The guys in Japan have not come across any and the auction lists there do not list any factory turbos that I can find.
The workshop manuals from that era do not mention 1HZ T and I have looked in the ARL and GEN editions.
Like you said,it may not have got to the production stage.
Again ,we may have the recipe, but not the pudding

Send Toyota Japan an email and see what they say

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by crushers

we Canadians might be 15 years behind Japan in IMPORTING the JDM trucks, BUT some of us have been studying Land Cruisers hands on for longer than you have been on this god-forsaken earth reading your little books...

According to all the parts sources, this engine was never fitted to a landcruiser. It was some 93-96 Coaster buses.
So not finding it in a landcruiser shouldn't be much of a surprise.

[crushers]

now that is true...

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

Your missing the point here mister. A well tuned 1HD T does not blow back smoke over the customers.

Startup smoke isn't black, it's usually white/grey colour.
Even my work car which has a computer controlling injection quantity and timing blows smoke when starting in the cold. Three glow cycles help but it's still there.
In the warm it's barely noticable but the colder the air the more you see.

[lshobie]

Umm, if I remember correctly you can buy the 1HZ-T stickers from toyota japan - now maybe it is a typo but I am pretty sure you can. I was going to buy a couple for my turbo additions for the heck of it. Had the priced - but just decided not to.

I don't think they would have made a mistake on that - it is actually a decal that is pictured, not a typo in the description.

I don't really care either way though.

[mac]

Originally Posted by lshobie

I don't really care either way though.

Me neither...

[Gerrit Loubser]

I suppose debating the existence of some obscure Toyota diesel motor could be seen as quite sad... Nevertheless...

This debate is based solely on circumstantial evidence until someone physically finds this motor. If/when that happens, I suspect the finder will also have a hard time proving to the forum that what he found is the true article and that his proof has not been Photo-chopped.

So lets look at the circumstantial evidence that we have (as I see it):

• Toyota did design a 1HZ-T motor. The detail in EPC shows that this motor is a unique combination of parts from other engines and also unique parts. I think there is reasonably broad based agreement here that the detail in EPC is too much to be a mere typo/printing error.
• If the 1HZ-T motor was designed, but was stillborn, the fact that it made it into EPC is an anomally.
• EPC shows that the engine was intended to be used in Coaster busses and shows effectivity dates for its use in this application. It would not be very likely that EPC would have effectivity dates if none of the 1HZ-T motors were actually built and fitted to Coasters.
• Several aftermarket engine and drivetrain parts suppliers' catalogues show that they carry spares for the 1HZ-T powered Coasters (including some of the unique parts like pistons).
• We have seen at least one advert for a second hand 1HZ-T powered Coaster, although it might have been converted. More searching might turn up more (or not).
• It seems that the engine ID sticker can be purchased from Toyota.

To me it seem as though the balance of evidence is tipped towards concluding that the motor exists.

[crushers]

now all someone has to do is FIND the 'missing link'...