About VE, Flow Rates and Turbo Maps

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by pioneer411

how to see or count the intercooler efficiency? and how was the inlet air condition? in the spreadgraph writen as what > thanks

The only way to know intercooler efficiency for sure is to stick temp probes before and after it.
But a value of 0 is no intercooling, a value of 1 is perfect intercooling (cooled down to turbo intake temp). I use a figure of 0.6 most of the time.

Inlet air conditions are standard temperature and pressure. That's 101,300Pa pressure and 20 deg C. The temps are all changed to Kelvin, so they read 273 deg higher.

[pioneer411]

Originally Posted by Dougal

The only way to know intercooler efficiency for sure is to stick temp probes before and after it.
But a value of 0 is no intercooling, a value of 1 is perfect intercooling (cooled down to turbo intake temp). I use a figure of 0.6 most of the time.

Inlet air conditions are standard temperature and pressure. That's 101,300Pa pressure and 20 deg C. The temps are all changed to Kelvin, so they read 273 deg higher.

oh thanks, inlet air condition should be no need change it rite? because standard already, roughly.
then the spreadsheet u send me it was 0, its because no intercooler rite? thanks

and after put in all information, how to plot line to the turbo map?

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by pioneer411

oh thanks, inlet air condition should be no need change it rite? because standard already, roughly.
then the spreadsheet u send me it was 0, its because no intercooler rite? thanks

and after put in all information, how to plot line to the turbo map?

Yes that's right.
As for plotting the information, the spreadsheet gives the flow in all of the different units you'll expect to find. Just print out your turbo map and draw these points on it. Draw a line to connect the dots and you're sorted.

For the vertical axis, PR of 2 = 15psi boost, PR of 3 = 30psi boost.

[pioneer411]

Originally Posted by Dougal

Yes that's right.
As for plotting the information, the spreadsheet gives the flow in all of the different units you'll expect to find. Just print out your turbo map and draw these points on it. Draw a line to connect the dots and you're sorted.

For the vertical axis, PR of 2 = 15psi boost, PR of 3 = 30psi boost.

these is some i plotted for my friend isuzu 2.8 4JB1 engine and for my 12H-T engine, try to email back to u, threre got 2 version, and the turbo map, because i not so sure how to plot yet.

[pioneer411]

Dougal, i send u a email which included with the map of turbo. thanks

[rchalmers3]

Originally Posted by Tapage

My boost start at 1500rpm@ 5-6 PSI ...

At 2000rpm I get 10 PSI aprox .. 2800 rpm I'm getting 14 PSI ..

I thought I gotta weld the wategate actuaton in the turbine .. and see what happend .. any case I'm still out of 1000F

Tapage, Thank you for recommending this thread. Your research about your turbo install is exactly what I am studying.

Preguntas:

Will you please give us an update? What have you tested or changed?
Are you running the same KKK turbo and intercooler?
Did you fix the waste gate and test for max boost? Results?
What is your max temp now? Conditions for max?
What boost numbers are you achieving at 1000, 1500 and 2000 rpm?

Thank you man, it is great to have your participation on this forum.

Rick

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by rchalmers3

Thank you man, it is great to have your participation on this forum.

Rick

Thanks .. apreciate that.

1. Yes I keep the same setup, same kkk turbo and same intercooler, the only thing that I upgrade it's the BOV and more diesel.

2. I can reach a max boost 15 PSI right now .. but this it's running at 100km or more and pedal to the metal.

3. My EGT never go over 1200 not at least I've seen until now .. and that it's sun/hot/rain/night .. conditions, so no matther what I can't get enought diesel yet.

4. 10 PSI aprox @ 2000 rpm but it always depends on my overal speed .. due to my short gearing ..

5. No operative wastegate.

[rchalmers3]

Originally Posted by Tapage

It's the K26 it's pretty enought to deliver more boost and flow that my engine can hold ( or I want ) in fact 1.96 PR can deliver 14 PSI and 178.45 cfm that my engine need at 2000 rpm .. figuring 95% - 100% VE and archiving 70% - 72% of the eficience on K26 turbo .. add to this K26 still in the 135,000 max rpm line ...

So here you are saying you calculate your turbo can make 14psi and 178cfm @2000.

Originally Posted by Tapage

1. Yes I keep the same setup, same kkk turbo and same intercooler, the only thing that I upgrade it's the BOV and more diesel.

2. I can reach a max boost 15 PSI right now .. but this it's running at 100km or more and pedal to the metal.

3. My EGT never go over 1200 not at least I've seen until now .. and that it's sun/hot/rain/night .. conditions, so no matther what I can't get enought diesel yet.

4. 10 PSI aprox @ 2000 rpm but it always depends on my overal speed .. due to my short gearing ..

5. No operative wastegate.

And here you say you don't see the caculated boost @2000 due to gearing. Is that correct?

If you were to drive Tencha up a steep hill at 2000 rpm, would you ever see 14psi boost?

Rick

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by rchalmers3

So here you are saying you calculate your turbo can make 14psi and 178cfm @2000.

Yes .. that's the Turbo can do .. but what I've learned in this process and take in mind it's only based in my experience and few web readings ..

Build boost in a turbo engine, it's directly related with the amount of diesel that you can push in the engine and the efford that this engine are doing at specific time.

It means ( and I'm 100% psitive on it ) if would be posible to me deliver much more fuel at lower rpm, I where able to make more boost sooner in my powerband ..

Like iin the 1HD-T

Originally Posted by rchalmers3

If you were to drive Tencha up a steep hill at 2000 rpm, would you ever see 14psi boost?

Rick

sure yes .. if I'm over 100 km/h pedal to metal ..

[rchalmers3]

Originally Posted by Tapage

Yes .. that's the Turbo can do .. but what I've learned in this process and take in mind it's only based in my experience and few web readings ..

It means ( and I'm 100% psitive on it ) if would be posible to me deliver much more fuel at lower rpm, I where able to make more boost sooner in my powerband ...

I never thought the IP adjustment could be a limit for a small boost of 1 bar over atmosphere. In your opinion, is this situation special to Tencha?

Could there be losses of efficiency in your intake installation (or assumptions in VE) that you have not accounted for that affect the building of boost?

Believe me I am interested in solving this puzzle. Si la bomba injeccion esta el limitaccion por el produccion boost, es muy importanta a mi.


Rick

[Tapage]

There are 2 simple issues in the boost fact.

1. Load

2. Fuel

With fuel and no load .. are not really much boost that you can see in your gauge ... with load and no fuel you only going to see the amount of boost that can your turbo can build with this amount of fuel.

There is a point when you overfuel your engine and there is no more power, no more boost and only fast to the sky EGT. What I've seen it's the 1HD-T IP it's pretty much more capable to alow diesel than the factory ( or at least mine ) 2H IP ..

Maybe my IP it's tired and too old or simple I don't know how proper adjust the 2H IP ..

My intake ( including intercooler ) are anyway the most PRO setup that you can make .. it's a cheap home made setup that function for me ..

[rchalmers3]

So what now? Are you satisfied or will you change the pump for more fuel?

Rick

[Tapage]

Originally Posted by rchalmers3

So what now? Are you satisfied or will you change the pump for more fuel?

Rick

I'm happy with my setup right now .. I'm boosting heavy a 21.7 comp ratio engine up to 14 PSI that make it over 27:1 comp ratio .. and I don't wanna push my luck much more ..

Now I'm been hable to drive it WH 2500 rpm and only pushing 4 - 5 PSI that I like or drive around the city with real lower boost numbers .. that allow my engine work relax and more life expectation ..