Prado 2l-T Crank Angle Sensor... need info please!

CaribooPrado · 02-27-07, 10:35 PM

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum as a member but been browsing for a while....so finally my first post:

I bought a Toyota LandCruiser Prado EX5 Turbo Diesel EFI LHD about a year and a half ago and had to change the engine. It's finally all done and the LC is up and running again. Really the only problem was caused by not being able to use the crank angle sensor. Therefore my questions for you:
1.) What exactly does the crank angle sensor do?
2.) Does effect the fuel injection pump?
3.) Is it for pollution control?

The engine is running really well, the new engine imported from Japan was in great condition, low millage, but the LC has less power. Its not really noticeable unless going uphill, almost seems like the turbo is kicking in a little late or not with the full boost. The check engine light is on (the little amber light) due to the crank angle sensor not being hooked up.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I just can't seem to find the correct LC manual. The only one we have is not covering the EFI engine. The local Toyota dealership (where I have bought the LC) is less than helpful...

BJ-44 · 02-28-07, 04:35 PM

According to the manual the crank sensor gives a signal to the computer telling it when the engine is at top dead center. It works in conjunction with the engine speed sensor in the injection pump sending a signal to the comp. The computer uses these two signals to determine the volume of fuel needed. Without the speed sensor in the injection pump hooked up it will not run. I don't know about the crank angle sensor but looking at the diagrams it should not run without this signal either. If you do not have the crank angle sensor hooked up and it runs it must have a safe mode operation. Which means it will run but will not have normal power since the computer is not receiving all the signals it needs for proper operation. Why are you running it without the sensor hooked up?

BJ-44 · 02-28-07, 04:41 PM

http://www.showmesome.info/hilux/info/manuals/1KZ-TE/

not the same truck but same injection system

CaribooPrado · 02-28-07, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJ-44

If you do not have the crank angle sensor hooked up and it runs it must have a safe mode operation. Which means it will run but will not have normal power since the computer is not receiving all the signals it needs for proper operation. Why are you running it without the sensor hooked up?

Very interesting BJ44... almost suspected something like that: running in safe mode.

I have replaced the engine and the new "used" engine, I've imported from Japan had no mounting point for the crank angle sensor. Everything else was fine. The engine runs fine, except the power loss issue. It's mostly noticeable in low gear on steep hills. The turbo does kick in.

Thanks for the link to the manual, that's great!

BJ-44 · 03-01-07, 06:44 AM

If that pic is your new engine then it is a 2L-T not a 2L-TE (E) standing for electronic and they don't come with a crank angle sensor or electronic injection pump. A 2L-T has noticeably less power than a 2L-TE.

CaribooPrado · 03-01-07, 09:40 AM

Yes, that is the new one...
so everything might be running ok then and I'm just noticing the difference in power. Guess I'll drive it for a while and see if I can live with it.
One more question: Is the 2L-T just as prone to the head cracking and overheating issue as the 2L-TE engine?

CaribooPrado · 03-02-07, 11:39 AM

One more question re: Injection Timing for the 2L-T

The manual says:
2. Adjust Injection Timing
(a) Remove the cylinder block insulator
(b) Loosen the bolt holding the injection pump
(c) Loosen the 2 nuts holding the injection pump to the timimg gear case
(d) Align the punching line and upper processing surface by slightly tilting the pump
(e) Tighten the 2 nuts holding the injection pumb

We've advanced the pump about 1/8" and it's running much better now, more power. How far can we advance the pump safely? Could we try 1/4" to see if it get's even better or do the two lines have to line up exactly? No black or white smoke after adjusting the injection pump.

Psilosin · 03-02-07, 05:45 PM

The 2LTII is the same as the 2LTE except that the 2LTII has a manual injection pump and the 2LTE has an electronic injection pump. Hence no mount for your crank angle sensor on the 2LTII block.

If I were you I'd try and figure out a way to get to get that sensor hooked up so your engine runs as it is meant to. Not sure of the consequences of running a diesel in 'limp-home' mode all the time but on a gas engine vehicle it usually runs rich and leads to fouling your O2 sensor, cat converter etc, and poor mileage and power...so not recommended.

Or change to a manual injection pump if you can locate one and begone with all the electronics...

CaribooPrado · 03-03-07, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psilosin

If I were you I'd try and figure out a way to get to get that sensor hooked up so your engine runs as it is meant to.

Should there be a plug in the block? I just can't find the location... the drawing of the sensor location in the manual isn't much help either, as its not very clear (might be better in the actual hardcover manual).

Any hint to where I should look for it would be great. I've googled for hours, but no pics of where the sensor should be.
By now I've read a lot about how the Crank Angle Sensor (or Crankshaft Position Sensor) works and I'm convinced that not having the sensor installed is my problem with the loss in power.

Thanks for all the advice! It's highly appreciated and I'm such a newbie...
Tom

BJ-44 · 03-03-07, 07:29 PM

The 2L-T blocks are cast with the boss for a crank angle sensor but it is not drilled and the crank is not set up for the sensor. You would have to change the crank and get all the electronic injection parts to convert it back to electronic which would probably cost more in money and time that you spent for the engine.
The engine you have in there now is completely mechanical and If your happy with the power leave it alone. No need to change to a manual injection pump as it already is one. I wouldn't go too much farther than what you did on the advancement of the injection timing.

Note: No Toyota diesel engine has an oxygen sensor on it and only the newest diesels have a special catalytic/burner type system, so don't worry about you O2 sensor or Cat as your don't have one.

2rivers · 03-03-07, 11:22 PM

Interesting, I have never seen a 2L-T with the tin valve cover and cross over pipe like that - guessing it is a hybrid/cross-over to the newer style without the rocker arms? I have only seen 2l-T with the black cast valve cover (and rockers). Sorry this does not help you, are there wires that plug into the injector pump?
cheers,
Johnny

CaribooPrado · 03-04-07, 12:24 AM

I'm slowly getting the picture... we've used the electronic fuel pump on the "wrong" 2L-T engine. I have the pump that came with the 2L-T orginally and I should use that one. That's why we can't locate the space for the crank angle sensor.

So yes Johnny, the pump that's in the Prado now has wires attached. 3 or 4 I think. The other pump that came with the 2L-t engine has just one wire for the throttle sensor, I believe.

If we change the pump will the engine run or do we have to make adjustments to the wiring? In other words, will the computer know its non EFI? Does it matter?

I hope I can sort this out... this forum is great. I'm so far from any major centre its difficult to find someone specializing in this kind of engine and I'm just an electrician and not much of a mechanic (as you guys can tell by now).

CaribooPrado · 03-04-07, 12:58 AM

Pics of the engine, fuel pump and the vehicle:
http://homepage.mac.com/tomschoen/Pr...otoAlbum3.html

2rivers · 03-05-07, 09:34 PM

Tom? I have never had to mess around with the mech (2l_t) pump - it should work just fine for you as long as your throttle cable is routed and hooked up properly, and was not pooched to begin with, only one way to findout! The one wire off the mech (2l-T) pump I guess is the throttle cut off or some kind of solenoid? I should be more versed on this having owned mostly all variants of the L motor. I think Denis on here is really knowledgable on the 2L's. If you have time, download those 2L,3L manual as well as the 2l-T manual. I can have a quick scan tomorrow for you if need be.....

back to basics tho - are you driving an auto or 5spd? I'm glad you are an electrician becasue I think your gonna get into some wiring quickly. If you have 5 spd, I would be tempted to bypass all the non-relevant EFI wiring altogether. If auto, I'm not sure how the trans communicates with the EFI computer (but it does) - but it is the same trans as 4runner and Tacoma? of same vintage (V6's here) so maybe try talking to Toyota mechanic about your dilemma? Hope this helps a bit and others chime in. Lemme know about the manuals.

Johnny

CaribooPrado · 03-05-07, 10:04 PM

Thanks Johnny!
The manuals would be great. I'm driving the 5 spd, so transmission should not be an issue. At least one positive thing. I've talked to my mechanic today, who transfered the engines and he seems to think he can get the 2L-t working with the EFI. I'm not sure about it. Rather go with all mechanical at this point.
Found an old thread, someone managed to get a crank angle sensor reading from the power steering pulley:
http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/forum/v...teering+pulley
I guess it would be an option to at least try that route, before switching fuel pumps.

02-27-07, 10:35 PM	#1
CaribooPrado IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12	Prado 2l-T Crank Angle Sensor... need info please! Hi guys, I'm new to the forum as a member but been browsing for a while....so finally my first post: I bought a Toyota LandCruiser Prado EX5 Turbo Diesel EFI LHD about a year and a half ago and had to change the engine. It's finally all done and the LC is up and running again. Really the only problem was caused by not being able to use the crank angle sensor. Therefore my questions for you: 1.) What exactly does the crank angle sensor do? 2.) Does effect the fuel injection pump? 3.) Is it for pollution control? The engine is running really well, the new engine imported from Japan was in great condition, low millage, but the LC has less power. Its not really noticeable unless going uphill, almost seems like the turbo is kicking in a little late or not with the full boost. The check engine light is on (the little amber light) due to the crank angle sensor not being hooked up. Any help would be greatly appreciated, I just can't seem to find the correct LC manual. The only one we have is not covering the EFI engine. The local Toyota dealership (where I have bought the LC) is less than helpful...

03-03-07, 11:22 PM	#11
2rivers IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: BC, CANADA Posts: 274	Interesting, I have never seen a 2L-T with the tin valve cover and cross over pipe like that - guessing it is a hybrid/cross-over to the newer style without the rocker arms? I have only seen 2l-T with the black cast valve cover (and rockers). Sorry this does not help you, are there wires that plug into the injector pump? cheers, Johnny __________________ 82 BJ60 "Old Blue" plow truck - she's a beauty! Fleet of JDM goodness 97 Yamaha Enduro 55 Case 500 Diesel tractor 73 JD 500C backhoe

03-05-07, 09:34 PM	#14
2rivers IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: BC, CANADA Posts: 274	Tom? I have never had to mess around with the mech (2l_t) pump - it should work just fine for you as long as your throttle cable is routed and hooked up properly, and was not pooched to begin with, only one way to findout! The one wire off the mech (2l-T) pump I guess is the throttle cut off or some kind of solenoid? I should be more versed on this having owned mostly all variants of the L motor. I think Denis on here is really knowledgable on the 2L's. If you have time, download those 2L,3L manual as well as the 2l-T manual. I can have a quick scan tomorrow for you if need be..... back to basics tho - are you driving an auto or 5spd? I'm glad you are an electrician becasue I think your gonna get into some wiring quickly. If you have 5 spd, I would be tempted to bypass all the non-relevant EFI wiring altogether. If auto, I'm not sure how the trans communicates with the EFI computer (but it does) - but it is the same trans as 4runner and Tacoma? of same vintage (V6's here) so maybe try talking to Toyota mechanic about your dilemma? Hope this helps a bit and others chime in. Lemme know about the manuals. Johnny __________________ 82 BJ60 "Old Blue" plow truck - she's a beauty! Fleet of JDM goodness 97 Yamaha Enduro 55 Case 500 Diesel tractor 73 JD 500C backhoe

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02-28-07, 04:35 PM	#2
BJ-44 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Okinawa, Japan Posts: 170	According to the manual the crank sensor gives a signal to the computer telling it when the engine is at top dead center. It works in conjunction with the engine speed sensor in the injection pump sending a signal to the comp. The computer uses these two signals to determine the volume of fuel needed. Without the speed sensor in the injection pump hooked up it will not run. I don't know about the crank angle sensor but looking at the diagrams it should not run without this signal either. If you do not have the crank angle sensor hooked up and it runs it must have a safe mode operation. Which means it will run but will not have normal power since the computer is not receiving all the signals it needs for proper operation. Why are you running it without the sensor hooked up?

02-28-07, 04:41 PM	#3
BJ-44 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Okinawa, Japan Posts: 170	http://www.showmesome.info/hilux/info/manuals/1KZ-TE/ not the same truck but same injection system

03-01-07, 06:44 AM	#5
BJ-44 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Okinawa, Japan Posts: 170	If that pic is your new engine then it is a 2L-T not a 2L-TE (E) standing for electronic and they don't come with a crank angle sensor or electronic injection pump. A 2L-T has noticeably less power than a 2L-TE.

03-01-07, 09:40 AM	#6
CaribooPrado IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12	Yes, that is the new one... so everything might be running ok then and I'm just noticing the difference in power. Guess I'll drive it for a while and see if I can live with it. One more question: Is the 2L-T just as prone to the head cracking and overheating issue as the 2L-TE engine?

03-02-07, 11:39 AM	#7
CaribooPrado IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12	One more question re: Injection Timing for the 2L-T The manual says: 2. Adjust Injection Timing (a) Remove the cylinder block insulator (b) Loosen the bolt holding the injection pump (c) Loosen the 2 nuts holding the injection pump to the timimg gear case (d) Align the punching line and upper processing surface by slightly tilting the pump (e) Tighten the 2 nuts holding the injection pumb We've advanced the pump about 1/8" and it's running much better now, more power. How far can we advance the pump safely? Could we try 1/4" to see if it get's even better or do the two lines have to line up exactly? No black or white smoke after adjusting the injection pump.

03-02-07, 05:45 PM	#8
Psilosin IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 133	The 2LTII is the same as the 2LTE except that the 2LTII has a manual injection pump and the 2LTE has an electronic injection pump. Hence no mount for your crank angle sensor on the 2LTII block. If I were you I'd try and figure out a way to get to get that sensor hooked up so your engine runs as it is meant to. Not sure of the consequences of running a diesel in 'limp-home' mode all the time but on a gas engine vehicle it usually runs rich and leads to fouling your O2 sensor, cat converter etc, and poor mileage and power...so not recommended. Or change to a manual injection pump if you can locate one and begone with all the electronics...

03-03-07, 07:29 PM	#10
BJ-44 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Okinawa, Japan Posts: 170	The 2L-T blocks are cast with the boss for a crank angle sensor but it is not drilled and the crank is not set up for the sensor. You would have to change the crank and get all the electronic injection parts to convert it back to electronic which would probably cost more in money and time that you spent for the engine. The engine you have in there now is completely mechanical and If your happy with the power leave it alone. No need to change to a manual injection pump as it already is one. I wouldn't go too much farther than what you did on the advancement of the injection timing. Note: No Toyota diesel engine has an oxygen sensor on it and only the newest diesels have a special catalytic/burner type system, so don't worry about you O2 sensor or Cat as your don't have one.

03-04-07, 12:24 AM	#12
CaribooPrado IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12	I'm slowly getting the picture... we've used the electronic fuel pump on the "wrong" 2L-T engine. I have the pump that came with the 2L-T orginally and I should use that one. That's why we can't locate the space for the crank angle sensor. So yes Johnny, the pump that's in the Prado now has wires attached. 3 or 4 I think. The other pump that came with the 2L-t engine has just one wire for the throttle sensor, I believe. If we change the pump will the engine run or do we have to make adjustments to the wiring? In other words, will the computer know its non EFI? Does it matter? I hope I can sort this out... this forum is great. I'm so far from any major centre its difficult to find someone specializing in this kind of engine and I'm just an electrician and not much of a mechanic (as you guys can tell by now).

03-04-07, 12:58 AM	#13
CaribooPrado IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12	Pics of the engine, fuel pump and the vehicle: http://homepage.mac.com/tomschoen/Pr...otoAlbum3.html

03-05-07, 10:04 PM	#15
CaribooPrado IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12	Thanks Johnny! The manuals would be great. I'm driving the 5 spd, so transmission should not be an issue. At least one positive thing. I've talked to my mechanic today, who transfered the engines and he seems to think he can get the 2L-t working with the EFI. I'm not sure about it. Rather go with all mechanical at this point. Found an old thread, someone managed to get a crank angle sensor reading from the power steering pulley: http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/forum/v...teering+pulley I guess it would be an option to at least try that route, before switching fuel pumps.