Influence of desert/sand on engine/transmission in HZJ80 (1HZ)

[aklosak]

hi,

I have already posted this in 80-series forum, but maybe here is a better place to ask :-)

anybody has some experience with what is the influence of long time driving in deserts/sand environment on 1HZ engine and generally on diesel engine series 80 ?

maybe someone has been repairing engine, on transmission box from a car which has been used for a long time in such a dusty/sandy environment, and can comment on it's conditions ?

I am about to buy '91 HZJ 80, (1HZ engine) which was used (ie.) during Tunis Rally in Africa, and would like to know, if this kind environment can be very destructive to engine/transmission/other components.

car pictures and replays fron 80series forum here:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/139825-influence-desert-sand-engine-suspension-hzj80.html

all comments would be welcome

regards
andy

[Jan-78FJ40]

Originally Posted by aklosak

hi,

I have already posted this in 80-series forum, but maybe here is a better place to ask :-)

anybody has some experience with what is the influence of long time driving in deserts/sand environment on 1HZ engine and generally on diesel engine series 80 ?

maybe someone has been repairing engine, on transmission box from a car which has been used for a long time in such a dusty/sandy environment, and can comment on it's conditions ?

I am about to buy '91 HZJ 80, (1HZ engine) which was used (ie.) during Tunis Rally in Africa, and would like to know, if this kind environment can be very destructive to engine/transmission/other components.

car pictures and replays fron 80series forum here:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=139825

all comments would be welcome

regards
andy

in general, engine, transfer and transmission are sealed systems, and should not suffer from sand or dust. However, one has to factor in things like maintenance, especially changing of filters. I go to the desert a lot, and take long trips to baja, and a 1000 mile trip there clogs up a dust filter pretty good.

I would be more worried about the nture of race-driving, where everything is pushed to a limit. also sand driving puts a lot of stress on the drivetrain. then again, a few thousand rally kilometers should not do too much to an engine.

j

[Ron R]

Originally Posted by Jan-78FJ40

in general, engine, transfer and transmission are sealed systems, and should not suffer from sand or dust. However, one has to factor in things like maintenance, especially changing of filters. I go to the desert a lot, and take long trips to baja, and a 1000 mile trip there clogs up a dust filter pretty good.

I would be more worried about the nture of race-driving, where everything is pushed to a limit. also sand driving puts a lot of stress on the drivetrain. then again, a few thousand rally kilometers should not do too much to an engine.

j

I agree on that last part.
A little story:
Last year, during a trip in a group of several cars we travelled a total of 20.000 km during 8 weeks. Large distances hardly any road or what you can call a road.
Because of time restrains we often drove very fast on those 'roads' but also off-road.
Very often dust was so dense we couldn't see beyond the front bumper. And you had to stop to let the dust settle.
In one of the last weeks suddenly one of us (driving an 80) told me he heard a strange squeeking noise from under his rig every now an than.
Mind, he allways maintains his rig very well !!!
We looked and searched but since the noise was not allways present it was impossible to find the source.
The day after that day we passed a city where there was a garage and we could inspect his rig properly.
What we found? We could not believe it.
The rear axle: both torsion rods were damaged. One was broken about halfway the diameter, the other one was hanging about, wedged between the lips of the bracket.
Front axle even worse:
The two axle arms (hockeysticks) are each mounted with three bolts. One bolt to the chassis, two bolts onto two brackets on the axle, one at the front, one at the rear of the axle body.
At both sides (left and right) the rear brackets were broken. One on the welds the other bracket tore a piece out of the axlebody. Once removed we could look into the inners of the housing, seeing the shaft !!
All that was holding the front axle in place were the front brackets wich we found damaged as well!!

We managed to get it all welded up and he was able to make it home. Forunately this happened in the last week of the trip and we were in a more or less relaxed mood and not driving at high speeds, because we were ahead of schedule.
Back home all was looked after and repaired. No problems with te engine, gearbox, transfer or driveshafts.

[roscoFJ73]

Its the heat that kills engines and gearboxes in that environment.
Soft sand can cause the tyres the build up a wave of sand in front of the tyres.
The only way forward is too keep the foot down which sends exhaust temps through the roof.
Gearboxes and diffs also get very hot
Airing down can alleviate much of it but whether they would do that in a desert race is anyones guess.

They probably pulled the stock filtration system off and had a K&N filter during the racing.

IMO sand driving can be quite easy with the right tyres,inflation and driving style.
The forgiving nature of sand can take away the shock and jolts that are inherent in other types of terrain.
However those without experience or compassion will put a lot of strain on the components.

[Jan-78FJ40]

Originally Posted by Ron R

I agree on that last part.
A little story:
Last year, during a trip in a group of several cars we travelled a total of 20.000 km during 8 weeks. Large distances hardly any road or what you can call a road.
Because of time restrains we often drove very fast on those 'roads' but also off-road.
Very often dust was so dense we couldn't see beyond the front bumper. And you had to stop to let the dust settle.
In one of the last weeks suddenly one of us (driving an 80) told me he heard a strange squeeking noise from under his rig every now an than.
Mind, he allways maintains his rig very well !!!
We looked and searched but since the noise was not allways present it was impossible to find the source.
The day after that day we passed a city where there was a garage and we could inspect his rig properly.
What we found? We could not believe it.
The rear axle: both torsion rods were damaged. One was broken about halfway the diameter, the other one was hanging about, wedged between the lips of the bracket.
Front axle even worse:
The two axle arms (hockeysticks) are each mounted with three bolts. One bolt to the chassis, two bolts onto two brackets on the axle, one at the front, one at the rear of the axle body.
At both sides (left and right) the rear brackets were broken. One on the welds the other bracket tore a piece out of the axlebody. Once removed we could look into the inners of the housing, seeing the shaft !!
All that was holding the front axle in place were the front brackets wich we found damaged as well!!

We managed to get it all welded up and he was able to make it home. Forunately this happened in the last week of the trip and we were in a more or less relaxed mood and not driving at high speeds, because we were ahead of schedule.
Back home all was looked after and repaired. No problems with te engine, gearbox, transfer or driveshafts.

pretty scary. thatreally should not have happened-any explanation?
cheers,
J

[Ron R]

Nope.
All I can say that these 20k km's were driven during two succesive trips to Kazakhstan and Morocco.
Especially during the first trip the rigs were well loaded but not excessive.
What is important, I think, is that during the first trip we drove at fairly high speeds (over 100km/hr - 65mls/hr) over what they call 'roads'. Often tarmac with big potholes. But we also had our share of unpaved roads and did some cross-country. Having said that, I have to add that this cross-country part was low speed, finding our way so stress on the rig must have been very limited.
In Marocco most of the roads were good, though we've done a fair bit of sanddesert and stone desert and did some tracks through mountainious area.

In my opinion we did wrong during the first trip but this was because of very tight time restrains. Many days we started at 7 in the morning, stopped at 8 in the evening hardly taking time for lunch or coffee. And we were camping!
My mate bought this rig used with about 180.000kms on the odo. It looked well-maintained but one never knows what the PO did to it.

[aklosak]

Thanks Jan, Rosco and Ron :-)

I get the overall picture now. I will be examining suspension more carefully, after reading your comments.

Originally Posted by Ron R

...In one of the last weeks suddenly one of us (driving an 80)...

Thanks Ron for a very pictures example :-)
I have take a look at your site, and found there were different cars on those trips (your hzj7x, hdj80, landrover, etc). may you comment on how did series 80 performed in comparison with other cars ? excluding "driver" influence of course :-)

I have been for a long time considering buying only HJ60 (2H) or HJ61 (12H-T), but, having seen this 80 with 1HZ and roof-tent + OME suspension, changed my perception a little. The main aim for this car will not be heavy off-roading, but similar trips as your Russia trip. I am unable to pay the price of HZJ75 so far, which probably would be a best choice.

would be nice to hear Your oppinion

regards
andy

[Ron R]

Hei Andy.
So you've been on my site. Nice to hear.
Sadly enough I've not updated the site yet about our trip to Kazakhstan (passing through Poland! )and Morocco. Not enough webspace !
I'm in the proces of moving to a different ISP but then I still have to add these last trips.
Actually the blue 80 you see is the 80 I wrote about. The driver in general is very careful, but I have to admid he also likes to put the pedal to the metal so to say.
In my opinion the 80 is very well up to what you might expect for the kind of trips we usually do. In general these trips are not for softies, but certainly it's not hard-core either.
Every now an then I envy my mate and his wife because of the comfort and power of their rig. I think I would own one if it only would look more like a 70-serie.
During the trip to Russia as well as the trip to Morocco there was also a highly modified RangeRover (petrol) in the group. The 80 however, even though unmodified, was at least able to keep up with it. Sometimes even better. Both drivers are very experienced.
On my site you've also seen the trip to Tunesia. There was a white 60 involved.
This was the rig that caused us a lot of headaches to get it over the dunes. I can't say it was just the rig, because the driver was not very experienced but if I had to choose between 60 and 80 ?? ----> 80 no doubt.

[Jan-78FJ40]

Originally Posted by aklosak

Thanks Jan, Rosco and Ron :-)

I get the overall picture now. I will be examining suspension more carefully, after reading your comments.



Thanks Ron for a very pictures example :-)
I have take a look at your site, and found there were different cars on those trips (your hzj7x, hdj80, landrover, etc). may you comment on how did series 80 performed in comparison with other cars ? excluding "driver" influence of course :-)

I have been for a long time considering buying only HJ60 (2H) or HJ61 (12H-T), but, having seen this 80 with 1HZ and roof-tent + OME suspension, changed my perception a little. The main aim for this car will not be heavy off-roading, but similar trips as your Russia trip. I am unable to pay the price of HZJ75 so far, which probably would be a best choice.

would be nice to hear Your oppinion

regards
andy

The 80s are great trucks, and certainly up to what you need. the 1HZ is a bulletproof engine too.
If you are not sure, have a competent mechanic go over it, and advise you. Or ship the truck here

cheers,
jan

[aklosak]

Thanks guys,
following your advice, I am going to check it tomorrow with a mechanic. We'll see :-)

warm regards
andy

[aklosak]

Finally, I did not buy it :-(
it was hit seriously from front-right side
the guy who was selling it, repaired it, but the quality of repairs was poor. I could see curvature on front axle !
the brakes did not worked. Transmission was in need for repair. Engine was leaking. Car was very heavily used inside. And guy was asking 10,000$ for it !

So I am still looking :-)

[Ron R]

Good job!

Pity that you have to look for another one, but better safe than sorry.
Now that you have this picture, next time look also for the points where the lower axle links connect to the axle. On your picture just left of the spring at the underside of the axle.
Why? That's is the point I described in posting nr 3 above. It was sheared at the left and righthand side.

Hope you're more succesfull next time.