isuzu 4BD1T swap?!

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by astr

The 4BD1T in the photo is dated 8/89 and the 4BD2T is dated 12/93. I expect there were many variations of these engines depending on the country that they were destined for. I know that here in the US, NPR trucks came mostly turboed whereas in Costa Rica, most were not.

Over here (New Zealand) the 3 ton NPR's originally came with a 3.3L engine, the 4BC2. The 4 ton NPR's had the 3.9 turbo 4BD1T.
Later the 4BC2 in the 3 ton trucks was replaced with the 3.6L 4BE1 engine.

The later 2 ton trucks can come with a 4.3L engine 9(4BG1).

T3 turbos fit on the laters style manifolds (4BD2 type), but be careful when choosing one. Most ricer style turbos have been intended to provide maximum airflow for maximum power on a petrol engine, they will spool up too late for most of our diesels.

Generally speaking diesel turbos have a much smaller A/R turbine housing to better extract energy from the cooler exhaust and to boost low end torque.


While they're a great engine, if I had a toyota I'd be looking for something like a toyota 14BT engine to drop in, just to keep the toyota-ness of it. The 14B is a similar size and format but even more refined, my employer has a couple of work trucks (toyota dyna) fitted with them.

[RHINO]

Originally Posted by ChuckB

Any reason why one of these 4BD engines would not fit in a 55? Just doing a little dreaming while at work...

fits great under my piggy hood.

[88tlc]

Originally Posted by rtarh2o

Ok, see if I am thinking correctly. I am trying to get the Isuzu engine to my toyota auto trans. Marks Adapters in Australia sells an adapter to mount a chevy diesel to the land cruiser auto trans. Can I use that with the adapter from isuzu diesel swappers that mates the isuzu engine to the Chevy trans? It seems like the Marks adapter basically makes the trans fit a chevy bolt pattern and I am thinking the Isuzu diesel swappers kit must make the isuzu fit the chevy trans. If this thinking is correct it would seem like it would work?
Thanks
Rusty
97 FJ80
78 Fj40

I do not think you can use two adapters. if its a new bellhousing, to an adapter you may be in business. I pursued the option of the isuzu to gm adapter (isuzu swapper), then a gm to toyota adapter (marks). Both in fact are plates, so they are designed with a flywheel spacer, and with the plates, which will not bolt up. still would like to find a way!

[88tlc]

Originally Posted by astr

As far as relaibility, I suspect both are about the same. The fact that there are a lot of 4BD2 heads on ebay only means someone has a lot of them for sale. If you notice, none of them ever sell so it would suggest the demand is low.

For those wanting to run WVO, I understand that an IDI setup is more suitable which would suggest selecting a 4BD2T.

I have a 4bd1t, that was supposed to be rebuilt, and was in fact ran hot, or ran with out oil or lord knows what. so in the process of rebuilding the head, and regrinding the crank, I have chatted with some people at the machining house here in Utah, Clegg machining. they see the 4bd2T with cracked heads a lot, they never see a 4bd1t head cracked.

also regarding the wvo, direct injection works great with WVO on my cummins diesel. why would it not work on the 4bd1t?

the mechanical injection pumps are also better with WVO.

[88tlc]

Dougal - your lucky that you live in a country that allows toyota diesel engines! and no predators!

[bram]

Hell Yeah RHINO! Nice Work!

[RHINO]

thanks bram, i cant wait to drive it !!

i have a lazy excuse of a build thread going in the 55 section title "enough talk !!"

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by 88tlc

Dougal - your lucky that you live in a country that allows toyota diesel engines! and no predators!

Yeah I know.

Does someone want to get me some real measurements for the front end of the relevant toyota gearboxes. I have large chunks of my 4BD1T drawn up in solidworks, making a toyota box fit can't be that hard.

[bram]

Thats what I've been working on. I have my bellhousing in a CMM right now. Then a toyota one after that.

[astr]

Originally Posted by 88tlc

I have a 4bd1t, that was supposed to be rebuilt, and was in fact ran hot, or ran with out oil or lord knows what. so in the process of rebuilding the head, and regrinding the crank, I have chatted with some people at the machining house here in Utah, Clegg machining. they see the 4bd2T with cracked heads a lot, they never see a 4bd1t head cracked..

It may very well be true. I have very limited experience with both engines. I would rely more on a machine shop's experience than the number of ebay ads for heads as an indicator of reliability. I have a 4BD2T that has low compression in one cylinder but have to yet pulled the head to see what is wrong. It could be a cracked head but I suspect it is a piston or ring or head gasket problem. I'll pull it after I'm finished with the 4BD1.

Originally Posted by 88tlc

also regarding the wvo, direct injection works great with WVO on my cummins diesel. why would it not work on the 4bd1t?

the mechanical injection pumps are also better with WVO.

I had read somewhere that IDI was better than DI for WVO, but I have no personal experience. I may be guilty of perpetuating a myth.

Regarding your engine overheating: The 4BD1 that I have has two partially melted pistons and the PO told me that it happened on a hot summer day in the mountains of TN with a full load. It overheated, blew out coolant (head gasket) and never ran right after that. I pulled the head and discovered the bad pistons.

According to the FSM for the 4HE1, which superceded the 4BD1/2, one of the functions the ECM performs is to reduce the amount of fuel delivered by the injection pump when the coolant temp gets high. This looks to me to be an attempt by Isuzu to address the problem that my 4BD1 experienced and maybe yours also.

[astr]

Originally Posted by RHINO

fits great under my piggy hood.

That is beautiful! I'm sooooo envious!

[rtarh2o]

Ok, still researching my 4BD1T swap into my 97 FJ80. Apparently a cummens 4Bt? will mount to an A440F trans from an earlier FJ80? If this is the case will the Isuzu mount to it as well? Could I put the A440F into my 97? Just trying to find a way to make this work
Rusty
97 FJ80
78 FJ40

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by rtarh2o

Ok, still researching my 4BD1T swap into my 97 FJ80. Apparently a cummens 4Bt? will mount to an A440F trans from an earlier FJ80? If this is the case will the Isuzu mount to it as well? Could I put the A440F into my 97? Just trying to find a way to make this work
Rusty
97 FJ80
78 FJ40

Go to www.4btswaps.com
I have uploaded a picture and photos showing the 4BD1 bolt pattern. It is not the same as the 4BT or an SAE pattern.

I have run my 4BD1T hot before and also low on oil. With no damage to crank surface or heads.
It takes a serious cooking to damage these engines, the driver would be left in no doubt to what they've just done.

The cranks are nitrided and stay wear free after many hundreds of thousands of km's. After grinding the nitrided surface off, they won't be as good.

[dieselcruiserhead]

Originally Posted by bram

dieselcruiserhead: Could you measure up the input shaft of the NPR 5 speed for me? I need to know the length, diameter, # of splines, and the dims of the little bit on the end that centers it in the crank.

Does anyone know for sure tthat the 4BD1 and 4BD2TC are balanced with the flywheel on the motor? I am trying to figure out if its possible to put a spacer between the crank and the flywheel. If it is balanced with the flywheel I would think that moving it is out of the question. If its balanced internally then it might be. Moving the flywheel forward would make it a whole lot easier to mate the H55F input shaft to a clutch disk.

Bram finally getting around to this. Pics enclosed. I'll take a measurement shortly of what the overall height is as the motor is now finally back together...

About 29" long. My guestimation (with head off) is about the same height at the bottom of the oil pan, about 28" or so...


EDIT : I took another measurement of the engine all puit together, with the crossover tube it is about 31" from the bottom of the oil pan to the top of the crossover tube.

A

[ChuckB]

Originally Posted by RHINO

fits great under my piggy hood.

I totally forgot that you were doing one... I can't wait to hear how it turns out!!!

[rtarh2o]

Still trying to figure out the 97 FJ80 Isuzu swap. Any word yet on an adapter for the A440? If not what about the isuzu diesel swapper adapter to a GM trans and a transfer case adapter to the Toyota case? I have read about this but just wondering if it has been done or is really possible? Which trans, I am leaning towards an auto.
Thanks
Rusty
97 FJ80
78 FJ40

[RHINO]

for an auto you could run the 700r4 and the 80 transfer case, same as the guys doing 4BT swaps in 80's.

[rtarh2o]

Still researching, I am going to make this work. First, how are they adapting the 4BT to the L/C transfer case? Another option is this that I found on AA websitd "Mark’s 4wd adapter kit to allow you to adapt the GM 4L60E hex bolt to Landcruiser HF2A transfer case" The Isuzu Diesel Swapper kit says it is for the GM 4L60 trans, and from what I have found my 97 fzj80 has the HF2A transfer case. Seems like this should work, it would be nice if I could avoid the $1600 in adapters though! Any ideas?
Rusty
97 FZJ80
78 FJ40

[tntoyota]

Originally Posted by RHINO

for an auto you could run the 700r4

Does that tranny hold up with a motor thats half as powerfull as a Diesel?

[rtarh2o]

If you are talking about the 700r4 I read on one of the 4bt sites that they had to beef up the 700r4 to hold up to the 4bt, I assume the same would have to be done with the isuzu? How about the GM 4L60? I assume it will hold up since it is the trans in the truck they did on the isuzu diesel site? Anyone know?
Rusty
97 FZJ80
78 FJ40

[RHINO]

Originally Posted by rtarh2o

it would be nice if I could avoid the $1600 in adapters though! Any ideas?
Rusty
97 FZJ80
78 FJ40

thats easy, import a 1HZ from canada for 8-10K or so, no money spent on adapters, pretty much a bolt in. or just run E100 in your cruiser and feel good about not burning dino fuel. i dont know what to tell ya, modifying from original costs money no matter how ya do it.

[RHINO]

Originally Posted by tntoyota

Does that tranny hold up with a motor thats half as powerfull as a Diesel?

half a,,, what??

the 700r like all auto's not built for low revving engines have problems with line pressure to operate properly for a good lifespan, so, they need to built with lower revs in mind, its easy, no big deal. the input shaft from the torque converter is the weak point, but they have been running around behind 4BT's for a while now with minimal to no problems.

[rtarh2o]

I considered the 1HZ route with no luck, I was told a half cut was the only way to go but I have not had any luck finding one. There was a 1HD-t for sale near me for $7,500 which I thought was a good deal but passed on it after several people told me all the bits and pieces would be expensive and hard to find without the half cut. The Isuzu sounds like an easy conversion to do as far as wiring if I can get the transmission thing figured out.
Rusty
97 FZJ80
78 FJ40

[rtarh2o]

So which trans would you go with, GM 4l60 or 700R? I am pretty sure I can still buy the adapters, trans and isuzu engine a lot cheaper than the 1HD-T Toyota and spend the remainder on other things. Does it sound like I am on the right track in my thinking about the transmission/transfer case adapter?
Thanks
Rusty
97 FZJ80
78 FJ40

[RHINO]

i would do the 700r, by the time its all said and done you should come away a little under the 1HZ price. why not do a 4BT swap that are already being done in 80's?

[rtarh2o]

Wouldn't the same problems be involved with the 4BT or does it mount to a GM trans? The main thing I don't like about the 4BT swap is the 4" lift required. I am building a daily driver with quite a bit of highway driving intended. I am also under the understanding that the Isuzu is a bit quieter. Any progress on the bellhousing talked about on this thread?
Rusty
97 FZJ80
78 FJ 40

[bram]

Man Dougal, I just opened the model you sent me. You have been pretty busy! I'm glad to see that you have the motor side of the bellhousing in there. I have the automatic transmission bellhousing in a CMM right now. It has taken me a few hours to learn to use it but I think on Monday I will be able to get it done. Then to figure out how solid"works".