isuzu 4BD1T swap?!

astr · 05-15-07, 08:33 PM

You are absolutely right! Someone needs to try it and report real results. It is too easy to sit here and speculate. Go for it and tell us how it worked out. I'd love to have someone show me I'm full of s**t!

RHINO · 05-16-07, 03:24 AM

i am in the process of going for it right now, pig is gutted and im piecing together the new drivetrain right now. if everything goes right it'll be back on the road in two weeks. believe it or not wiring the alternator is going to be the hardest part for me.

Dieseltim · 05-16-07, 07:22 AM

Rhino, plz post some pics of what you have gotten done.

Dieseltim

acy76 · 05-16-07, 12:54 PM

I think using a lightweight flywheel is probably a fine idea - should not be a problem to find one for a GM smallblock application, I'd guess. As was stated previously, all of this spinning mass is also supported by the transmission's input bearing, so the airplane example is not quite the same thing.

One thing to consider is whether there is a clutch disc with adequate springs to absorb the power pulses from a big 4 diesel. Without this, all the pulses are going to go into the gearbox - sort of like turning the input shaft with an impact wrench. Would a GM diesel clutch work at all?

RHINO · 05-16-07, 01:01 PM

i dont think diesel pulses will be a problem, do you know how many frito lay, UPS, wonderbread ect ect trucks are out there with a cummins 4BT and SM465 tranny?? well its a lot and they collectively have a bazillion miles with no clutch problems ive eaver heard of, plus, the 4BT has a harder hitting torque curve cause of the crazy long stroke so, i am really not worried about my swap at all, but, it is expiramental.

dieseltim, right now the only pics i could offer is all the drivetrain parts on the garage floor being put together, and a big empty hole under the hood. once i get things going and start installing i will have something to look at. patience young grasshopper.

astr · 05-16-07, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHINO

i am in the process of going for it right now, pig is gutted and im piecing together the new drivetrain right now. if everything goes right it'll be back on the road in two weeks. believe it or not wiring the alternator is going to be the hardest part for me.

The alternator connections are very simple. The standard Isuzu alternator has an integral regulator which makes it even easier to wire up. Check Fig. 9 on page 6D-14 of the FSM for detailed wiring.

Basically, you have three wires going to a round connector on the back of the alternator plus a heavy black wire (B) going to the output stud also on the back of the alternator. This black wire should be heavy enough to handle the full alternator output (70 A) and goes directly to the (+) of the battery (might be a good idea to protect it with a fusible link or big fuse). The black wire (S) from the round connector also goes directly to the (+) of the battery. It serves to sense the actual voltage at the battery which the regulator uses to control the output voltage of the alternator. The white wire (IG) from the round connector goes to the ignition switch and should be hot only when the ignition switch is in the "run" position. This wire turns the charging system on and off. The white with blue stripe (L) is used to control the "Charge" indicator light and is optional. When the alternator is charging, the (L) wire is hot and turns on the "charge indicator relay". Since the indicator light is wired through the normally closed set of contacts on the relay, when the relay is turned on, the indicator light goes out. Hope that makes sense.

RHINO · 05-16-07, 02:10 PM

well, thanks again, i'm keeping count and thats two beers now

PurpleFJ62 · 05-16-07, 07:57 PM

good info there, so basically you are splicing these into the toyota wiring harness? What color are those wires?
-nate-

acy76 · 05-17-07, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHINO

i dont think diesel pulses will be a problem, do you know how many frito lay, UPS, wonderbread ect ect trucks are out there with a cummins 4BT and SM465 tranny?? well its a lot and they collectively have a bazillion miles with no clutch problems ive eaver heard of, plus, the 4BT has a harder hitting torque curve cause of the crazy long stroke so, i am really not worried about my swap at all, but, it is expiramental.

Good point. Whatever clutch the Cummins swap uses would be the one I would choose. Any ideas as to which one it is?

RHINO · 05-17-07, 01:55 PM

10.5 inch chevy, could be 11" but not much difference either way.

RHINO · 05-22-07, 04:28 PM

just a teaser of old and new engines on the floor, and also something to get an idea of overall size differences

74TLC · 05-23-07, 09:43 AM

Chevy bellhousing casting 460486 is for a 12 in HD clutch if needing one to match up to the truck transmissions. The steel scattershields would be nice too but center hole would be the smaller car size to fit muncie or T10.

Bennett · 05-28-07, 11:02 AM

I bought this Chevy scattershield that is mated to a Toyota 4 speed...it is indexed to fit behind a sbc ior bbc

how does one index a bellhousing to a motor such a a 4BD1T so everything is trued..would you use the sae pattern?

curious to know..

RHINO · 05-28-07, 06:43 PM

read above bennett, its all here. all you need now is the adapter from David and some clutch parts and you can bolt it to the isuzu, but the lack of overdrive in that toyota tranny is not going to help you.

bram · 05-30-07, 10:43 AM

Hi guys,

I am getting to this thread a little late so bare with me. I tried to read everything but I could have missed something.

Does anyone have detailed mechanical drawings for the back end of these isuzu motors, as well as the bellhousing? I am interested in designing an adapter for a stock fj60 drivetrain (with a H55F). I have access to a machine shop and friends who can work in ProE and autocad. I also know the owners of several machine shops here in MA. I think i can get the mechanical drawings made for free if I can just get my hands on the the dimensions of all the parts. If the part does not end up being too complex I can then make a test unit myself.

Other thoughts questions:
Does the isuzu swap require firewall mods for fj40s and fj60s?
Has anyone fab'd motor mounts for a fj40/60? If so, do you have some dimentions and frame locations? I would like to do mechanical drawings for these as well and look into having them manufactured.

I don't have a motor to try this on myself. Maybe if we can get the required information together someone someone here can be a guinea pig for the test unit?

Let me know what you guys & gals think,
Bram

RHINO · 05-30-07, 01:14 PM

bram it sounds awsome !! i would love to be the guine pig but i am already too far in mine. if you keep the fan in the radiator like its supposed to be you will have plenty of firewall clearance and the motor mounts only need to move back about 1.5".

i thought about going with the H55 in mine, but figured i'd try the 5 speed out of a v-6 for cost reasons,

bram · 05-31-07, 08:16 AM

Update:

Turns out I know a guy that runs a big diesel shop here in southeast MA. He has a 96 NPR right now that I can get real cheap. Im headed upt there tomorrow afternoon to check it out. At the very least I should be able to get the bellhousing for a few days so i can dimention it. So by the middle of next week I should have the data in Pro/E. Now i just need a 2F or 3F bellhousing to get the dimentions of the other side...

PurpleFJ62 · 05-31-07, 08:19 PM

sounds like a great idea. Having a dedicated adapter would make this conversion a snap. I will be doing mine with in a year or so, hopfully you will have it done by then. good luck.

bram · 06-02-07, 08:58 AM

Update:

Yestarday I went to my friend's diesel shop. The motor in the 96 NPR is grenaded and not rebuildable. Bummer. But, he also had a grenaded automatic tranny for a 96 NPR just sitting around and he gave me the bellhousing. So now I have the piece I need to design the adapter. He also has a mitsubushi diesel which is basically identical in terms of size and ouput but uses a different bolt pattern on the bellhousing. Needs a rebuild but i can probably get that one for free. So, I may end up designing an adapter for a mitsu as well.

Now that I have the bellhousing we have an opertunity to address a question that has been lingering in these diesel threads......Does the A440 bolt up to the isuzu bellhousing? I looked for an ID tag on the isuzu auto and could not find one so i dont know if its an aisin or not (although from what i have read here it must be??). If there is anyone in NE that has an A440 sitting around we can meet up and settle this once and for all.

dieselcruiserhead · 06-02-07, 02:24 PM

We have a good NPR 5 speed if anyone needs one...

astr · 06-03-07, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bram

Update:

Yestarday I went to my friend's diesel shop. The motor in the 96 NPR is grenaded and not rebuildable. Bummer. But, he also had a grenaded automatic tranny for a 96 NPR just sitting around and he gave me the bellhousing. So now I have the piece I need to design the adapter. He also has a mitsubushi diesel which is basically identical in terms of size and ouput but uses a different bolt pattern on the bellhousing. Needs a rebuild but i can probably get that one for free. So, I may end up designing an adapter for a mitsu as well.

Now that I have the bellhousing we have an opertunity to address a question that has been lingering in these diesel threads......Does the A440 bolt up to the isuzu bellhousing? I looked for an ID tag on the isuzu auto and could not find one so i dont know if its an aisin or not (although from what i have read here it must be??). If there is anyone in NE that has an A440 sitting around we can meet up and settle this once and for all.

If it is a 96 then the transmission should be a JR403E manufactured by Jatco (Japan Automaytic Transmission Co.) and not Aisin. The JR403E should fit the 4BD1 and 4BD2. Here is a picture of the JR403E:

bram · 06-03-07, 02:49 PM

that looks about right

PurpleFJ62 · 06-03-07, 03:13 PM

so are the proposed adapters going to be for a slush box or a manual?

ridgerunner · 06-03-07, 03:56 PM

I have nothing to add to tech, but met a guy the other day who had "an industrial 3.9" Isuzu swapped into an older suburban. It was a non-turbo model with a turbo off of a car bolted to an electric 17% overdrive box (not a ranger, I looked) infront of a SM465. The rest of the drivetrain was 1/2 stuff- 10 bolt axles. etc.

The kicker was the truck was filled full of tool as the guy works as a scout camp ranger in Wyoming. It tips the scales at 8300lbs (sans driver) and at 60-70 gets 20-26mpg. It had been in the truck for about 10 years and at about 300K the owner was considering rebuilding it.

RHINO · 06-03-07, 04:45 PM

wow thats cool brian (brian right?). i can see where the 4BD engines came from. that re-inforces my hopes of netting at or over 30mpg

ridgerunner · 06-03-07, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHINO

wow thats cool brian (brian right?). i can see where the 4BD engines came from. that re-inforces my hopes of netting at or over 30mpg

The guy carried a HUGE amount of crap in the back of that thing. I think 30mpg if you're light on the pedal and the weight itself is low. I'm not sure how 35" tires will work into the equation clay but it might be possible.

bram · 06-03-07, 07:10 PM

yeah, very cool.

Purplefj - the idea is that this will be a bellhousing adapter. If it is true that all 2F and 3F bellhousings are the same on the motor side then it should work for both. I also need to make a spacer to make the tranny input shaft reach the clutch and I havnt really worked that out yet. Once I figure the manual out then I will try for the auto.

I dont know anything about the auto so im gonna need some help with that. What I really need is a blown up A440 and a blown up H42. My H42 is about to blow up though, so i have that covered.

RHINO · 06-03-07, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

I'm not sure how 35" tires will work into the equation clay but it might be possible.

i'm on 37's now

, but i have hopes and dreams man

PurpleFJ62 · 06-04-07, 10:33 AM

bram- sounds good. I would love a h55f hooked to an isuzu in my cruiser, would make my year if I could pull it off.

bram · 06-04-07, 05:42 PM

dieselcruiserhead: Could you measure up the input shaft of the NPR 5 speed for me? I need to know the length, diameter, # of splines, and the dims of the little bit on the end that centers it in the crank.

Does anyone know for sure tthat the 4BD1 and 4BD2TC are balanced with the flywheel on the motor? I am trying to figure out if its possible to put a spacer between the crank and the flywheel. If it is balanced with the flywheel I would think that moving it is out of the question. If its balanced internally then it might be. Moving the flywheel forward would make it a whole lot easier to mate the H55F input shaft to a clutch disk.