isuzu 4BD1T swap?!

HZJ60 Guy · 04-25-07, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by browndog

Dieseltim:

I figured you could probably get more power out of it, but the only reason I'm considering the Isuzu fours is fuel economy. I don't want to turn up fuel and boost in exchange for less economy.

There has to be a really strong reason for me to not go with a 1HD-T/FT with this swap.

Hey Browny, how bout CASH! That HDT/FT/FTE is going to cost you 10,000$.

A 4BT will cost you maybe 3,000$. The rest goes into the swap baby.....

browndog · 04-25-07, 05:15 PM

Tom:

Cash is a really strong reason. I would go with the 4BT but just can't swallow the 4 inches of lift required. I even checked on the newest version of the 4BT (QSB 3.9) but it's even BIGGER! Based on the success the aussies have had with the Chevy 6.5, I'm still leaning in that direction unless I get a SMOKIN deal on a HD-T or the Isuzu 4HE1 works out.

Cheers.

tdsltoy · 04-25-07, 09:19 PM

Anyone know what the factory bellhouse pattern is on the back of the 4bd2t and 4bd1t blocks? Been told that it might be a SAE #3. Anyone know different?

Dieseltim · 04-26-07, 12:32 PM

tdsltoy, check out this link to another thread. We have been talkin over the different bellhousings that these engines may have come with on here.

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=530

Dieseltim

dieselcruiserhead · 04-26-07, 03:04 PM

we pulled apart the 4BD-1T last night to get ready to have the sleeves pulled. Bill (88tlc - who's engine it is) scored a PDF from someone on this site (thanks again who ever that was) and printed it off.. Says its been invaluable... Anyway, it says you need to remove the whole front cover to get the crank out... But we were luckily able to get it out, just barely, by removing the bearing caps and oil pan only..

anyway I'll post up pics and details of the rebuild as they come along. Bill is saying he can find rebuilds for about $2G in parts alone

Expensive!!!

theSherpa · 04-27-07, 01:44 PM

Dre...any chance in the rebuild of that 4BD you could pull the motor plate (what the bellhousing bolts to) off the back of the block and get a tracing of the bolt pattern? Looking to see if back of 4BD block bolt pattern is same/different from 4HE...in other words, can we swap motor plates. TIA...

Steve and Andy (ASTR)

Dieseltim · 04-27-07, 08:05 PM

I talked to this place today and they told me that if you guys will call them, that they can make us a bell housing/ adapter that will allow the use of the 4bd1t / 4bd2tc engines to be used with what ever tranny that we like. They DO NOT have one right now but if enough interest is shown then they would be willing to make them.

So, everyone call them at 877.602.1500 and tell them that the 4bd1t engine is the one that you would like to have an adapter for and maybe we can get our wish.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/

If not then you are going to have to wait for me to get something done , and that maybe some time b4 I can get something designed that can be made inexpensively or be made at home. I would love to be able to make an adapter up that you could all make yourself or get drawings made up that you could take to a machine shop and have it made locally. Until then I am looking for any info I can.

Dieseltim

dieselcruiserhead · 04-27-07, 11:07 PM

Sure Steve no problem, we'll do that.. The Novak guys are local for us, I have a good friend who's got his shop across the street.. I will definitely call!

Dieseltim · 04-28-07, 02:33 PM

Ok, I am going to try to post some of my pics of my 4bd1t. I do have it running in the 2 pics of the sides.
Dieseltim

88tlc · 04-29-07, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieseltim

I talked to this place today and they told me that if you guys will call them, that they can make us a bell housing/ adapter that will allow the use of the 4bd1t / 4bd2tc engines to be used with what ever tranny that we like. They DO NOT have one right now but if enough interest is shown then they would be willing to make them.

So, everyone call them at 877.602.1500 and tell them that the 4bd1t engine is the one that you would like to have an adapter for and maybe we can get our wish.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/

If not then you are going to have to wait for me to get something done , and that maybe some time b4 I can get something designed that can be made inexpensively or be made at home. I would love to be able to make an adapter up that you could all make yourself or get drawings made up that you could take to a machine shop and have it made locally. Until then I am looking for any info I can.

Dieseltim

This is great if we can get them to make something. Do they need to know what we are adapting to? for example a 4bd1t to a A440F?

I will get you a life size tracing of the bolt pattern, of the flywheel housing that bolts to the engine. I had to take that off, to get the oil seal and crankshaft out.

arcteryx · 04-29-07, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by browndog

Based on the success the aussies have had with the Chevy 6.5, I'm still leaning in that direction unless I get a SMOKIN deal on a HD-T or the Isuzu 4HE1 works out.

Can you post links where their success is documented?

browndog · 04-29-07, 08:16 PM

Arcteryx:

Are you being sarcastic?

If not, you can check out www.marks4wd.com, Brunswick diesels, or Linquip diesels. Landcruisers Northwest is also doing a 6.5 swap right now in Portland. It's a good motor with some minor modification (heat sink, mechanical fuel pump, etc), is readily available, relatively cheap, and good power.

arcteryx · 04-29-07, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by browndog

Arcteryx:

Are you being sarcastic?

Not at all. I really would like to know more about how they are doing it. Thanks for the info. I know the 6.5 has some shortcomings, but with some mods, it is pretty reliable.

Cheers!

roscoFJ73 · 04-30-07, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcteryx

Not at all. I really would like to know more about how they are doing it. Thanks for the info. I know the 6.5 has some shortcomings, but with some mods, it is pretty reliable.

Cheers!

From speaking to the aussie companies that do the conversion they use mainly fully rebuilt engines.
They also have a favourite fuel pump that comes with the 6.5.
The best conversions install a custom radiator and do a mod to the auto trans to suit the 6.5 rpms
Lots of owners with 6.5 Landcruisers and Patrols on here if you ask a question http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Default.asp

Dieseltim · 04-30-07, 06:01 AM

88tlc, Novak is local for you guys. If you can, why don't you take the flywheel/adapter ring in to them so they can see what we need to have made. I would like to have it mated to an sae#3 or a Chevy or Chyl.(Jeep)bellhousing, any of these would be ok with me.

Dieseltim

dieselcruiserhead · 04-30-07, 12:54 PM

Thing is they don't do custom work, we will have to convince them... Not sure but sort of like convincing Advance Adapters to do custom work...

They are also up in Logan so still a couple hours away. But I hadn't thought about the Novak route, definitely worth pursuing, but I'm still not sure the Isuzu to LC would be a big seller for them, but am unsure. Maybe they will do a couple custom rounds though. Beauty is the 3FE is it's the same as 2F and earlier. So H55F 5 speed, Land Cruiser 4 speed, Land Cruiser automatic, will all bolt to such an adapter...

There are also custom bellhousing builders, there is one up in San Fransisco I talked to, "Bob Weir" not of the dead, but he was interested in the idea years ago before the Isuzu diesel swapper guy...

Anyway, RE novak.. Definitely worth pursuing..

theSherpa · 04-30-07, 12:57 PM

seems to me that if Novak made a Chevy bolt pattern motor plate (goes between block and bellhousing), then we could bolt up either a Chevy drivetrain with Chevy bellhousing or a cruiser drivetrain behind an AA or Downey bellhousing. That would open up the 4BD to the widest market, AND get them into cruisers. If 4HE motors share that motor plate bolt pattern, so much the better. Starter mounting concerns would be the issue with this approach, I've been told which way the starter mounts on the two series of motor, but I forget which is which...bellhousing mount (facing rearward) and motor plate mount (facing forward).

this might make this method harder than it looks...you'd probably want a new motor plate to mount the stock starter so it mates with stock Isuzu flywheel, and if the 4HE starter pinion is different diameter/tooth count/etc. then that would make it hard to cover both applications.

anyway, just flapping my gums, here.

Steve

dieselcruiserhead · 04-30-07, 01:32 PM

Whats tough here is Bill (88tlc) wants to use the land cruiser auto transmission, which is probably less desirable than a Chevy pattern, sales-wise... In the end it might still be cheaper to go with a built 700R4 and the IsuzudieselSwapper.com stuff...

Anyway, just talked to Novak, they are interested in doing it.. Sounds like the costs might be a little high but we would own the design. Again I think the big market for them is for H55F bolting, which I would do personally probably over a NV4500 if it were me, given this motor. We could do a Chevy pattern too, we are going to explore plate and entirely new flywheel housing options I think.. Looks like about ~two weeks before we go up there..

If anyone is interested in one of these let me know!

PurpleFJ62 · 04-30-07, 08:37 PM

seems confusing, good luck getting novak or AA do help you out. From my understanding I am looking for any diesel that fits my needs/wants with an SAE4 bellhousing.
http://www.phxgrp.com/transmission.htm

First item on the page, SAE 4 to GM 5.7L. Now you can throw a 350 in just about anything. So why not take an isuzu or any diesel, cat, cummins, perkins, etc, with a sae 4 housing, throw that adapter on the back of it, so now you have a diesel with the back of a 350, get your respective adapter from novak or AA. Seems logical to me, thats what I was going to do, have I been misslead. That combo will work, you can use mulitiple adapters?

dieselcruiserhead · 04-30-07, 10:59 PM

I have two more leads now on machine shops locally that do bellhousing work including Marlin's supplier, who it turns out I actually know as he's a cruiserhead.. Also Kurt from CruiserOutfitters has some connections at the machine shop at the Univ. of Utah in the mechanical engineering school so there is a possibility there as well..

cruiseroutfit · 05-01-07, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead

I have two more leads now on machine shops locally that do bellhousing work including Marlin's supplier, who it turns out I actually know as he's a cruiserhead.. Also Kurt from CruiserOutfitters has some connections at the machine shop at the Univ. of Utah in the mechanical engineering school so there is a possibility there as well..

Yup, get me some dimensions and I can work with both of said machine shops (and another option I have for you too Andre).

Ideally we have both mating surfaces to take to the U, assuming my old Prof. will be open to trying it out, we can jig it up on the coordinate machine and pull some dimensions. From there we start entering them into Solidworks, after that it can be converted to machine code.

Dieseltim · 05-01-07, 07:35 AM

Well my vote is for a bellhousing ring that will bolt up the the 4bd1t engine and give me a Chevy bolt pattern. I would think these would be the best selling item. If not a Chevy bolt then the next best would be an SAE, so I could bolt up an NV4500 from a Dodge.

Dieseltim

fjwagon · 05-01-07, 09:34 PM

That would be really nice. I have been wanting to convert a fj45lv but have not found a good canidate. 4BT or 6BT would be nice but rather not do a spring over.

RHINO · 05-03-07, 01:35 PM

ok so who wants to help me out with what the three cables are on the injector pump of a 4BD1T?? i know the one that runs to the top of the engine is prolly throttle, but what about the other two?

found this to help with bellhousing IDhttp://www.garbee.net/~cabell/sae.htm

65FJ45 · 05-04-07, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

These engines also come in 4wd NPR. THe Isuzu t.case has the front drive shaftto the right like a LC and the rear, from memory,slightly to the right.
Lengthwise its similar to a LC.
Now it might be a pain procuring one in the US but would save some work further down the track

Does anyone know if the automatic would have and OD?

Dieseltim · 05-04-07, 06:04 AM

Ok Rhino,

The cable that runs to the back of the engine at the top is the thottle, the one that is closest to the engine is the fuel shutoff (forward is on). The one to the outside I think is for the cruise control. Look at the 2nd pic I have posted above. Oh, thanks for the SAE number chart.

Dieseltim

74TLC · 05-04-07, 08:50 AM

If anyone has a spare connecting rod Im going to need one for my 85 motor. Or if anyone has found any good prices for parts Id appreciate any info. Im sure its going to need much more but the rod bolt/cap broke off and rod is wedged between crank and block now. No apparent crack in block(crossing my fingers) so I hope it will be OK.

RHINO · 05-04-07, 03:26 PM

dieseltim thanks for the info ! thats exactly what i thought. since i dont have the whole truck can you do me another favor, how does the fuel shutoff operate from isuzu? is the cable attached to an electric servo? i will prolly just run a push pull cable under the dash for a poor mans security feature.

PurpleFJ62 · 05-06-07, 02:06 PM

about the proposed isuzu adapter ring. Wouldent you also need to have some kind of flexplate/flywheel spacer the exact same thickness as the ring. I guess you would have to make it bolt to the crank, and then have your chevy bolts pattern on the other side.
Isint there already one of these rings being made?

A sidenote, if converting to isuzu power, can a stock gasoline fj62 fuel system be modified to work, or would it be better to buy a diesel system and bolt it in?

I have herd some talk about keeping the toyo AC pump and putting it on the isuzu, and thoughts there? What about getting a complete isuzu with alt, ps, ac, and just make some new lines to hook them up. How does the toyo ac pump turn on? Just a wire that hooks up to it?

-nate-

RHINO · 05-06-07, 07:24 PM

yeah the adapter is already out there for GM trannies, i have one and went back and forth with NV4500 but decided on a 700r4 behind my isuzu.

stock carburated gas system doesnt need to be modified, its just a tank and lines, if 62's have in tank pumps then you just need to remove it.

not sure why a toyo ac pump would need to be kept, the isuzu pump is the same style. maybe a different size? PS pump is built into the block and gear driven

based on my tape measure the round bellhousing on the isuzu engines is not any SAE.