isuzu 4BD1T swap?!

astr · 02-19-07, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead

trans don't want to speak too much about what he is thinking/considering.. But options are:

NV4500
H55F
somehow reusing the factory 5 speed that came with it...

or 700R4
or the stock A440F in his FJ62...

Not sure what combo / adapters etc he will run. He got a good deal on the whole combo, engine and trans and it was factory Isuzu rebuilt and looks to be semi low mileage as far as I can tell...

Here is a pic of the trans from the cab over...

Fantastic to see someone moving forward with the swap. I will be following this one closely as I hope to do the same swap. Of particular interest to me is how you resolve the tranny match-up.

I do have the Isuzu FSM's for several years that I can scan and get to you as pdfs if it would be of any help.

Good luck - Andy

88tlc · 02-20-07, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astr

Fantastic to see someone moving forward with the swap. I will be following this one closely as I hope to do the same swap. Of particular interest to me is how you resolve the tranny match-up.

I do have the Isuzu FSM's for several years that I can scan and get to you as pdfs if it would be of any help.

Good luck - Andy

Andy,

thanks for the interest. I want to get it running on the stand, and make sure everything looks good, then we will move towards the hookup and install.

it would be great to get a couple key images of the FSM.

can I contact in PM?

thanks,

bill

tntoyota · 02-21-07, 01:06 AM

Never mind found it $1-$2,000 but I found it, THX

dieselcruiserhead · 03-22-07, 02:21 AM

For 88tlc who is not on here too much.. We fired up the 4BD1T last night, it was killer.. Did a compression check, at least ~350 on all cylinders other than #1.. We lost an O-ring on the comression tester so not sure about #1 but don't see why it would be low.. Unless maybe a valve is loose perhaps..

Anyway, 60 psi of oil pressure. Nice and quiet motor. I have a nice cleaned up 4BT sitting in the frame of my new 55 now, but man I was envious of this little motor, just sounded so much better, wasn't rattling around like crazy..

It's running in all these pics (sorry for the double post in both threads)...

roscoFJ73 · 03-22-07, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead

For 88tlc who is not on here too much.. We fired up the 4BD1T last night, it was killer.. Did a compression check, at least ~350 on all cylinders other than #1.. We lost an O-ring on the comression tester so not sure about #1 but don't see why it would be low.. Unless maybe a valve is loose perhaps..

Anyway, 60 psi of oil pressure. Nice and quiet motor. I have a nice cleaned up 4BT sitting in the frame of my new 55 now, but man I was envious of this little motor, just sounded so much better, wasn't rattling around like crazy..

It's running in all these pics (sorry for the double post in both threads)...

Dont all those engines and tractors get in the way of the TV

Do you need the bellhousing or tranny attached to start these?

dieselcruiserhead · 03-22-07, 02:44 AM

LOL we do have some pretty plush seating in the shop there. Mostly old couches as we are getting in our late 20s and finally "upgrading" from our ratty old college couches, but can't bring ourselves to get rid of them. So they live from our shop, LOL...

dieselcruiserhead · 04-04-07, 10:34 AM

Bill never posted.. Bad news is cyl #1 on the engine is scored up pretty bad.. It is a factory reman with low mileage too, but that #1 cyl was hurting... Here are some pics.. So I think we are in for a rebuild, but luckily they are sleeved, pretty easy to do...

dieselcruiserhead · 04-04-07, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

Dont all those engines and tractors get in the way of the TV

Do you need the bellhousing or tranny attached to start these?

Sorry forgot to answer.. No all you need is the starter and flywheel attached to actually turn the engine over...

Dieseltim · 04-04-07, 01:54 PM

I hope you guys won't mind me joining in, I too am working on a 4bd1t / 4bd2tc swap. I have been gathering up parts and pieces for about 6 months now and as of yesterday I have now gotten a 4bd2tc with manuel tranny, to go along with the NPR truck that I bought just to get the 4bd1t engine out of. The truck only had 86,000mi on it, but was parked because the auto tranny quit. I know this is not really the same swap as most of you are trying, so plz don't flame me too badly, but I am attempting to put the 4bd2tc into my 86 CJ7. I noticed that at least one of you lives in Atl. I am about 35miles south of Atl. so maybe we can get together and work out some of the adaper problems. I do have a machine shop that we can use to fab up some of the parts that might be needed.

Dieseltim

dieselcruiserhead · 04-04-07, 02:28 PM

No worries Tim we are all super friendly around here..

We also have one of those 5 speeds floating around if you need one. Not sure what we'd sell it for but its in good shape

Dieseltim · 04-17-07, 01:29 PM

I found something interesting yesterday. I was looking at another later model of npr GM W50, I asked the guy at the shop where it was at if he knew anything about the transmission that it had in it and more to the point about the adapter ring between the engine and tranny. Well guess what, it had an Allison tranny and it was bolted up with out any aditional adapters or anything else. So, that means that if I can get the right part #s we maybe on to a way to put a nv4500 or something else made in the USA behind this little 3.9. I am going to try to get more info about these engine rings from GMC truck or Isuzu.

Dieseltim

BigGun J · 04-17-07, 07:09 PM

Hi,
Is there an adapter to run the 700R4 to the FJ60 transfer case? Or is there a transfer case that fits to the 700R4 that is off set to match the cruiser axcels? I emailed the guy with the adapter and he has them in stock. He said you could run a manual transmision if you use the 70's era corvette flywheel and machine out the center of the adapter to fit the input shaft bushing. I would prefer to stay with a manual but could go auto if there was a transfer case option. My 2F is tierd and the main goal when I bought her was to convert to diesel. Toyota diesel are alot of money and the cummins is to deep for me. I have a 2 1/5" OME lift and would prefer not to go higher. Plus the Isuzu availability is nice option.

Jim

BigGun J · 04-17-07, 11:17 PM

Marks4WD has an adapter to mount the 700R4 to the transfercase. I need to do some more home work but I am getting abit jazzed! I just might take this plunge?

Jim

Dieseltim · 04-18-07, 09:59 AM

Well, I have some more good news to share. I had an hr or so last night b4 it got dark, so I thought it would be a good idea to see if the engine that I have in my little NPR truck would at least turn over. It had been about 7 yrs since it was on the road, at least that is the last insurance card I could find.
I was very surprised to have it fire up and run smooth

as soon as I jumpered the starter ( the tranny is missing, so there is no neutral switch). Now on to getting it pulled out and dropped into the Jeep.

Dieseltim

astr · 04-18-07, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieseltim

I found something interesting yesterday. I was looking at another later model of npr GM W50, I asked the guy at the shop where it was at if he knew anything about the transmission that it had in it and more to the point about the adapter ring between the engine and tranny. Well guess what, it had an Allison tranny ....

Dieseltim

Are you sure it wasn't an Aisin tranny? The Aisin AW450 transmissions were used from about 1999 and on.

Dieseltim · 04-18-07, 01:39 PM

Well, the guy that I was talking to is the one that rebuilds the transmissions at this shop and he crawled under the NPR truck and looked at it and told me it says "ALLISON" on the bottom of the pan, and he had one just like it up on the bench he was rebuilding. He said that it was the same 542 allison that was in the truck outside. So, I am pretty sure he would know if it was not an allison, as he rebuilds them everyday.

I am trying to get a part # from isuzu for the ring to be able to bolt up that allison, if I can get it to an SAE bolt pattern then we are all in luck.

Dieseltim

nickwood48 · 04-19-07, 03:58 PM

Not to be a buzzkill, but Aisin looks an awful lot like Allison if your reading it upside down under a rig. I hope it really is an Allison though-

Dieseltim · 04-20-07, 05:58 AM

Ok, to settle this? I will find that truck again and take a pic of the unit in question. It may be a few weeks before I can find it again, it went back into service, but I know where it parks.

Dieseltim

Dieseltim · 04-20-07, 12:29 PM

I just got off the phone with David at "isuzuswapper" he just told me that up till 85 4bd1 (b4 they were turbo) engines came with chevy transmissions and they were "SAE" housings. In 85 they change to Japanesse automatic tranmissions and these took different flywheel housings. So, if you can find an older 4bd1 engine you can get a ring and bolt up what ever domestic tranny you like.

Dieseltim

astr · 04-20-07, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieseltim

I found something interesting yesterday. I was looking at another later model of npr GM W50, I asked the guy at the shop where it was at if he knew anything about the transmission that it had in it and more to the point about the adapter ring between the engine and tranny. Well guess what, it had an Allison tranny and it was bolted up with out any aditional adapters or anything else. So, that means that if I can get the right part #s we maybe on to a way to put a nv4500 or something else made in the USA behind this little 3.9. I am going to try to get more info about these engine rings from GMC truck or Isuzu.

Dieseltim

You might well be right about the Allison attached to an Isuzu. Right now there is a 6-cyl Isuzu turbo diesel with an Allison tranny on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ISUZU-6-CYL-DIES...QQcmdZViewItem

I emailed the seller to find out more. It is a 6-cylinder but it may share the bell housing bolt pattern with a 4-cyl. Very interesting!

browndog · 04-20-07, 03:14 PM

I'm still in research mode for my diesel 80 swap and am considering Isuzu. I'm worried that the 4BD2T would be just enough power to get the beast moving but not enough to make me happy.

Anyone have any thoughts on the 4HEI (replaced the 4BD series)? I'd like a few more than 135 horse and around 300 ft lbs, so this motor seems better but I'm not sure about tranny options, etc.

Cheers

astr · 04-21-07, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by browndog

Anyone have any thoughts on the 4HEI (replaced the 4BD series)? I'd like a few more than 135 horse and around 300 ft lbs, so this motor seems better but I'm not sure about tranny options, etc.

Cheers

I'm also considering the 4HE1. It is rated @ 175 hp and 347 ft.-lb. torque. Most of them come with the Aisin AW450 tranny, and, as Sherpa on this board pointed out, they appear to be very similar to the A440.

The 4HE1 appears to have the following advantages over the 4BD1/2: more power and torque, newer engine technology, and gear-driven overhead cam. Both engines have gear-driven power steering pumps, are 12 volt, are quieter than the Cummins and are widely available. Both engines use the Bosch-type inline injection pumps

The disadvantages over the 4BD1/2 are: The 4HE1 is more expensive to buy and rebuild, exhaust manifold and turbo is on the right side, starter mounts on the left side from the rear which could result in some interference problem with the firewall or floor, and more engine control electronics, although I think it would run without the electronics.

The AW450 trany seems to be a variant of the LC's A440F. I've picked up a used AW450 and am working with Sherpa to indentify the similarities and differences. So far it looks hopeful that either the AW450 can be mated to a LC T-case by swapping out the AW450 tail shaft, or a A440F could be mated to the 4HE1 by using the bell housing and torque converter from the AW450.

The AW450 is entirely electronically-controlled so would require the wiring and ECU for it to work.

I'll post more about the AW450/A440 compatibility as I find out.

88tlc · 04-22-07, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigGun J

Marks4WD has an adapter to mount the 700R4 to the transfercase. I need to do some more home work but I am getting abit jazzed! I just might take this plunge?

Jim

I also am working on getting a 4bd1T into a fj62. advanced adaptors has the adaptor to connect the 700r4 to the LC TC.

I have not decided on the transmission yet, and have been waiting to get a LC housing. some of the other options you guys are looking at seem great too!

keep digging!

browndog · 04-22-07, 02:22 PM

ASTR:

Awesome. I'm currently in research mode for my swap and am still considering the Isuzu option, although the 4HE1 is the only one I think I'll be happy with power-wise. Let me know if there is any way I can contribute to your research efforts. If you can figure out how to do an HE1 swap I will be eternally grateful.

At the moment I'm favoring a Chevy 6.5 swap for power and parts reasons, although a 1HD-t/FT is still an option.

Cheers.

browndog · 04-22-07, 02:28 PM

Couple more thoughts:

A disadvantage ASTR cites is turbo/exhaust exit on passenger's side--this is an advantage for 80 series because that is the way the FZ-FE is set up. When I did my 13BT swap I had this issue, but running the exhaust down the passenger side was no big deal and a better solution than trying to cross under/over the frame.

I wonder if the HE1 works for the A440 if it will work for an A442.

Dieseltim · 04-23-07, 02:10 PM

Browndog, you need to check out the guys at outerlimits4x4.com they are turning up the boost and fueling to get lots more power out of that little 3.9.

Dieseltim

BigGun J · 04-23-07, 08:37 PM

Swett little thing!
Today at work I saw an NPR truck off loading some stuff. The guy was cool. He tilted the cab and we had a bit of a chat. He was amazed that I wanted to swap it into my cruiser. He shares it with three other drivers. None of them have had any problems. He carries medical equipment so it is not a real heavy load. He said the thing moves right along. It had the intercolled 2t. I saw a couple more for sale near my home so hopefully over the weekend I can run one about. I have never driven one or heard it run. The guy today got away before I could get back out to hear it run.

Jim

browndog · 04-24-07, 08:45 AM

Dieseltim:

I figured you could probably get more power out of it, but the only reason I'm considering the Isuzu fours is fuel economy. I don't want to turn up fuel and boost in exchange for less economy.

There has to be a really strong reason for me to not go with a 1HD-T/FT with this swap.

tdsltoy · 04-24-07, 09:50 PM

Glad to find this thread. Working on 4bd2t swap into '93 toy 4x4 ex-cab p/u. Still trying to find part number for phantom oem adapter mating isuzu to chev trans. Should be no problem to then mate 700R4 to toy t-case. With the way fuel costs are rising and the loads (around 2.5K lbs.) pulled this setup will be an excellent combonation since a full size would be an overkill. Any help much appreciated.

Dieseltim · 04-25-07, 07:12 AM

I don't know if this will help any of you that are trying to adapt gm trannys to 4bd engines but I dug thru some of my old info and found a place that sells all kinds of adapters. They have several pages, so follow the links to see what else they have.

http://www.phxgrp.com/transmission.htm

Dieseltim