isuzu 4BD1T swap?!

dieselcruiserhead · 01-11-07, 06:45 PM

yeah I know Steve, reread the post

Anywhoo, it is still pretty cool. I have a good friend who is leaning towards this for his FJ62. Will keep posted if he gets it! Andre

Bennett · 01-17-07, 09:03 PM

http://www.isuzudieselswapper.com/ posted earlier

hks3sgte · 01-18-07, 11:49 AM

My dad had an Isuzu NPR for about 15 years. He always had a spare 4bd1. That thing looks really big and heavy. Anyone know the actual weight and dimensions of that engine? How does it compare to say a 2F or even a 3B?

astr · 01-18-07, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hks3sgte

My dad had an Isuzu NPR for about 15 years. He always had a spare 4bd1. That thing looks really big and heavy. Anyone know the actual weight and dimensions of that engine? How does it compare to say a 2F or even a 3B?

Here is a link to the dimension specifications for a 4BG1T which is dimensionaly similar to a 4BD1T. http://www.isuzu.co.jp/world/product...f/b_draw02.pdf

I haven't found a weight but plan on weighing mine when I get it pulled from the truck.

You state that your dad always had a spare 4BD1T. Is that because he had a lot of problems with the engine?

Andy

hks3sgte · 01-18-07, 04:05 PM

Thanks for the link. He NEVER had any problems. Always changed all filters and kept everything new. Was used everyday with full payload. The reason he had a spare was cuz the engine blew an oil line on his way back from Needles, CA. He threw another 4B to get back home and rebuilt the blown one and kept it as a "back up". He sold the NPR and the spare engine for $3.000. Now my dad owns a Hino.

88tlc · 01-19-07, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astr

This swap keeps coming up time and time again! Please, someone do it and document it so that I have some one's example to follow.

I have a 4BD1T and a 4BD2T that I am considering swapping into my FJ62 after I finish my SOA (might be a while at my speed). The 4BD1T's came in Isuzu NPR trucks from '86 to '91. They were turboed but not intercooled and were rated at 121 hp @ 3000 rpm and 232 ft-lb @ 1800 rpm. They use an in-line mechanically-controlled injection pump and are direct-injected. The 4BD2T is basically the same block as the 4BD1T but the head configuration is changed to indirect injection. The 4BD2T's came in Isuzu NPR trucks (also re-badged as Chevy and GMC) from '92 to '97. They were rated @ 135 hp @ 2800 rpm and 255 ft-lbs @ 1900 rpm. The 4BD2Ts were intercooled in addition to turboed and I suspect the intercooler was primarily responsible for the increase in hp and torque.

The latter (4HE1TC) engines increased displacement from 3.9 to 4.8 liters, went to an overhead cam configuration and went to electronic controls on the injection. They also swapped the intake and exhaust sides of the engine so they are opposite to that of a LC. These engines were rated at 142 hp for manual transmission models and 175 hp for the automatics.

My understanding is that the bell housings are not interchangeable between the 4BD and the 4HE series engines.

I've been following the various threads discussing installing these engines in LCs but have not come across anyone who has actually done one, although some claim that it had been done. No one seems to dispute that this might be a great swap.

Most people seem to want to mate the Isuzu engine to a LC transmission or to another transmission for which there are adapters to LC TC (ie NV4500). I would like to consider using the stock Isuzu manual 5-speed and mating it to the LC TC, possibly using the Toybox as an adapter. Not at all sure if this is feasible.

The MSA5D 5-speed fully synchro manual transmission that comes with a 4BD1T has a 5.67 1st gear and 5th gear is 1:1 (no OD). Everyone that I know that has experience with these transmissions say they are bullet-proof.

The down side of using the Isuzu transmission is 1) mating the output to a LC TC, 2) setting up a means of shifting as these are not top-shifted but rather use a series of external rods and levers to connect the transmission to the shift lever.

I'd love to see someone undertake this swap project and post their experiences here.

I may take you up on that ! Looked at a 4BD1T the other day, out of the truck, with the 5spd tranny attached.

I would like to consider a swap of the engine only, and marry it up to the Automatic tranny in the TLC (4 speed overdrive). Same bolt pattern?

This would be a town car of course. not a lot of lift, good efficient tires.

astr · 01-20-07, 12:49 PM

The rear view photo of the engine shows an exhaust brake. You can raise hell with the neighbors late at night!

88tlc · 01-24-07, 05:33 PM

yeah a very cool exhaust brake. Utilize that for sure.

Still looking for more info on connecting an isuzu 4bd1T, to the toyota a440F automatic transmission? this transmission has an overdrive, and cruises at 2000rpm/60mph.

Can i get that hooked up? Seems like guys hook up the auto transmission to GM, V8 350s (same bolt pattern as a GM transmission).

Measure twice, cut once.

bill

astr · 01-24-07, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88tlc

yeah a very cool exhaust brake. Utilize that for sure.

Still looking for more info on connecting an isuzu 4bd1T, to the toyota a440F automatic transmission? this transmission has an overdrive, and cruises at 2000rpm/60mph.

Can i get that hooked up? Seems like guys hook up the auto transmission to GM, V8 350s (same bolt pattern as a GM transmission).

Measure twice, cut once.

bill

I think you have a better chance of winning the jackpot lottery twice in a row than having the TLC auto match the 4BD1T. I don't have either the a440f or the 4BD1 out of their respective vehicles so I don't have a way to actually compare bolt patterns. At the best, one might be able to fab a simple plate adapter but I doubt it.

I'm going to be tied up with work-related projects for at least the next couple of months so I don't expect to get the 4BD1T pulled until this Spring at the earliest.

theSherpa · 01-26-07, 09:58 AM

Am I the only one who's noticed that the NPR auto transmission is an Aisin A450? I've seen pictures of them on eBay. The A440 and A450 both have a detachable bellhousing. Am I the only one who's wondered if the front side of the A440 and A450 might happen to have the same bolt pattern? If so, you *might* be able to use an NPR auto bellhousing on the front of an A440. Of course, you'd still have to deal with flex plate and torque converter issues, but it's a possibility...you'd probably have to have an A450 and an A440 next to each other to figure it out.

Steve

P.S. Google never ceases to amaze me. This quote: "AW450-43LE is a replacement for the JR403E
truck transmission and is similar to Toyota A442F." comes from this .pdf, which seems to indicate a lot of parts shared between the A450 and A440/442: http://www.shinseiauto.com/japanese/.../ata440f04.pdf

Also, according to George (orangefj45) it may have only been used in NPR's from '98 up, so you might not have one in your back yard...

astr · 01-26-07, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theSherpa

Am I the only one who's noticed that the NPR auto transmission is an Aisin A450? I've seen pictures of them on eBay. The A440 and A450 both have a detachable bellhousing. Am I the only one who's wondered if the front side of the A440 and A450 might happen to have the same bolt pattern? If so, you *might* be able to use an NPR auto bellhousing on the front of an A440. Of course, you'd still have to deal with flex plate and torque converter issues, but it's a possibility...you'd probably have to have an A450 and an A440 next to each other to figure it out.

Steve

That would be great! I have both a A440 and an Isuzu automatic. Unfortunately, the Isuzu is under a pile of snow, however, I'll try to take a look.

to you if you are correct!

theSherpa · 01-26-07, 10:27 AM

check my "p.s."

astr · 01-26-07, 11:15 AM

The 1988 Isuzu manual that I have is very vague on the model of automatic. The one in my back yard with the automatic is a 1994. I'll crawl under it this weekend and see if I can id the transmission.

dieselcruiserhead · 01-26-07, 06:17 PM

how do you like that. Nice work Steve.. I have been on the back end of figuring this out too, very cool...

astr · 01-29-07, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theSherpa

....Also, according to George (orangefj45) it may have only been used in NPR's from '98 up, so you might not have one in your back yard...

I crawled under the 94 NPR and, sure enough, the transmission is a JR403E. The JR403E also has a seperate bellhousing but it looks a lot different than the A442F in my FJ62. I would doubt that the bellhousing portions would interchange.

I found a transmission cross listing which confirmed what George said that the Aisin 450-43L was introduced in 1999. In 1999, the 4HE1-TC engine was being installed in the Isuzu NPR and that engine, according to David of http://www.isuzudieselswapper.com/, has a totaly different back end so transmissions are not interchangeable with the 4BD1/2 engines.

Here are some photos of the JR403E case that happens to be listed on ebay:

boaty · 01-31-07, 01:25 AM

I bought a couple of these engines (one NA and the other turbo) to hopefully swap into cruisers....the kit a few months back to mate to a chevy automatic ran pretty steep (something like $800) so it is not cheap but probably the easiest route although I don't know what it takes for the chevy tran to transfer case???

I doubt I will be able to try to figure this out till after summer because of lack of $$$....these engines are real quiet which is great and they are sleeved and can run along time with great mileage.

astr · 01-31-07, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theSherpa

Am I the only one who's noticed that the NPR auto transmission is an Aisin A450? I've seen pictures of them on eBay. The A440 and A450 both have a detachable bellhousing. Am I the only one who's wondered if the front side of the A440 and A450 might happen to have the same bolt pattern? If so, you *might* be able to use an NPR auto bellhousing on the front of an A440. Of course, you'd still have to deal with flex plate and torque converter issues, but it's a possibility...you'd probably have to have an A450 and an A440 next to each other to figure it out.

Steve

P.S. Google never ceases to amaze me. This quote: "AW450-43LE is a replacement for the JR403E
truck transmission and is similar to Toyota A442F." comes from this .pdf, which seems to indicate a lot of parts shared between the A450 and A440/442: http://www.shinseiauto.com/japanese/.../ata440f04.pdf

Also, according to George (orangefj45) it may have only been used in NPR's from '98 up, so you might not have one in your back yard...

From a press realease by Transtec, a supplier of automatic transmission rebuild parts:

Isuzu box trucks built mid-1998 and later are equipped with the new Aisin Warner / Toyota
450-43LE transmission. This replaces the Nissan JR403E previously used in this application.
The unit is a derivative of the A442F unit used in Landcruisers up to 1995.

boaty · 01-31-07, 05:54 PM

nice find there.....

I wonder what engine models from mid 1998 forward?? And if earlier models such as the 4bd1 or 4bd2 would mate??? I am unsure if 4bd2 was still producted at that time??

Do you know if the LC transmission shared will fit 40 series with the original axels as to the offsets??

thanks

pjohnson · 01-31-07, 06:32 PM

Georg... you haven't posted in your thread in a few days...

Have you seen the light and renewed your original idea of a 12HT?

Mine is here and waiting to be uncrated...

Maybe if I had posted the pics I promised a while ago your slip to the 'other' side would have been averted

[hijack off]

Great tech guys.

Phil

88tlc · 01-31-07, 06:53 PM

great work on some great information! Looking promising.

I found these guys in Australia that may have some bellhousing options that can help.

http://www.rodshop.com.au/bellhousings.htm

they have a long list of possibles that I am checking on.

bill

74TLC · 02-02-07, 07:52 PM

Short of it not having OD and figuring out how to make a shifter work the stock zuzu 5 sp with a divorced TC would probably be a nice set up. ..and its already bolted to the block.
I just bought a 86 NPR with a slung rod for $500 but it has a new turbo and starter . Didnt think I did too bad. Came with the factory rebuild manuals also. Missed a deal on a running 93 the other day for $1200...

astr · 02-04-07, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74TLC

Short of it not having OD and figuring out how to make a shifter work the stock zuzu 5 sp with a divorced TC would probably be a nice set up. ..and its already bolted to the block.
I just bought a 86 NPR with a slung rod for $500 but it has a new turbo and starter . Didnt think I did too bad. Came with the factory rebuild manuals also. Missed a deal on a running 93 the other day for $1200...

I've also thought about a divorced TC but can't find anyone who can convert the LC TC to a divorced configuration. You could just use a divorced TC but most existing divorced TC's have a centered rear output shaft that would not be compatible with the offset LC dif. I suppose you could purchase the back half of Marlin's Toy box and mate it to the LC TC and get the "divorced" adapter from OTT so you can drive the Toy Box with a drive shaft. This approach is very convoluted and would require addition TC mounts as you could no longer depend on the engine mounts to absorb the torque load as in a married configuration.

polarweasel · 02-04-07, 09:37 PM

I have a CAD drawing for a divorce plate, but haven't had the plate made yet. Once I get the plate made, we'll figure out seals and get an input shaft made. I'll try to remember to post up here (and in my own diesel conversion thread!) when that's done. It'll be a few weeks at least.

Bennett · 02-11-07, 08:43 AM

which T/c would you use with the divorced plate?

didn't AA use to use a plate years ago for Mini truck 4wd conversions?

polarweasel · 02-12-07, 12:55 PM

It's the divorced FJ60 case. Not sure on the AA plate. That'd be nice to see, if they did make one...

tntoyota · 02-18-07, 03:47 PM

Newbie here,

Please do a quick recap I am blueprinting (in my head)an Isuzu swap. I have just purchased a 92(A440F) Fj80 and a 3Fe that for obvious reasons will NOT be joining the LC in the future.

My thoughts are since I have herd the Izusu has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the chev. I was going to get an adaptor, an adaptor I have herd was discontiued but not impossable to find.

P.S The answer has got to be out there some where, the government had to have slipped up some where letting the diesels imported to this country in.

You cannot tell me there is not a diesel some where that will fit in my Toyota,
PLEASE dont make me have to custom make an OLD 4.3 diesel with custom headers, intercooler and twin turbo's or Damn, a 6.5 heavy chevy.

SOME ONE in this forum must have access to CAD/CAM and a Flow jet.

I WOULD PAY DEARLY for this (bellhousing) I know how to buy parts and could probobly source an engine free, or heck just pay for it.

I H8 9 MPG !!!!!!!!

roscoFJ73 · 02-18-07, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tntoyota

You cannot tell me there is not a diesel some where that will fit in my Toyota,

]

Your %100 correct .Toyota make 2-3 diesels and gearboxs that fit in there just like they were made too

They are quiet and powerful and enhance the resale $$

dieselcruiserhead · 02-18-07, 11:40 PM

88tlc who posted above just got a 4BD1T that is at my shop now for an install sometime this summer or spring.. As it comes along we'll post lots of pics and I'm sure he'll have plenty to input. Here are a couple pics of it though. Definetely big IMO, but much shorter vertically than the 4BT hence the lack of need for lots of lift. Pretty neat, can't wait to install it..

dieselcruiserhead · 02-18-07, 11:41 PM

More...

dieselcruiserhead · 02-18-07, 11:43 PM

trans don't want to speak too much about what he is thinking/considering.. But options are:

NV4500
H55F
somehow reusing the factory 5 speed that came with it...

or 700R4
or the stock A440F in his FJ62...

Not sure what combo / adapters etc he will run. He got a good deal on the whole combo, engine and trans and it was factory Isuzu rebuilt and looks to be semi low mileage as far as I can tell...

Here is a pic of the trans from the cab over...