isuzu 4BD1T swap?!

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by AJ60

Rhino, thanks for that link came in real handy. I still might need to get the 4bd1t engine manual because my engine is dated 10/85 and the turbo housing is in a different place which is where all my question are coming from. I have to do a little work on this motor because its spent all its life on Kodiak island (cosmetic wise). The good thing is that the motor only has 39K original miles (purres like a kitten) and I got it at a really good price so I guess a little elbow grease will pay off at the end. I think I am leaning more on the Chevy NV4500, its cheaper than the H55 but better than having the H42.

There are 3 different turbos that I know of.
A wastegated IHI-RHB6. My 85 year engine had one of these fitted. Good turbo but hard to get parts for.
A wastegated Garrett T25. Like bigfoot, I've seen blurry photos and individual parts but don't know where to find one.
A freefloating T25 (as per Rhino's engine) which bolts up to a T3 flanged exhaust manifold.

The freefloating T25 is the latest of the three and is the same turbo used on the 4BD2. I'm currently running a wastegated T25 (from a nissan 1.8l petrol engine) on mine with excellent results. Gives me 10psi boost before 1500rpm and delivers 19psi at 2000rpm if needed.

[euclid]

Originally Posted by RHINO

i just noticed that were over 500 replies and 23 thousand views, is that some kinda record??

Gotta be a record for the most theoretical thread ever.

[astr]

Originally Posted by euclid

Gotta be a record for the most theoretical thread ever.

RHINO has one running!

[euclid]

Originally Posted by astr

RHINO has one running!

that makes 1

[theSherpa]

ASTR and I looked at that...search for our posts. The backside of the AW450 has the same bolt pattern as the A440F, so the A440F's transfer case adapter would likely bolt up, BUT the A440F's output shaft is different length, diameter and spline count than 2WD AW450. *Maybe* an A440F's output shaft would swap in to the AW450, that's something he was hoping to investigate (he had the AW450, I had the A440F). Used A440F output shafts usually have heavily worn splines, so that's a factor when looking to junkyard this dealio. A440F's are also same bolt pattern on the front side, so you could conceiveably do a bellhousing swap to put the A440F/transfer behind the 4HE1, but not only is the A440F input shaft different, but nobody thinks a stock, used A440F is going to hold up to a 4HE1 even if you ignore the high stall of the A440F's torque converter. And building up an A440F wouldn't be cheap.

And I have no idea how similar an A440F's transfer case is to an HF2AV...

Does seem like it could likely work with a custom AW450 output shaft, to me, if the A440F's output shaft would not swap into the AW450.

If I misspoke at all in any of the above, please holler, as I'm a bear of very little brain.

Steve

Originally Posted by alaskacruiser

Hi everyone- looks like I'm late to the game here, but I just finished reading up on this thread. I've been considering an Isuzu diesel swap for over a year now, but did not have enough info. This thread answered a lot of questions.

Is anyone looking into this config for an FZJ80:
Engine: Isuzu 4HE1
Tranny: AW450
Transfer Case: existing HF2AV (FZJ80)

It seems to me this might be the easiest swap because:

1. it does not require an adapter from engine to tranny (although it may require one for the HF2AV transfer case)
2. for those of us in CA, we must obtain an engine with a build date equal to or newer than the vehicle it is going into for it to be legal, which narrows it down to the 4BD2 or the 4HE1

But has anyone looked into the basics of this config like clearance issues, etc? Has Rodney from Wholesale Automatics in AU responded to the questions about the AW450? Does he offer an extreme tranny rebuild on the AW450?

[astr]

Originally Posted by theSherpa

ASTR and I looked at that...search for our posts. The backside of the AW450 has the same bolt pattern as the A440F.......

I have both the AW450 and a A440F transmissions in my possession. My intent is to do a side by side comparison of the two with hopes of combining parts from both to come up with a hybrid that will allow a 4HE1 to be mated to the TLC split t-case. I have great intention, just haven't had the time. When I do get to it, I'll post results.

The AW450 was never availble with the 4BD1/2 engines therefore this will be of little help for those looking to swap in a 4BD1/2.

[alaskacruiser]

theSherpa and astr- thanks for the info!

I was looking into the transfer case compatibility issue earlier in terms of A440F w/ an HF2AV and here is what I found:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/147536-a440f-tranny-w-hf2av-tc.html

So it looks like one tranny option is a hydraulic A442F from Rodney at Wholesale Automatics. I will have to followup with him and find out about A440F compatibility with the HF2AV.

User lagwagon also said he would look into this since he has/had an A440F and HF2AV out to compare so I just PM'd him about it.

Hope this helps!

[astr]

Originally Posted by alaskacruiser

theSherpa and astr- thanks for the info!

I was looking into the transfer case compatibility issue earlier in terms of A440F w/ an HF2AV and here is what I found:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=147536

So it looks like one tranny option is a hydraulic A442F from Rodney at Wholesale Automatics. I will have to followup with him and find out about A440F compatibility with the HF2AV.

User lagwagon also said he would look into this since he has/had an A440F and HF2AV out to compare so I just PM'd him about it.

Hope this helps!

Just looking at pictures in the FSM, it looks like the output shaft configurations on the A440F and the AW450 are very similar so it might be feasible to swap them. I don't have any information on the A442F. Here are the FSM pictures for the A440F and AW450 transmissions:

[AJ60]

Originally Posted by Dougal

There are 3 different turbos that I know of.
A wastegated IHI-RHB6. My 85 year engine had one of these fitted. Good turbo but hard to get parts for.
A wastegated Garrett T25. Like bigfoot, I've seen blurry photos and individual parts but don't know where to find one.
A freefloating T25 (as per Rhino's engine) which bolts up to a T3 flanged exhaust manifold.

The freefloating T25 is the latest of the three and is the same turbo used on the 4BD2. I'm currently running a wastegated T25 (from a nissan 1.8l petrol engine) on mine with excellent results. Gives me 10psi boost before 1500rpm and delivers 19psi at 2000rpm if needed.

Yep, my turbo be the first one IHI-RHB6. Your right about it being pretty hard to find parts for. Dougal, are you running the free floating T25 on your 85' 4bd1 currently? If so, what type of mods did you have to do to use it?

[79fj40moneypit]

I just spent a bunch of time reading this thread, I would like this in a 60 also it should be a nice setup, I have driven a NPR and they go pretty well, I even considered putting one in my chevy box truck in place of the 6.5 (after I blew the second one) but the emmisons and computer would need to work so I passed. but in a 60 it should br great. especially if it didn't need a lift.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by AJ60

Yep, my turbo be the first one IHI-RHB6. Your right about it being pretty hard to find parts for. Dougal, are you running the free floating T25 on your 85' 4bd1 currently? If so, what type of mods did you have to do to use it?

I'm running a wastegated T25 at the moment. It's originally off a Nissan CA18DET petrol motor. Has 0.49 A/R exhaust housing for very quick spool.
I have some boost at 1200rpm, 10psi by about 1400rpm and 19psi before 2000rpm.

It goes very well.

[andrew.fletcher]

Can someone confirm vehicle weight on a '93 16' Isuzu box truck. I could only find one listing on line which gave it a weight of around 12-16,000 lbs. I'm looking at one that will need to be trailered so I've got to find a truck/trailer combo that can handle it.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by andrew.fletcher

Can someone confirm vehicle weight on a '93 16' Isuzu box truck. I could only find one listing on line which gave it a weight of around 12-16,000 lbs. I'm looking at one that will need to be trailered so I've got to find a truck/trailer combo that can handle it.

Cab chassis is about 2500kg for the NPR59. The bodies aren't factory and can vary a lot.

[astr]

Originally Posted by andrew.fletcher

Can someone confirm vehicle weight on a '93 16' Isuzu box truck. I could only find one listing on line which gave it a weight of around 12-16,000 lbs. I'm looking at one that will need to be trailered so I've got to find a truck/trailer combo that can handle it.

I have a 94 NPR 16' diesel box truck with automatic transmission and no lift gate. There is no weight on the title but an empty weight of 8,050 is placarded on the side of the truck. As Dougal pointed out, the weight can vary a lot depending on who made the box and what options there are. However, this shoulld give you a good ball park number. The 12-16,000 lbs is most likely the maximum gross weight.

[andrew.fletcher]

Astr and Dougal-
Thanks for the correct weights. I've decided to part it in place and drop the scrap off at a local scrapyard.

Well it's taken me 6 months+ to find one but I finally got my Isuzu diesel. It's a 4BD2T that was torn down for a rebuild then never quite put back together. After sitting out in the elements for 3 years it had to be torn down again, gaskets replaced and should be ready to go in my FJ55 in a couple of weeks. Now I just need a tranny behind it.

This brings up question 1. Can I use this transmission with an adaptor to either the transfer case that's in the 55 or the TC that I have from an '85 FJ60? It's an automatic which is what I'm looking for.

Since I bought the whole truck I'm trying to figure out what all I should take off of it either to use on mine or try and sell. The truck itself is a lost cause. Even though there's no damage and it's only got 67k on it, it sat unregistered for 3+ years so the back fees on it make it un-appealing in one piece.

Parts I think I need that aren't on the engine:
Intercooler
Fuel shut off/enrichment motor/cables
Tranny- see above
Fuel/water separator
Radiator?

If anyone else had one they parted out, what's worth taking off to try and sell?
Cab-no damage
16' box
Power steering box
Brake calipers
What else???? It's about a 6 hour drive to where it's at, so I'm driving down, getting what I need then having the rest towed down the street for the scrap metal.

Drew

[astr]

Originally Posted by andrew.fletcher

.... Parts I think I need that aren't on the engine:
Intercooler
Fuel shut off/enrichment motor/cables
Tranny- see above
Fuel/water separator
Radiator?...
Drew

If it came with an exhaust brake (vacuum-activated butterfly valve downstream from the turbo) get that as well as the associated solenoids. Get the vacuum reservoir and get the engine shutdown/enrichment motor assembly. It should be mounted on the right side frame rail and connects to the injection pump with one or two cables. It probably is enclosed in a white plastic bag. Also consider getting all the electrical harness with the connectors intact. It is a lot of work to pull it but you'll be glad you have it when you begin the install into your 55. If the truck came with an automatic transmission and your are considering using it, be sure to get the transmission computer and the associated wiring harness.

My philosophy has been to pull anything that might possibly be useful. If you don't use it, you can always throw it away later. If you need it and have to buy it latter, it will probably cost a bunch.

Seems that the biggest hangup that everyone has encountered with this swap is the lack of suitable engine to transmission abapters or Isuzu transmission to Toy t-case adapters. RHINO has successfully installed a 4BD1 in his 55 using the Isuzuswapper adapter. I don't remember which tranny he used but it is posted somwhere here on MUD.

Good luck and keep us posted as to your progress.

[Dougal]

In addition to ASTR's comments, get the gear lever and clutch master/slave cylinders.

I'd also take the entire air intake system (cleaner, hose connections etc. They may be too big for what you need, but it's worth checking.

[andrew.fletcher]

My original plan was to go with the Isuzuswapper adapter which according to the website can use 200R4, 700R4, 4L60 and 4L60E automatic transmissions. Since I now have the transmission, I'm wondering if it will hold up. The challenge will be to either find an adapter or have one made for the transfer case. I don't plan to wheel it real hard so it may work for me.
You're right Astr, I think I'm gonna pull as much stuff off of it as I can or at least as much as will fit in the garage. I'm quickly running out of space as I keep getting more parts and haven't actually put anything on the truck yet! The biggest challenge for me is figuring out what's what. I never saw the engine in the truck and some parts were in storage, in the cab and in the back. What I really need is some diagrams.

I checked out Rhino's when I was in Phoenix last month, what a great ride! He's running the Isuzu adapter with an R150.

[RHINO]

andrew, a handfull of us here can prolly identify everything, pop a few pics or something and we can get ya all sorted.

[andrew.fletcher]

I took a few photos but not nearly enough of the underneath. Any help much appreciated. Looks like I've got a little bit of time before I head back down there again.

[astr]

Originally Posted by andrew.fletcher

I took a few photos but not nearly enough of the underneath. Any help much appreciated. Looks like I've got a little bit of time before I head back down there again.

Yes, that is the Fuel cutoff/enrichment thang. The motor mounts might still be attached to the motor.

[88tlc]

got the isuzu diesel, 4BD1T mounted up to a rebuilt 4L60 using the isuzu diesel swappers, then an AA adapter to the toyota transfer case. It all went to together really fast, it is amazing what you can do if you throw some money at it!

got the flywheel drilled by a machinist, so that I could attach the IDS spacer.

4L60 trans is a heavy duty K case transmission, with a custom converter for big torque low stall. the output shaft was replaced with the 2WD shaft, provided by the AA kit, so that it worked with the adapter and split case TC.

install flex plate, and adapter ring, and the 4L60 mounts up cleanly.

[88tlc]

another few pictures of the Diesel Train!

4bd1T -IDS - 4L60 - AA - TLC splitcase transfer case.

some details I would love some input on.

[88tlc]

we slid the whole thing into the FJ62, and it really fits pretty good.

the rear crossmember looks like it can bolt into the same location saving some removal and remounting, and reusing the existing driveshafts.

the motor mounts will be fabbed up from scratch, using a ford mount shown.

plenty of room in the front of the engine.

good clearance on the starter, turbo is a little close to the brake assy but I think will be okay

the pan to pumpkin clearance is perhaps 3 or 4 inches. I have OME lift that I will install to help some of the clearance, but as it sits now without the engine weight on the frame it seems pretty good.