isuzu 4BD1T swap?!

[astr]

Originally Posted by Dougal

It wasn't me (honest). It was done about 15 years ago using Austin Allegro parts.
The resulting pattern is
R24
135

Most vehicles here have reverse by 5th, but the Toyota Dyna light trucks at work have the same shift pattern.

Thanks for the info. The stock NPR truck has the same pattern as yours. I thought that maybe your mod may have flipped the pattern or reversed it from side to side.

[Dieseltim]

Originally Posted by acy76

I have a question on transmission choices, if I may:

Let's suppose someone wanted to use a 5-speed manual transmission that was made for the chevy V8 with this conversion (eliminates the need for additional adapters), along with a common passenger-drop transfer case, something like a Dana 300, BUT did not want to deal with the expense, weight or low 1st gear of the NV4500. Is there a stock combination that would work? Something from a 1/2- or 3/4-ton Chevy pickup? Or is the NV4500 the only game in town?

acy76,

I am looking for the NV3550 tranny that came in the 2000-2003 Jeeps. It has a higher first gear and weighs in at about 2/3 the weight of the bigger brother nv4500. It also direct bolts up to the Dana 300. And it has a nice OD ratio. Keep in mind I am installing this into an 86 CJ-7 Jeep.

Dieseltim

[bram]

Hey Dougal,

It looks like you have completed the solid model of the 4bd1t and gearbox, is that correct? I am having someone model the front end of the toyota 5 speed (including input shaft) and bellhousing right now. Still working on the FTP though. Summer vacation, school, and plenty of FJ60 maintenance are really taxing my efforts.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by bram

Hey Dougal,

It looks like you have completed the solid model of the 4bd1t and gearbox, is that correct? I am having someone model the front end of the toyota 5 speed (including input shaft) and bellhousing right now. Still working on the FTP though. Summer vacation, school, and plenty of FJ60 maintenance are really taxing my efforts.

It's not complete, possibly it never will as there'll always be something to add or improve.
But functionally it's almost there. I just need to put in the front timing gear cover and water pump.

I've been busy doing nothing lately. Mid winter holiday.

[andrew.fletcher]

I'm almost ready to start down this road with my '71 Pig (all stock, no P/S drum brakes, flat springs) but would like to get opinions from you smart guys out there. I'm most likely going the 4BD1T route like Rhino to minimize lift and an auto vs. 5 speed. This is going to be the family car. I've got an FJ60 roller with P/S and transfer case and I'm thinking maybe of dropping the Pig body onto that. I had read in some other posts that the 60 front axle was smaller than the 55 which means I can reduce lift, use 62 springs, have disc brakes and P/S already bolted to the frame. What's easier, making new body mounts or trying to mount all the 60 stuff to the Pig frame? Should I start another thread with this?

[RHINO]

the 60 axles are excactly the same, but a little wider. i'd say since its the family car dont bother with the 60 axles. you dont need the width since your not doing much lift. if you want the 3:70 gearing just swap 3rd's. so in that respect its much esier to mount the steering box to the 55 frame than new body mounts.

[RHINO]

hey on another note, i am planning on a tach at some point. what is the best place for a pick-up? just a generic flywheel one or is there something else made for the isuzu engine?

also, as ive been driving it for a while now i still sometimes forget to shift low enough and think i can rev up more, but the governer kicks in and reminds me. its a much lower revving engine than the numbers on paper would have you think, i'm glad i went with the overdrive tranny. i remember when looking at these engines in the early days of my swap options i was thinking that since i cruise at 2500rpm on the highway i might be ok with my four speed, glad i didnt, just going by ear i would say i MIGHT hit 2500 rpm when the governer kicks in but i think its even lower.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by RHINO

hey on another note, i am planning on a tach at some point. what is the best place for a pick-up? just a generic flywheel one or is there something else made for the isuzu engine?

also, as ive been driving it for a while now i still sometimes forget to shift low enough and think i can rev up more, but the governer kicks in and reminds me. its a much lower revving engine than the numbers on paper would have you think, i'm glad i went with the overdrive tranny. i remember when looking at these engines in the early days of my swap options i was thinking that since i cruise at 2500rpm on the highway i might be ok with my four speed, glad i didnt, just going by ear i would say i MIGHT hit 2500 rpm when the governer kicks in but i think its even lower.

On my truck I'm using the alternator to supply the tacho pulse. It's output is a 7V ripple. The tacho in my truck runs on DC (someone converted it at some stage) so I made a little frequency converter circuit. It's quite simple, involved a single chip and about half a dozen components following the chip makers circuit design. The output is tunable, I still haven't got it completely right but it's within about 100rpm.

My engine is governed to 3600rpm, but it's definitely most comfortable running below 2500. I used to have it geared for 2500rpm at 100km, but recently geared it up to 2000rpm at 100km and saved 15% in fuel.
I was hoping for such an improvement (the BSFC curve said it might happen), but was ecstatic to actually acheive it.

[andrew.fletcher]

Originally Posted by Dougal

I used to have it geared for 2500rpm at 100km, but recently geared it up to 2000rpm at 100km and saved 15% in fuel.
I was hoping for such an improvement (the BSFC curve said it might happen), but was ecstatic to actually acheive it.

I have to plead ignorance here. What did you change in the gearing to get it to do that?

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by andrew.fletcher

I have to plead ignorance here. What did you change in the gearing to get it to do that?

I swapped my transfer box.
Old one was 1.2:1 high range, the replacement was 1.003:1 high range.

[Bush65]

Originally Posted by RHINO

hey on another note, i am planning on a tach at some point. what is the best place for a pick-up? just a generic flywheel one or is there something else made for the isuzu engine? ...

I remember reading in an Aus Land Rover forum, that a tacho sensor can be fitted in one of the plugs on the underside of the injection pump.

These are available from Isuzu dealers in Aus. Part #:- Tacho 8972403710 and sensor 8944402810.

[orangefj45]

Originally Posted by andrew.fletcher

I'm almost ready to start down this road with my '71 Pig (all stock, no P/S drum brakes, flat springs) but would like to get opinions from you smart guys out there. I'm most likely going the 4BD1T route like Rhino to minimize lift and an auto vs. 5 speed. This is going to be the family car. I've got an FJ60 roller with P/S and transfer case and I'm thinking maybe of dropping the Pig body onto that. I had read in some other posts that the 60 front axle was smaller than the 55 which means I can reduce lift, use 62 springs, have disc brakes and P/S already bolted to the frame. What's easier, making new body mounts or trying to mount all the 60 stuff to the Pig frame? Should I start another thread with this?

i'd put the 60 axles under the pig depending on how much lift you want. if you're going to stay stockish, then run the third members and disc barkes from the 60 on your existing axles.

gravel maker on here aka dan sells a kit that allows you to mount the 3" wider 60 series axles under a 40/45/55.

[andrew.fletcher]

[quote=orangefj45;2381552]i'd put the 60 axles under the pig depending on how much lift you want. if you're going to stay stockish, then run the third members and disc barkes from the 60 on your existing axles.

After asking around I decided swapping out thirds for my application is fine. I don't need the the high gearing and like u said, use the '60s brakes on it.

[RHINO]

thanks bush,,,,,

[Dougal]

Hey Rhino

I checked up on those parts for you (the ones Bush65 mentioned above).

The tacho is a current part and here at least was readily available, it's used on the Isuzu 4LE1 industrial engines, it's retail price was $NZ326 (plus tax).

The sensor it seems is less common, none in New Zealand but some showing up in stock in Australia. Retail on that part was $NZ175 plus tax.

[RHINO]

thanks for doing that dougal

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by RHINO

thanks for doing that dougal

No problem. You lucked out that I was already calling them today.

[RHINO]

hard to believe but its been almost a month now that i have been driving the cruisuzu (?). i have been commuting to work and running errands and regular everyday driving, took two highway trips to check the longer range ride and drive.
i am thourougly impressed and happy with the swap, i can commute all week on barely a 1/4 tank of fuel, my average combined city/highway mileage has been 24MPG, and performance is waaay better than the 2F. its not a rocket ship or dragster by any means, but i almost never need to give it more than 1/2 throttle to easily keep up with traffic, the 2F was a strong runner but i didnt even bother to try. on a 7% grade climb on the highway i drop into 4th gear and maintain 54mph no problems, this used to be a 3rd gear climb at no better than 40mph tops. just to check speed i ran it up a bit over 80mph, it was fine, no power issues pushing the pig, but i dont like going that fast on 37" tires so i backed off, i cruise around 65-70 just like before but now it gets there much quicker and uses half the fuel.

i notice a vibration at highway speeds that changes with engine speed, may not be anything but i want to investigate it further, its a droning kind of vibration rather than a constant type so it might just be the engine itself ? anyway i'll be looking into it.

so far i am running about 30% soy bio, no noticeable drop in mileage or performance but you can smell the difference, kinda like a radio control airplane.

[Dougal]

Good to hear you're happy with it.

What's your gearing? How many rpm at 100km/h?

[RHINO]

4:10,, i dont yet have a tacho installed but i guess is about 17-1800 rpm.

[astr]

Originally Posted by RHINO

hard to believe but its been almost a month now that i have been driving the cruisuzu (?). i have been commuting to work and running errands and regular everyday driving, took two highway trips to check the longer range ride and drive.
i am thourougly impressed and happy with the swap, i can commute all week on barely a 1/4 tank of fuel, my average combined city/highway mileage has been 24MPG, and performance is waaay better than the 2F. its not a rocket ship or dragster by any means, but i almost never need to give it more than 1/2 throttle to easily keep up with traffic, the 2F was a strong runner but i didnt even bother to try. on a 7% grade climb on the highway i drop into 4th gear and maintain 54mph no problems, this used to be a 3rd gear climb at no better than 40mph tops. just to check speed i ran it up a bit over 80mph, it was fine, no power issues pushing the pig, but i dont like going that fast on 37" tires so i backed off, i cruise around 65-70 just like before but now it gets there much quicker and uses half the fuel.

i notice a vibration at highway speeds that changes with engine speed, may not be anything but i want to investigate it further, its a droning kind of vibration rather than a constant type so it might just be the engine itself ? anyway i'll be looking into it.

so far i am running about 30% soy bio, no noticeable drop in mileage or performance but you can smell the difference, kinda like a radio control airplane.

That's great to hear! Your success will provide inspiration to the rest of us. As you get more miles on it, please keep posting your impressions of the swap.

[euclid]

Anybody want a dead A440F for measurement/mockup? Drop me a PM.

[svo_jon]

Anyone contacted novak?

[Dieseltim]

Yes, I did contact Novak, and they told me that they were not interested in making any adapters for "Diesels" If you want to put in a gas engine then they would be happy to talk to you. Go figure! I have yet to find anyone that would be willing to try this one, so I am still looking, I don't have the CNC machines that I would need to be able to make this a production operation. Making one at a time is just cost prohibitive.

Dieseltim

[bram]

thats exactly why i got started on this. I have access to the machines and i can get the material at cost. designing the parts is the difficult part.

[RHINO]

i would think designing would be pretty easy, but i'm a manual machinist and dont know squat about CNC.

[Tanner]

Try this link for an online machine shop that can quot the manufacture of custom parts -

http://www.emachineshop.com/

Tanner

[svo_jon]

Rhino-

Remind me again what trans/tranfer combo you are running and what you used to bolt them together?
Thanks

By the way this is a Badass thread!!! I have high hopes that I will be swaping in a 4bd into both my cruisers as soon as Bram comes up with an addapter arangement, keep up the good work!!

Jonathan

[RHINO]

sure, i'm running isuzu swappers adapter, chevota bellhousing, v-6 5 spd, marlin 4.7 and 4 speed cruiser case. its long but my shafts are the same F/R and thats what i was shooting for.

BTW for anyone wondering the isuzu power steering pump works like a champ, it must have a bit more pressure than the saginaw i was running cause it seems to turn the 37" tires better and i thought it was good before.

[euclid]