[bram]

true. but how many people really want to use autos anyway? I mean, if thats your bag then great but people seem to want manuals more often than not.

[euclid]

Originally Posted by bram

true. but how many people really want to use autos anyway? I mean, if thats your bag then great but people seem to want manuals more often than not.

It really boils down to a matter of preference.

[RHINO]

the 4BD is about the same height as the 2F, but you dont have that big air cleaner on top. dropping in a cruiser with no lift will have to be smart, but is totally doable. one of the problems is the starter, it sticks out pretty far and i had to move the engine to the passenger side off center, which is opposite the 2F favoring the driver side, so things like differential, tranny tunnel and other mods will need to be considered when keeping the rig stock height. i have the bottom of the 4BD engine at the same height as the 2F and have at least 4" clearance to the hood. i could have lifted it but then i would have gotten into the tranny hump. when positioning the engine i was trying to keep the lowest center of gravity and the flattest posible belly, it turned out good.

[Dougal]

4BD1T is approx 740mm from bottom of sump to top of rocker cover.
Air pipes add to this but they can be moved.

Mine measures 730mm, but I've removed the thick rubber gasket between sump and block to get more axle/sump clearance.

[bram]

so its only ~2in shorter than a 4bt?

[88tlc]

Originally Posted by euclid

I realize I may be in the minority, but I really like the A440F.

Mine is an Aussie rebuild with custom valve body, and that makes a big difference but I liked it before. They fail early because the radiator cooler doesn't do a good enough job keeping it cool. An extra cooler and it's bombproof long term, IMHO.

On shift points, the Aussie valve body can be customized pretty easily to affect shift points.

All that being said, if I didn't have a rebuilt A440 already I'd probably agree with you.

I also like the a440f auto transmission, mainly because its already in my fj62. Are there better transmissions? I am sure there is, but all with a cost, complexity of ripping what is in there out, and adding parts from all over the place.

my A440F has 260,000 miles on it. Still Original. That is pretty hard to say about any transmission, but especially an automatic.

The austrailian rebuilds sound as good as the 700r4 mods, torque converter and valve body made to handle the torque. The can also be done in the states, there just aren't as many to be done in the US.

It has a lock up for over drive, so good power transmission when at cruise, definitely not 50% losses. Good overdrive ratio .71:1.

And I don't need to mess around with ripping my truck completely apart, put a different transmission, adapter plates, and transfer case adapter, and clutch masters, new pedals, and lord knows what else. cause all that stuff means another $3000, and a year or two.

I think it also becomes a preference of how you want to drive the TLC when your done. For me, its mostly on roads, road trips, and adventures, in the mountains to ski areas, maybe some dualtrack roads, but rarely would I see a need to be on some hair ball trail or slickrock.

So the main reason for the diesel converion for me is economy (in the conversion, and in the fuel efficiency), not necessarily infinite performance.

To get 25 to 30 mpg, and have more power than I have now to get up the mountain passes faster than 50, and a nice little rumble of the diesel, I will be stoked.

[68raisin]

I love manual transmissions but automatics are great too. It is about preference.

The isuzu diesel swap is so close for the average enthusiast that I'm totally stoked. I would swap in a 5sp but my 80 has the auto already and my wife would use it most so auto is where I'm headed.

With the surfacing of possible compatibility of the a440 and a450 there are lots of doors opening for the 80 series crowd. As far as shift points, durability, etc. go, I would use the a450 to solve all of the driveability issues. I would venture to guess that the similarities in the a440 and a450 are in our favor knowing that they do have the same bolt patterns. The internals would be different of course because of the application but that may also prove to be a plus.

I hope for and envision my 4HE w/a450, swapping output shafts, bolting on my t-case then fabing up the motor mounts.

There would be other stuff to do but this does seem like it would be a popular enough swap given that there are no adaptors. The only hurdle I see is tearing down the transmission, but if you're swapping motors that should'nt be to bad.

If someone figured out the optimum motormount position and offered mounts, possibly a tranny exchange etc... there could be a kit for this combo.

I think thats enough rambling........

[theSherpa]

keep in mind that what keeps automatics alive is line pressure...shifts gears, engages clutches, who knows what else. line pressure is rpm dependent, and a gas auto turning at diesel rpm doesn't make the same line pressure, which is a big reason gas autos don't live behind diesels in swaps. automakers could run more line pressure than they do stock for reliability, but that makes trannies shift harder,which the public has been trained to avoid. I think the A440's issues in FJ62 are likely the result of lower than ideal line pressure from the factory. that has to be compensated for if you put a high power at low rpm motor like a 4HE1 ahead of an A440, such as with the Aussie valve body...make sure they know you're putting a grunt motor in when you talk to them. Orange45 could talk much more intelligently than I about this, as he lived and breathed autos for years, but there are a lot of slippery A440's out there that would probably get murdered by putting a 4HE1 ahead of them with no other mods...not to mention the high-stall torque converter. imagine driving a diesel, and only engaging the clutch from a standstill at 2200 rpm...that's what a high-stall TC is like. I drove an '89 Dodge Cummins with the 727 (I think) three-speed and basically a gas motor TC, and it was like giving all the low-end torque of that motor away...

Now, I'm no expert, so flame away, but IMHO to put a 4HE1 in front of a high-miles A440 will result in tears down the road.

Don't let the fact that I hate slushboxes affect your reading of this in any way I like the idea of a 4HK1 ahead of an NV5600 or other 6-speed, but that's dreaming

I must say that when you hear a late-model NPR with an auto run down the road, you can tell the auto is set up right...and it's one slushbox I could see having.

Steve

[euclid]

I agree with you about a high mileage A440 taking a dump pretty quick behind the diesel.

This is all internet rumor, but the A440 was evidently used in a small people mover bus produced by Toyota for Japan. Rumor is that it was used for years with great success. They had some on the shelf, and decided to give the US an auto 60: the 62. The tranny worked great in high torque, low RPM situations like the bus. The trouble with so many of them dying is that the heat of 65 MPH/2700 rpm for thousands of miles kills them.

On a side note, 7 years ago when I first got my 62 you the A440 didn't have a bad rep. The trucks are all hitting 225K and the transmissions are dying left and right. 225K under a 5K lb rig is respectable performance IMO.

I think its a given that if the a440 is used it needs to be at least a fresh rebuild, and even better if the valve body is tuned with the engine in mind, and even better if the torque converter is set up to take the higher pressures created by the extra torque.

Keep in mind that I love my slushbox, especially off road. JMHO

BTW I'm web-buddies with Rodney at wholesale automatics in OZ. I sent him a link to this thread and asked for his wisdom on the swap, if he's seen it in OZ, how the A440 could be set up ect. I'll forward any info I get.

[theSherpa]

very cool, Euclid...I knew my experience or lack of it with A440's wouldn't be the whole picture. I think Rodney's valve body would be important...dunno if he does/can raise line pressure. given a fresh tranny, I think the biggest hurdle would be the torque converter...they behave how they're built/designed, never heard of anyone modifying one, just replacing them with another that has differently sized/whatever innards.

thanks for reminding me/us that it's not a junk tranny at all!!

Steve
nothing works like a slushbox in the rocks, for sure...I just don't like trannies that shift when they want, not when I want. I'd want a full-manual shift valve body if I ever had one.

[euclid]

Add to your wish list 3rd and 4th lockup, and the option of a push button lockup torque converter - that's what I have in mine.

The valve body mod does increase line pressures a tiny bit with the valve body, but not much. See here

[PurpleFJ62]

what ever happaned to 4bd1t and an h55f? Has there been any progress on a isuzu to 2f/3f pattern adapter?
I want to stuff a isuzu turbo diesel with a h55f into my 62.

[rtarh2o]

Ok, let me see if I have this straight. We are now talking about the 4HE1 engine mounting to the A440 transmission. You will have to change out the output shaft to make the A440 work. What about keeping the 4HE1/A450 combination and making the A450 mount to the L/C transfer case since there seems to be concern about the A440? (I am thinking FZJ80, just selfish) Or maybe this is what you are talking about?
I have a couple questions I have about the 4HE1, first it seems like it is larger displacement. This is both good and maybe bad, how is the fuel economy going to be with this engine. I am wanting to get mid 20's to make it worth the time and money, will this engine deliver that? Also, what about ease of installation, are there more electronics on this engine making it more of a wiring nightmare?
Just more for me to think about!
Rusty
97 FZJ80

[PurpleFJ62]

good point, I assume this 4HE1 is a newer 4 cyl diesel. Meaning its got lots of wires on it. Start a new thread for this engine. what is wrong with the mechanical 4bd engines?
Being that the 4HE1 has a different bolt pattern, its probally a completly different block. And since the displacment is larger, its probally more heavy. IMHO the 700 or so pounds of a 4bd on the front end of my cruiser is enough. I think adding more weight will only have neagitive consquences.

[bram]

The answer to all those questions is a few pages back in this thread.

The 4bdx to H42/H55F adapter is in the works but it is not going to happen over night.

[euclid]

Originally Posted by bram

The answer to all those questions is a few pages back in this thread.

The 4bdx to H42/H55F adapter is in the works but it is not going to happen over night.

Well said. Depending on how the adapter works it's possible that the same adapter would do an h42/h55 AND a A440F since the transmission end is the same. It's just a matter of making the spacing right for the torque converter.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by euclid

This is all internet rumor, but the A440 was evidently used in a small people mover bus produced by Toyota for Japan. Rumor is that it was used for years with great success. They had some on the shelf, and decided to give the US an auto 60: the 62. The tranny worked great in high torque, low RPM situations like the bus. The trouble with so many of them dying is that the heat of 65 MPH/2700 rpm for thousands of miles kills them.

Does that auto not have a lockup?

Because with a lockup, the TC is no longer creating heat and the story falls apart.

[euclid]

Originally Posted by Dougal

Does that auto not have a lockup?

Because with a lockup, the TC is no longer creating heat and the story falls apart.

Locks up at 54MPG in stock form.

As I understand it, the torque converter doesn't really create heat, it increases the efficiency of the use of the engine's power by getting rid of clutch slippage. This reduces the heat that the transmission creates, but the transmission still creates a bunch of heat. More at high speed than low speed. Mine made it up close to 250* on my moab trip a couple of times when I was driving over mountain passes, and that's with a big ass aftermarket transmission cooler on it. No telling what kind of temps I would have seen without the cooler.

Sorry for the auto transmission hijack. My fault.

Back to the 4BD!

[theSherpa]

OK, this is the last of my 4HE1-oriented hijack, since this IS the 4BD1/2 thread

Yeah, Rodney's got them figured out, eh? And reading that page gives you confidence an A440 could be built to hold up just fine...now you're back to the front side, perhaps swapping the input shaft, need a low stall torque converter (swap in the A450 TC?), etc. It would be interesting to hear his perspective on A440/A450...maybe he's rebuilt A450's, and knows whether A440/A450 input/output shafts will swap?

OK, hijack over, back to your regularly scheduled 4BD1/2 thread, ideally with a properly stupid transmission!

Steve

Originally Posted by euclid

Add to your wish list 3rd and 4th lockup, and the option of a push button lockup torque converter - that's what I have in mine.

The valve body mod does increase line pressures a tiny bit with the valve body, but not much. See here

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by euclid

Locks up at 54MPG in stock form.

As I understand it, the torque converter doesn't really create heat, it increases the efficiency of the use of the engine's power by getting rid of clutch slippage. This reduces the heat that the transmission creates, but the transmission still creates a bunch of heat. More at high speed than low speed. Mine made it up close to 250* on my moab trip a couple of times when I was driving over mountain passes, and that's with a big ass aftermarket transmission cooler on it. No telling what kind of temps I would have seen without the cooler.

Sorry for the auto transmission hijack. My fault.

Back to the 4BD!

The torque converter is basically a hydraulic clutch, they always slip and they create more heat the more they slip.
A lockup clutch in them locks the input and output halves together to prevent slip, this stops the torque converter from making heat (it's no longer slipping).

The gears and clutch packs in an auto box are all behind them. They should only slip a little when changing gear and be locked up the rest of the time.

My 4wd truck is manual (Isuzu 4BD1 and Isuzu 5sp) but my daily driver car is auto. I want to wire up a trip switch to the torque converter lockup, so I can make it lockup climbing hills in 2nd and 3rd gear. I don't know how hot it gets, but it's hot enough to smell from outside the car.

An Isuzu NPR auto transmission was up on EBAY last week, bolts up to a 4BD1 apparently.

[euclid]

I've been chating with Rodney about the swap. He's doing some research. Here's some info he asked me to pass on:

Hi Greg it's Rodney here from Wholesale Automatics in Australia. If you could please pass this message on and spell check before sending as I did it in a bit of a hurry this morning but didn't want to let you down.

I will do my best to explain. Yes the Heavy Duty Extreme Re-calibrated Valve Body with 3rd & 4th Gear Lock-Up will do the job nicely. It not only has much higher line and secondary pressures but also address many other concerns with such a conversion. We also have Brand New Heavy Duty Hi Output Billet A440F Torque Converters that we use for many different engine conversions and in fact also fit many into standard 2H, 12HT and 3FE powered Land Cruisers. The factory fitted torque converter is hopeless to say the lest behind any engine with power and barley manages behind the above engine.

While I have done this these A440F transmissions with the above option for this engine before I have never fitted the engine up personally so I don't know how they went about making the adapter other than to say that I'm sure they were home built.

Now, I have a question for you. What is a A450???? If it is the transmission out of the Toyota Coaster then it is infact an A440H/L. This is exactly the same as the A440F transmission apart from the output shaft, rear housing and minor adjustments to the valve body. What make the A440H/L from the Toyota Coaster work is the fact that the diff ratio is over 5 - 1 taking most of the load from the transmission. Other than this they are the same. Changing the output shaft on the A440H/L will just make it into a A440F.

If someone makes an adapter plate I would be able to make one of our torque converters so it bolts straight up. I would need the factory Isuzu torque converter so have all the measurements and then I would have to work with someone to get the final measurements for end float.

You will need to swap the 3FE factory fitted governor to a diesel unit unless the transmission was already behind a diesel engine.

I would also recommend an Extra Large Oil Cooler and Complete Temp Gauge Kit. You would only need the cooler if your Land Cruiser didn't come factory fitted with one. Please see the following web links for much of the above.

http://www.automatictransmission.com...p?NewsId=11360
http://www.automatictransmission.com...p?NewsId=10282
http://www.automatictransmission.com...p?NewsId=12319
http://www.automatictransmission.com...p?NewsId=12031

With all the messages going back and forth I'm not sure that I have covered enough but if anybody has any questions please E-mail me directly and I will do me best to help.

Hope this helps.
Kind Regards
Rodney Hudson-Davies
Factory 1/58 Barry St
Bayswater
Victoria, Australia 3153
transmissions@optusnet.com.au
www.automatictransmission.com.au
Phone: 011-613-97628004 Direct phone number from the United States
Fax: 011-613-97628004Direct


I've responded with some specific questions, like asking him to put me in contact with whoever did the swap. Also answered his question about the A450.

[RHINO]

so, i had a tight fit to get the oil sender on where the stock oil sender goes on the BD1,,, so i located sender on other side above starter in the oil galley plug next to that cap for who know what? i get oil pressure when revved up but goes to zero at idle, anyone know about this? seems kinda wierd, i am using a brand new toyota sender to match my toyota guage, so the electrics and sender and guage should be fine.


BTW i been doing a half ass build thread on the FJ55 section,, its all done and i'm driving it now, such a big smile on my face its stupid.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/fj55-iron-pig-preservation-society/157088-enough-talk.html

[PurpleFJ62]

rhino- looks very nice. After you drive it for awhile you have to report back to us with what kind of results you are getting. In terms of performace, MPG, on road, off road ,etc. I am very intrested to learn more about what you did.

[astr]

Originally Posted by RHINO

so, i had a tight fit to get the oil sender on where the stock oil sender goes on the BD1,,, so i located sender on other side above starter in the oil galley plug next to that cap for who know what? i get oil pressure when revved up but goes to zero at idle, anyone know about this? seems kinda wierd, i am using a brand new toyota sender to match my toyota guage, so the electrics and sender and guage should be fine.


BTW i been doing a half ass build thread on the FJ55 section,, its all done and i'm driving it now, such a big smile on my face its stupid.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=157088

Congratulations on getting it on the road! I'm looking forward to hearing your opinion on the conversion.

Regarding no oil pressure at idle: I would worry about that. The manual specifies 14 psi at idle (650 rpm), I suspect that you may not have taped your sender into the main oil gallery. Is there a way to temporarily connect a mechanical guage to the original sender location to verify that you do have good pressure?

I've included the lubrication system schematic. Unfortunately, it doesn't show where the galleries are located on the engine block.

[RHINO]

i'm sure it just not a good location for my sender, i havent put on a mech guage to check pressure but it squirts oil at idle, so its being pumped, i'm sure everything is fine. i'll just need to get my sender over to the other side in the original sender location, no biggie.
thanks astr

[bram]

I drove up the cruiserparts.net yard in sullivan NH today. I told James there what I was trying to do and he gave me all the parts I needed to measure for free. H42, 3F bellhousing, flywheel, clutch disk, pressure plate, and TO bearing. I have read both good and bad on here about those guys but they done right by me.

I also found a person who is gonna model them for me for a nominal fee. Then we will combine it with that model dougal posted a week ago and we will be designing adapters! Since he already modeled the 4bd1 I dont even need the motor to design the adapter.

I will need one to prove it works though....

[Dougal]

You'll need to get that FTP server up and running.

My solid model is approaching 50mb, I haven't yet added flywheel, clutch, front timing cover or any of the other little bits and pieces.

[bram]

its in the works. I bought fjswaps.com today. I will finish setting up the server this weekend.

Everyone: I am going to set up a FTP server that we can use to exchange large files. I'll let yall know how to access it when its up and running. I have accumulated some good info that you are all welcome to, and I'd appreciate it if you would upload anything that you think is useful.

[dieselcruiserhead]

I would also gladly host files on the 4BTswaps.com site too if needed...

Euclid, I appreciate the email from your friend in Oz.. Good info there... Again my complaint with the A440F is not the longevity (I think they'll last fine) but the power that they appear to absorb. i have drive a standard converted FJ62 and it did great (again giving a bad rap to the 3FE) and the auto HJ60s are also legendary slugs, that have had A440Fs in the '85-87 years they were available in Canada. Of course you can't believe everything you read on the 'net for particularly the last few bug years of the diesel land cruiser email list, it was considered common knowledge that the A440F could absorb up to 50% of the torque out of the HJ60s...

I think it would work but personally I would still run the adapters and use a more updated engine. I don't think it would change too much cost wise unless your stock transmission is in good shape. But again who knows how long your transmission will last with a different engine and it would be a bummer to set it up this way just to have it go out a few months or even a year or two later...

[1103.9TD]

Here's mine, in a Landy 110, I'd be most interested in a super-strong selectable auto...........

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