24v advantages

[Gold Boy]

24v advatages over 12v - any?

[crushers]

not in my books
the starters and alternators last about the same amount of time.
the started and alternators cost 1/2 to twice as much for 24V vs 12V
harder to find parts for the 24V systems
both are prone to gremlins...

but then this is just my experience...

cheers

[UpsideDown]

BIG advantages when winching with 24V. The winch will pull longer, harder, faster... and last longer due to running much cooler under load.

A 24V 8274 side by side with a 12V 8274 demonstrates quite an impressive difference in overall speed and power for the 24Vunit - heat generated is also much less with 24V.

~John

edit: I have not done a side by side with the "new" 8274-50 motors.

[crushers]

Originally Posted by UpsideDown

BIG advantages when winching with 24V. The winch will pull longer, harder, faster... and last longer due to running much cooler under load.

A 24V 8274 side by side with a 12V 8274 demonstrates quite an impressive difference in overall speed and power for the 24Vunit - heat generated is also much less with 24V.

~John

LOL!!
then after you have finished that test run a 12V 8274 running on 24V power feed next to a 24V 8274 running on 24V feed and get out of the way... (3 different trucks, numerous long pulls and short hard pulls and it is still running strong)

[UpsideDown]

I've been debating running my XD9000 in 24V format... but I worry that the bushings will scream!

I guess there's only one way to find out: lubricate it all really well and then hook it up.

How are the 12V motors holding up? Big windings should be able to take it. I guess all I'd need to do is put in some 24V solenoids.

[Gold Boy]

Originally Posted by crushers

LOL!!
then after you have finished that test run a 12V 8274 running on 24V power feed next to a 24V 8274 running on 24V feed and get out of the way... (3 different trucks, numerous long pulls and short hard pulls and it is still running strong)

good news for me..... i will be "hopefully" getting a 12v 8274, when i buy 84 chev pickup in the new year.

[george_tlc]

Originally Posted by Gold Boy

24v advatages over 12v - any?

I just (last month) converted my 26 year old 4wd from 24V to 12V. After MANY years of living with a 24V system I can honestly say that very little advantages exist over a 12V system. Most are disadvantages:

BIG one is the never ending issue of keeping the two 12V batteries 'balanced'. This becomes a bigger deal when camping with a bunch of 12V 'stuff'. Yes, you can run a DC-DC converter, but that's a bandaid.

Next BIG one is you have 2 heavy batteries that must BOTH be in good condition to start the vehicle. No room for a 2nd pair of 'auxiliary' batteries.

Expensive and harder to find 'spares' - that includes everything from the washer bottle 'pump' to alternators and starters.

After converting my 4wd to 12V I was pleased as punch with the thought of going to the local parts store and being able to buy a bulb as easily as the next guy and for the same price. Now I have 2 heavy batteries but only one has to be in good condition and the other can be put to the important job of keeping the beer cold

Going to a 12V winch was the only thing I gave up and that's something I readily chose to do.

This is what was involved in the conversion (warning non-tlc content ) www.george4wd.taskled.com/mq2412.html

24V - just say no...

george.

[dieseldog]

If you think you've got it tough owning/using/maintaining a 24volt system up there in the GWN, try it down here in Texas. As the owner of two such cruisers, I am constantly on the lookout for spares and bulbs, etc. for my two BJ's. But I wouldn't trade or convert them for the world. They are what they are and they both run strong. No problems, no complaints.

The fact of the matter is, 24volt systems are electrically superior overall. For systems involving a lot of wiring, it is useful and less expensive as you can use a smaller gauge wire throughout. I don't worry about resale value on the cruisers I buy--once I get a diesel cruiser, I NEVER SELL IT. NEVER.

[Greg_B]

Originally Posted by dieseldog

The fact of the matter is, 24volt systems are electrically superior overall.

Xackerly...

gb

[crushers]

Originally Posted by dieseldog

The fact of the matter is, 24volt systems are electrically superior overall. .

explain this to me please,
if the problem areas are the same parts i.e. keeping 2 batteries charged the same, having to use a convertor to run accessories, alternator and starter issues, glow plug issues (basicly the same wiring harness through out) odd ball lighting parts....
how is the 24V system superior? Greg, you can chime in here as well...

if there is issues then it isn't superior, is it?

[crushers]

Originally Posted by UpsideDown

I've been debating running my XD9000 in 24V format... but I worry that the bushings will scream!

I guess there's only one way to find out: lubricate it all really well and then hook it up.

How are the 12V motors holding up? Big windings should be able to take it. I guess all I'd need to do is put in some 24V solenoids.

(i wouldn't put a low profile winch anywhere near my units, piss poor design. )the only real winch there ever was is the old 8274...

i wouldn't try the 12V XD9000 on 24V, of course it is yours so post up how it goes, but i wouldn't.

cheers

[dieseldog]

Originally Posted by crushers

explain this to me please,
if the problem areas are the same parts i.e. keeping 2 batteries charged the same, having to use a convertor to run accessories, alternator and starter issues, glow plug issues (basicly the same wiring harness through out) odd ball lighting parts....
how is the 24V system superior? Greg, you can chime in here as well...

if there is issues then it isn't superior, is it?

My experience regarding longevity of components in a 24volt system is different than some others, apparently. If you talk to electrical engineers, they will bear out what I'm saying and it is one of the very reasons why there are moves afoot to potentially move the automotive industry away from 12volt systems to a higher voltage system--possibly even 36volt systems. It's one of the reasons that power is transmitted in high voltage low amperage over long distances--there are less energy losses. I'm fully-aware that some folks don't prefer the 24volt systems. I'm fully-aware that some folks don't prefer diesel engines. But the fact remains that there is good reason why the NATO standard is 24volts for military equipment. I'm just sayin . . .

[crushers]

please stick to the facts, not what some engineer says. life is full of ideas on paper not working up to expectations in the field. (some engineer stamped the approval for the 2LTE head design and we know what a misake that was)

in theory you are right, 24V "should be" better but the facts show, in my experience with working with both these systems, that the same components fail with the same regularity whether 24V or 12V.

if this is the case then where is the superiority of one over the other, except of course you can get a 12V starter rebuilt for about 2/3rds the price of the same 24V version.

(please don't take this the wrong way, i am not insulting your intelligence, i just do not know how to word this properly...heading back to bed)

[motorcoach123]

Originally Posted by dieseldog

My experience regarding longevity of components in a 24volt system is different than some others, apparently. If you talk to electrical engineers, they will bear out what I'm saying and it is one of the very reasons why there are moves afoot to potentially move the automotive industry away from 12volt systems to a higher voltage system--possibly even 36volt systems. It's one of the reasons that power is transmitted in high voltage low amperage over long distances--there are less energy losses. I'm fully-aware that some folks don't prefer the 24volt systems. I'm fully-aware that some folks don't prefer diesel engines. But the fact remains that there is good reason why the NATO standard is 24volts for military equipment. I'm just sayin . . .

I agree. There is good reason that a high percentage of heavy duty equipment/vehicles are 24V. Battery balance is only properly managed by a balancer sized for that job. Any other method is usually a poor substitute for a balancer of the proper rating. Battery maintence is something that is necessary on any vehicle that is gonna be in the bush or otherwise away from help. Alternator/starter parts are usually readily available from any rebuilder that deals with heavy vehicle components, and how often do you need to rebuild these components? Starting in subzero weather is difficult for many reasons, but prolly better handled by a well-maintained 24V system. Bulbs are also readily available, at least in North American cities, possibly just gotta know where to go.
My .02 cents.

[dieseldog]

Originally Posted by crushers

please stick to the facts, not what some engineer says. life is full of ideas on paper not working up to expectations in the field. (some engineer stamped the approval for the 2LTE head design and we know what a misake that was)

in theory you are right, 24V "should be" better but the facts show, in my experience with working with both these systems, that the same components fail with the same regularity whether 24V or 12V.

if this is the case then where is the superiority of one over the other, except of course you can get a 12V starter rebuilt for about 2/3rds the price of the same 24V version.

(please don't take this the wrong way, i am not insulting your intelligence, i just do not know how to word this properly...heading back to bed)

I get it. You don't prefer 24volts. Truly, I get it.

[Gold Boy]

why does the military like 24v, wasn't our 70's made 24v for NATO.
military hummers are 24v...etc

don't say it's a M-secret..

[denis]

Originally Posted by crushers

(some engineer stamped the approval for the 2LTE head design and we know what a misake that was)

The head is not the problem. The problem is a combination of the relatively poor cooling system and increased thermal stress from the turbo, and EGR and vulnerability to below-perfect maintenance. The 2LTE head design is not the 2LTE head design, it is the 2L2, 2LT2, 2LTE head design.

[crushers]

Originally Posted by denis

The head is not the problem. The problem is a combination of the relatively poor cooling system and increased thermal stress from the turbo, and EGR and vulnerability to below-perfect maintenance. The 2LTE head design is not the 2LTE head design, it is the 2L2, 2LT2, 2LTE head design.

oh boy...
the 2L, 2LT is a different head than the 2LTE.
the 2L/2LT had head cracking AND valve guide/seat problems.
the 2LTE/3L heads have head cracking problems.
both were approved by an engineer somewhere down the line.

[crushers]

Originally Posted by dieseldog

I get it. You don't prefer 24volts. Truly, I get it.

i drive what ever happens to be under the hood, if it is 12V i use it, if it is 24V i use it. i do not prefer one over the other, i don't really care. i know the parts are going to fail 24v or 12v. i just deal with it when it happens.

the question was:
advantages of 24V / 12V

in real life there is none.

i don't care, i don't prefer.

[crushers]

Originally Posted by motorcoach123

I agree. There is good reason that a high percentage of heavy duty equipment/vehicles are 24V. Battery balance is only properly managed by a balancer sized for that job. Any other method is usually a poor substitute for a balancer of the proper rating. Battery maintence is something that is necessary on any vehicle that is gonna be in the bush or otherwise away from help. Alternator/starter parts are usually readily available from any rebuilder that deals with heavy vehicle components, and how often do you need to rebuild these components? Starting in subzero weather is difficult for many reasons, but prolly better handled by a well-maintained 24V system. Bulbs are also readily available, at least in North American cities, possibly just gotta know where to go.
My .02 cents.

hummm, it will be interesting to see if what you say is true.

it is amazing the number of 24V units don't start vs the number of 12V that do. it is usually the batteries that are at fault. ANY drain off the #1 battery on a 24V system is magnified by cold. sad to say this is when the 24V system should be shinning away. (no matter how you cut it, the 24V system fails at the batteries in our cruisers)
now of course this is just Cruiser related first hand knowledge...
the other units that run 24V systems i know very little about.

[denis]

Originally Posted by crushers

oh boy...
the 2L, 2LT is a different head than the 2LTE.
the 2L/2LT had head cracking AND valve guide/seat problems.
the 2LTE/3L heads have head cracking problems.
both were approved by an engineer somewhere down the line.

The head itself is just a component of the engine. The head won't fail if you leave it with no engine attached to.

[Diescipel]

I happen to like the center tap sysem on the headlights

Seriously, yes sourcing stuff is a pain in the ass, but I'm a dork and I enjoy the simple pleasure of my 3B jumping to life instantly when I hit the starter. By far the best starting vehicle I have ever seen. Not bad for a 23 year old engine.

Am I wrong that 12v starting just can match this? I forget the equation, but the 24v stuff can essentially pull more power more efficiently, hence the NATO spec. etc.

B

[Gold Boy]

Originally Posted by Diescipel

but I'm a dork

so what parts can't you sorce?