Everything I Ever Learned About Importing

[lowenbrau]

I made the final payment on that Cruiser that was siezed and shredded by the Canada Revenue Agency this week. Ironically, if i'd imported it now it just might be legal.

I can't believe I paid $25K for a LJ73. That's what you get for being the first kid on the block with an illegal import I guess.

RIP Pepe le Peu

[crushers]

Bruce,
i admire that you carried on with the payments even after the truck was seized. it say s alot about your character...
congrates on finally making that last payment.
(you and i both know, today seemed like an eternety away back in 99)
cheers

[Red Herring]

Just catching up with this post.... and I just wanted to say that it broke my freakin heart to read your tail Bruce... sure like the idea of throwin that 2nd owner a blanket party ... (throw a blanket over his head so he cannot see who is kickin the crap outta him)!!

Sincere condolences man

[zander]

I thought that I should now post my story of importing diesel Land Cruisers from Canada into California as I have benefited so much from what you all (especially Alex) have posted here. I am now importing my third Cruiser (and hopefully this will be the one I stick with and build up for my honeymoon bio diesel expedition). I should state a disclaimer that I am in no way claiming expertise, nor a guarantee that anything will go for you like it did for me. If you read all this you will see there is a lot of variation from vehicle to vehicle in the process, and I am not sure why. I have heard horror stories of this process going awry and people having their vehicles impounded and destroyed at their own cost, so make sure you don’t cut any corners. Also note that I only have experience in California, other state DMVs may be different. In this post is a little story about each import. At the end I list all the costs, importers and basic procedure...

The BJ70:
I bought an '85 BJ70 in Sept 04 off eBay (from David Zondag - eBay handle nushuuz2000 - which I would not recommend - read on). David delivered the vehicle to me in San Francisco as he was buying a Mercedes down here, this all sounded great and he assured me that this was totally fine and he would have the infamous "Toyota Letter ... no problem." He arrived without the letter, but he assured me he would send it down as soon as he got it and gave me a money back "guarantee" that I could register the vehicle. Also of note when we did the transaction he took half of the title (which it says is for the seller so I thought it was okay). I took it all down to my local DMV and amazingly walked out of there with plates and reg stickers good for a year. They said however that my title and final reg would not come for up to 90 days while DMV central processed it.

Almost 90 days to the day I received a letter from the DMV in Sacramento HQ that I needed to supply the Toyota letter of compliance or full Registered Importer docs and Customs Import Summary. And by the way that I was missing half of the title. I contacted the seller who was very quick to say that it was not a problem, but that basically I was on my own as I now owned the vehicle and that I should get the letter from Toyota. I had already tried and seen all the other efforts to get this and realized my only hope was an importer. However finding an importer that would touch it was near impossible. Finally I got the name of Wayne Darby at CARCO (Chevrolake motorcars in Vancouver BC 604-273-2438) from one of the generous members of this forum. He said he could do it in a couple hours no problem... Just bring it by. He could not do it remotely, it had to go through the border legally which David had not done. This meant I had to drive all the way to Vancouver and back to re-import this thing. Crap.

So my fiancé and I decided to make a trip of it between X-mas and New Years and bring snowboards etc. We had 5 days for the trip. Of course the weather shut down every major mountain pass that week and we had to do a 2 day diversion out to 101 and come up the coast killing any chance of leisure time, and make for 5 days of white knuckle driving in the pouring rain on coast roads. (She is still trying to forgive me). Wayne did a great job and even though a lot of his staff was out that week he processed us and had us out the door in a couple hours. We drove back through the border without any trouble at customs at all. (you have to go through the commercial gate East of the Peace Arch gate)

I faxed all this back in to the DMV after returning and after a couple of back and forths where I forgot to include the customs summary and, an special form about the other missing half of the title, they finally said I was approved and would get my title next week. Which did come when they said. This whole process took over 6 months and I am now on a first name basis with the DMV Technical Compliance Division staff

On a side note I also contacted David, the seller, to tell him everything I went through and asked about his "money back guarantee" covering my importation costs. I figured this was fair as I took on about $1000 in the costs of the trip alone. His response was for me to screw myself and that he would not respond to any further emails. I would highly recommend NOT dealing with him as he continues to sell Cruisers on eBay.

The BJ60:
In stark contrast to the BJ70 import, importing this vehicle was as simple as it gets. I bought this one in Quebec and had it delivered to me in CA. I had it imported by Susan at JR Imports in Plattsburgh NY 518-562-3947. They handled all the paperwork and delivery. The delivery took about two weeks longer than expected but this was due to the trucking co. The interesting thing that did happen was a big difference at the DMV. This time about three different ladies came over to help out the person who was helping me. She also didn’t think she needed a copy of all my import docs. I assured her that she did and she made a copy and this time instead of getting plates, she gave my a temporary reg sticker for my back windshield. Incredibly, I received the title, plates and reg in about two weeks!

The HJ60:
For this one I am going through Trevor at Flatwater Enterprises as I knew he successfully imported another IH8Mud forum member's HJ, and wanted someone with specific experience with this model. Interestingly though one of the things Trevor asked me for was the VIN number so he could run it to be sure it was importable. He said he had come across ones that were rejected for some reason due to the VIN. I suppose these were Japanese but I am not sure.

Just got back from the DMV the other day after getting in all the paperwork from Trevor. This time I walked out with plates adn reg stickers for a whole year. (still temp reg though) Its very odd how each time I go to the same DMV I get a different process. Hopefully my title will be here soon and I can close out this saga.

HJ60 Final Update: Well I finally received my regiistration in the mail for my HJ60. I did get a letter back from the CA DMV saying they wanted copies of the EPA and NHTSA docs (or the infamous Toyota letter) which I did not get from the RI in my packet. I contacted Trevor for these and he had them faxed to me on the next working day. I faxed these into the the DMV and called the next day to confirm (this seems to be critical if you want anything done in a timely manner) and they issued the reg the next day, and i got it a few days later. I still dont know what the correct way to deal with the NEW PROCESS called PAPS that went into effect March 05 at the border for driving across. Trevor (my RI) may now know how to do this correctly, you WILL need a PAPS bar code to drive across, so make sure you ask about it and have it sorted. This system also supposedly made it ILLEGAL for the seller (who is Canadian) to drive this down to me, so I had to pick it up. You should make arrangements with customs agents (and get a name and what hours and days they work) BEFORE you get to the gate to get your PAPS code. This almost totally halted my delivery and I had to talk to the Customs supervisor for quite a while to get a one time exemption. Hopefully Trevor will have the correct way to do this sorted out soon.

The process in a nutshell that I have learned:
If you are looking to by a Diesel Cruiser under 25 years old (over 25yrs old you don’t have to do any of this stuff) here are the basic steps:
1. Make sure the Cruiser you are getting is a Canadian spec vehicle, not an import from another country into Canada. The Right Hand Drive, factory turbo motors and or being later than 1987 is generally a good tip off. If you want to import one of these other type of imports I don’t have any experience here and maybe others here can help.
2. Locate a Registered Importer with experience in diesel Land Cruisers at the port of entry you are using. This is actually not too easy as it turns out, the RI list on line is out of date and almost none of them will touch a diesel Cruiser. I made easily over 100 calls (see my list below)
3. The RI should supply you with the following:
- A sticker of compliance they apply to the door frame
- EPA Declaration of Compliance
- DOT Bond to ensure Conformance with Federal Motor Safety Standards (NHTSA)
- A copy of the Registered Importer Policy to Ensure and Guarantee Financial Responsibility to remedy Safety Related Defects and Non Compliance.
- A copy of the Customs Entry Summary (this you will get at he border if you yourself drive it across)
The seller should supply you with:
- The complete title signed over to you with both halves
- A signed and dated bill of sale with their address and name (that matches the title) and the amount of the sale.
4. Once you buy the cruiser it now has to get across the border. See my note on the HJ above about the new PAPS process. Once you have it across and all the paperwork and stickers you go to the DMV. (Note that sometimes the importers had some of this paperwork mailed to them and may take a few days for you to get it all, the importer should be able to advise you, but you will need it all at the California DMV)
5. The DMV visit has two components, an inspection and the office part. First you need an inspection, and at my DMV all you do is drive up outside to the inspection zone (no need to wait in line inside) and they come out and inspect it. Have your paperwork with you, but I think they only need the title for this part. They may not get that it’s a diesel and you may have to point that out. They will write down info off the placard on the firewall etc. and then send you in to the office.
Here you wait in line with your form and then you will likely be met with all kinds of confusion. You just keep telling them that it is a Diesel (so they don’t need a smog cert) and that its from Canada which is why the title looks funny. Make sure they take a copy of all your paperwork (and make sure you keep a copy). They will need the original title though so make a copy of that before going. They should send you out with at least a temporary reg, make sure its for at least 90 days.
6. With your temporary registration you can now get insurance. I ran into a snag here as AAA said they could not insure a car with only temporary reg. I faxed them a letter with all my Import Documentation and they promptly insured the vehicle.
7. Wait... You may get a letter back from the technical compliance division asking for something you forgot, if so fax it in and call to confirm they got it.

Registered Importers. This is a list of people I have now dealt with, and seem to know what they are doing as well as a general idea of the fees I have paid:

Trevor Normand of Flatwater Enterprises in BC - 250-862-0897
Wayne Darby at CARCO - Chevrolake motorcars in Vancouver BC 604-273-2438
Susan at JR Imports in Plattsburgh NY - 518-562-3947

$ 450.00 Registered Import fee (this can vary $100 in either direction)
$ 41.31 Processing fee
$ 31.50 GST on RI fee only
$ 2.25% Duty on selling price charged by US Customs
$ 7.75% CA use tax on purchase price
$ ~$120 registration fee

So the total cost on a $10,000 vehicle (without any delivery or pickup costs which are usually between $500-1000) is about $1,642 all said and done.


I hope this helps you all as much as the help I have gotten here. Please post back with any comments, corrections, or suggestions. Good luck!

[paulj]

I thought that the EPA Declaration of Compliance was the sticking point with importing a diesel under 21 years old. Are you saying they don't do any emissions testing for diesels? Or is it that everything you imported is more than 21 years old?

[HZJ60 Guy]

Originally Posted by lowenbrau

I made the final payment on that Cruiser that was siezed and shredded by the Canada Revenue Agency this week. Ironically, if i'd imported it now it just might be legal.

I can't believe I paid $25K for a LJ73. That's what you get for being the first kid on the block with an illegal import I guess.

RIP Pepe le Peu

MY GOD MAN, you paid on a truck that you never got?

IM SO SORRY!

RATS!


TB

[HZJ60 Guy]

Hey, BJ70 were brought into Canada but never the US. They can be imported. BJ/HZJ75's were brought into Canada but not the US.


Can they be imported into the US?


TB

[zander]

I am not sure I understand the sytax of your question... The only vehicles I have had success importing are those that were built for the North American Market making sure that teh comply with everything. If they were built for an overseas market and imported later to Canada, then you are in a different bucket of worms and all my experience doesnt apply. I believe people have gotten these in, but I dont know how it works.

[zander]

Originally Posted by paulj

I thought that the EPA Declaration of Compliance was the sticking point with importing a diesel under 21 years old. Are you saying they don't do any emissions testing for diesels? Or is it that everything you imported is more than 21 years old?

There is no smog requirement in California on diesels. BUT the engine has to have been EPA approved the year it was manufactured and that is what the RI docs prove.

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by zander

Also of note when we did the transaction he took half of the title (which it says is for the seller so I thought it was okay).

I faxed all this back in to the DMV after returning and after a couple of back and forths where I forgot to include the customs summary and, an special form about the other missing half of the title, they finally said I was approved and would get my title next week.

- The complete title signed over to you with both halves

Just a little background on the way B.C. titles and insures vehicles. We have a common insurer and registration office. Both are a single government department. Every B.C. registered vehicle gets one, and only one, copy of the insurance and title. We get a new one each time we renew the insurance. This is printed on a single sheet of paper which is perforated. One half is the title and one half is the insurance documents.
The reason the seller took the other half was to get a refund on the unused insurance on the vehicle which he sold to you.
I know it's confusing and different from everyone else but that's how B.C. does it! It gets me lots of questions at the borders here in Central America because they expect to see a U.S. style title form.

p.s. I'm NOT the one who sold the truck to "Zander" nor do I know who he is. Just a clarification on how things are in B.C.

p.p.s. Does anyone know the routine for importing a non-USA/Canada vehicle that is more than 25 years old (like the '67 FJ45LV that I will be restoring)?

[theSherpa]

I was not aware the B or H engines were ever EPA approved. What do the RI docs prove? I'm confused

Steve

Originally Posted by zander

There is no smog requirement in California on diesels. BUT the engine has to have been EPA approved the year it was manufactured and that is what the RI docs prove.

[sanjuancruiser]

Originally Posted by cruiser_guy

p.p.s. Does anyone know the routine for importing a non-USA/Canada vehicle that is more than 25 years old (like the '67 FJ45LV that I will be restoring)?

AFAIK there's no provions that mandate any sort of paperwork other than proof of ownership on vehicle that are 25 yrs or older here in the states. In other words bring what you want in.

[Chang-kuao-lo]

I MADE IT!! To Maryland, that is. Brought my BJ74 across in WA state with my temporary work visa in hand. I asked the border guards about the temporary importation documents, "I wouldn't really worry about that.", was their response. They wrote me up one anyway, but they didn't seem to give a crap either way.

The RHD thing in Maryland turns out to be BS in the end (already saw several RHD landrovers here, and a RHD cherokee), the inspection mechanics I talked to said that the inspection only states whether the steering is working properly, not what side it is on, no emission standards on diesel here either. Three months here, and the state troopers don't seem to give me a second look. I kept my BC plates and insurance, having the policy written as "out of province".

The question is: How much trouble will it be to title/license this thing if I decide to stay here? There is an importer right up the road from me, I am going to converse with them at lentgh to see what my options are. I will post any pertinent points from this discourse at a later date. I'm hoping that there is a way I can "fall through the cracks", and just go about my business.

What I hear a lot of: "Do y'all drive on the other side of the road in Canader?", "Yes, yes we do, be carefull if you ever visit up there."

[89GASHOG]

Originally Posted by Chang-kuao-lo

The question is: How much trouble will it be to title/license this thing if I decide to stay here? There is an importer right up the road from me, I am going to converse with them at lentgh to see what my options are. I will post any pertinent points from this discourse at a later date. I'm hoping that there is a way I can "fall through the cracks", and just go about my business.

What I hear a lot of: "Do y'all drive on the other side of the road in Canader?", "Yes, yes we do, be carefull if you ever visit up there."

That's great! I guess there's a lot of folks around there who've never visited Canada, eh? I'd like to see a photo of your rig, including the skull shifter. If you want to "fall through the cracks", how about keeping your truck registered in Canada until 2010, at which time you can legally register in US without the use of an importer? As I understand it, if your BJ was originally sold in Canada, you'd have no problem getting it titled in US right now. If not originally sold in Canada, then you may have a problem.

[patpend2000]

How about importing a vehicle from Mexico? Has anyone had that experience? It seems that there are rules for canadian vehicles, but what about vehicles from mexico? Nafta?

Kelly

[cruiser_guy]

Why import from Mexico? There were NO Land Cruiser's ever imported officially into Mexico as far as I know.

[patpend2000]

Sorry, this is for a non-cruiser from Mexico

[zander]

Originally Posted by theSherpa

I was not aware the B or H engines were ever EPA approved. What do the RI docs prove? I'm confused

Steve

Interestingly the docs do prove that those engine were approved for those years...

[paulj]

Originally Posted by cruiser_guy

p.p.s. Does anyone know the routine for importing a non-USA/Canada vehicle that is more than 25 years old (like the '67 FJ45LV that I will be restoring)?

Go to the Natl. Highway Traffic Safety Adim. website www.nhtsa.dot.gov and find the form you need to import what they call a "nonconforming motor vehicle". There's a place on the form to check if the vehicle is 25 years old or more.

[914Runners Son]

After reading through all 4 pages of this thread, it is leaving me somewhat dazed and confused.

I really want a 80 series LC with a diesel and a 5-speed, so the rig I want is a HDJ-80 right?

Now from reading around on this board, people are starting to bring those into Canada from Japan.

Now my question is: Can you LEGALLY bring those into the US from CA and register them?

Otherwise it looks like my only option is to swap in the 1HD-T and 5-spd. Which I wouldnt mind doing but the cost to import one as opposed to do the swap would probably come out as a wash, so it would just be easier to import one if at all possible.

Thanks

[crushers]

the cost will be close to the same when you take into consideration you are supplying the base unit. one advantage is you know your truck and what is right/wrong with it and another advantage is your truck is already titled in the states and is LHD.
we are working on getting the HDJ81s legal into the states but at this time we are only offering conversions...
cheers

[914Runners Son]

Can you legally import half cuts from Japan into the US?

Thanks

[crushers]

yep

[zander]

I have put the final update on my importing experiences up as i just got my HJ60 registration.... You can see it here:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php...3&postcount=94

hope it helps...

[Island Moose]

Wayne, I'm surprised to read that once a vehicle is given a Canadian VIN that it is still thought of as "offshore" by the USA? Did you have problems getting TLC his rag-top?