A note of sympathy for all the Democrat cruiserheads

[fj40charles]

On more thing gumby. I voted for George W. Bush.

[fsusteve]

Originally Posted by LongIsland60

I think people are tired of the bickering - no opinions will change. There is an easy argument, and if you really, really need it I can give it to you. (NTTAWWT )

You should check out some of swank's new threads - they are better uses of time than this thread.

Who are you and what did you do with LongIslander?

[Skillet]

Originally Posted by TLCA_Paul

Iran Contra.

Vietnam

[LongIsland60]

Originally Posted by swank60

I'll bite - well, I'll nibble.

If Republicans are the big Christian leaders, why are they all for getting rid of welfare, Medicaid and Medicare, or any of the other social programs designed to help poor people?

That right there seems 180 degrees out of Christ's phase. IIRC, Christ was about helping and giving everything of himself for other people, regardless of their social standing, whether they'd made poor moral decissions, or were lepers etc.

Dude, if swanker is biting, then I'm in.

re: roe vs wade - you should read up on the reason it stands.

What is the legal definition of life or a citizen, person, etc? Some people draw the line in different places.

[Jman]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

Instead of being big men and attacking me (you all appear to be professionals at that) why not argue the point?

Explain why I’m wrong.

Republicans are against killing innocent children in the WOMB (now many times do I have to say in general) and believe it's responsible to protect society and that murderers (in some situations) deserve to die!

Democrats are 180 degree out of that phase?

Can anyone argue which political philosophy has a greater moral relevance?

Without getting angry or without insults?

You are wrong because you over-generalize and cast your post in a way that can only incite anger, not dicussion. First, people who are pro-choice aren't "fine" with performing abortions, they just believe women should have some degree of control over pregnancy. You know anyone who has had an abortion? Ask her if she is "fine" with her decision. And not all Republicans are anti-abortion, and not all Democrats are pro-abortion. How can anyone have a discussion with someone like you in good faith on these issues?

And "political philosophy"? You think these party platforms are "philosophy"? They're strategies to get elected, that's all. You gonna tell me no Republican woman has gotten an abortion? All those wives in Congress (like the pun? ), all those female friends of Republican politicians that have, um, accidents?

[swank60]

Originally Posted by LongIsland60

Dude, if swanker is biting, then I'm in.

re: roe vs wade - you should read up on the reason it stands.

What is the legal definition of life or a citizen, person, etc? Some people draw the line in different places.

Can it live outside the womb?

[LongIsland60]

Originally Posted by fsusteve

Who are you and what did you do with LongIslander?

I am not a republican and I have contempt for BOTH sides of the aisle. And, to be frank, I am getting tired, or maybe I just spewed all my venom for a while.

[HZJ60 Guy]

Originally Posted by swank60

I'll bite - well, I'll nibble.

If Republicans are the big Christian leaders, why are they all for getting rid of welfare, Medicaid and Medicare, or any of the other social programs designed to help poor people?

That right there seems 180 degrees out of Christ's phase. IIRC, Christ was about helping and giving everything of himself for other people, regardless of their social standing, whether they'd made poor moral decissions, or were lepers etc.

THINK! Because those things ARENT THE RESPONSIBILITY of government!

Christianity and conservatism and the free market are not one and the same. It isnt the governments position or responsibility to do those things, it's the responsibility of each of us. After 911 it wasnt the gvt that fed all the charities that took care of the victims families, it was all of us that did.

[LongIsland60]

Originally Posted by swank60

Can it live outside the womb?

Whom?

[DirtyHarry]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

Explain why I’m wrong.

Republicans are against killing innocent children in the WOMB (now many times do I have to say in general) and believe it's responsible to protect society and that murderers (in some situations) deserve to die!

Democrats are 180 degree out of that phase?

I suppose when you said that Republicans see things as black and white is what meant as a compliment, but it is a rather backhanded one.

When does life begin? At the moment that an egg is fertilized? It seems to me that this is a GREY issue that is not agreed upon. So it is debatable that Democrats want to "kill innocent children" (and WANT isn't even really the right word). I cannot imagine that anyone WANTS to have an abortion, but I am grateful that we live someplace where women have that legal right. Are you and the Republicans offering to raise, clothe, and feed all of the unwanted children in this country? That would be the "moral" thing to do, right?

As for the death penalty (I am all for it personally), there are mistakes made from time to time. Once again, this is a shade of grey. Do you want to quantify how many innocent people it is OK to execute on Death Row? I sure don't. I have also heard (though I do not claim to have any hard facts or figures) that it costs more in legal fees to execute someone on Death Row than to imprison them for life.

[swank60]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

THINK! Because those things ARENT THE RESPONSIBILITY of government!

Christianity and conservatism and the free market are not one and the same. It isnt the governments position or responsibility to do those things, it's the responsibility of each of us. After 911 it wasnt the gvt that fed all the charities that took care of the victims families, it was all of us that did.

So if that's a key Christian value, and that isn't the govt's job, then why would we need a Christian leader?

Now, let's take your argument and turn it toward abortion: Is it the govt's responsibility, above the call of individual's right to liberty, to protect a developing cell (that cannot live on it's own without being attached to someone else's body - which could be said of any biological pathogen - whether is it cancer, a virus or otherwise.)???

You eiher want the got. in your business or you do not. Which is it?

[Skillet]

Originally Posted by Gumby

and the man who will go down in history as the Worst President Ever.
Nice group

Jimmy Carter

[swank60]

Originally Posted by LongIsland60

Whom?

Oh no you di-in't!

[LongIsland60]

Originally Posted by DirtyHarry

I suppose when you said that Republicans see things as black and white is what meant as a compliment, but it is a rather backhanded one.

When does life begin? At the moment that an egg is fertilized? It seems to me that this is a GREY issue that is not agreed upon. So it is debatable that Democrats want to "kill innocent children" (and WANT isn't even really the right word). I cannot imagine that anyone WANTS to have an abortion, but I am grateful that we live someplace where women have that legal right. Are you and the Republicans offering to raise, clothe, and feed all of the unwanted children in this country? That would be the "moral" thing to do, right?

As for the death penalty (I am all for it personally), there are mistakes made from time to time. Once again, this is a shade of grey. Do you want to quantify how many innocent people it is OK to execute on Death Row? I sure don't. I have also heard (though I do not claim to have any hard facts or figures) that it costs more in legal fees to execute someone on Death Row than to imprison them for life.

Did someone say "Gray?"

[HZJ60 Guy]

Originally Posted by Jman

You are wrong because you over-generalize and cast your post in a way that can only incite anger, not dicussion. First, people who are pro-choice aren't "fine" with performing abortions, they just believe women should have some degree of control over pregnancy. You know anyone who has had an abortion? Ask her if she is "fine" with her decision. And not all Republicans are anti-abortion, and not all Democrats are pro-abortion. How can anyone have a discussion with someone like you in good faith on these issues?

And "political philosophy"? You think these party platforms are "philosophy"? They're strategies to get elected, that's all. You gonna tell me no Republican woman has gotten an abortion? All those wives in Congress (like the pun? ), all those female friends of Republican politicians that have, um, accidents?

I SAID (A DOZEN TIMES) IN GENERAL! In general these are the ideologies of the parties involved. In general democrats are pro abortion and in general republicans are anti abortion! Whether you like it or not that's the way it is.

And whether you like it or not each party has a philosophy that their platforms are based off of and that they stand on.

"they just believe women should have some degree of control over pregnancy."

You see that's where you loose your argument before it starts. EVERY woman already has that ability BEFORE she gets pregnant! It's about responsibility, and the democrats dont agree that people should be heald accountable for that responsibility.

" How can anyone have a discussion with someone like you in good faith on these issues?"

That's your failing, not mine. That you cant remain calm speaks more of you than it does me.

[Jman]

Originally Posted by LongIsland60

Whom?

LOL.

[beaufort-fj60]

Originally Posted by swank60

I'll bite - well, I'll nibble.

If Republicans are the big Christian leaders, why are they all for getting rid of welfare, Medicaid and Medicare, or any of the other social programs designed to help poor people?

That right there seems 180 degrees out of Christ's phase. IIRC, Christ was about helping and giving everything of himself for other people, regardless of their social standing, whether they'd made poor moral decissions, or were lepers etc.

conservative: organized religion, local municipalities, state gov't takes care of the poor, why the hell should the federal gubment pay for it.

liberal: faceless organized federal government takes care of poor, why the hell should I let my neighbors know I need help.

[koop]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

After 911 it wasnt the gvt that fed all the charities that took care of the victims families, it was all of us that did.

Really:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Families of victims of the September 11 attacks will receive, on average, about $1.5 million from government and other sources -- excluding charities -- under regulations announced Thursday by the Justice Department.

The range will be from $300,000 to families of single people earning as little as $10,000 per year to as much as $3 million for top-earners with large families.

[swank60]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

You see that's where you loose your argument before it starts. EVERY woman already has that ability BEFORE she gets pregnant! It's about responsibility, and the democrats dont agree that people should be heald accountable for that responsibility.

That's more of a talking point than it is a realistic argument. People get pregnant. People who take precautions get pregnant. If you're a christian, it seems that Christianity is based all around a woman who didn't have sex, who STILL had a baby…

Not everyone needs to be a parent - and it's their decission to make - or it's the govts. Which is it?

[swank60]

Originally Posted by beaufort-fj60

conservative: organized religion, local municipalities, state gov't takes care of the poor, why the hell should the federal gubment pay for it.

liberal: faceless organized federal government takes care of poor, why the hell should I let my neighbors know I need help.

I'm not arguing for or against, I'm arguing the point. If you want a Christian leader, he should do Christian things. A leader, if he's going to go at it from a "Christian" POV should not be able to pick and choose where his beliefs should or should not be applied.

"Well, I'm against abortion becase I'm a Christian. I'm against welfare because I'm a conservative." doesn't wash, IMO.

[HZJ60 Guy]

Originally Posted by koop

Really:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Families of victims of the September 11 attacks will receive, on average, about $1.5 million from government and other sources -- excluding charities -- under regulations announced Thursday by the Justice Department.

The range will be from $300,000 to families of single people earning as little as $10,000 per year to as much as $3 million for top-earners with large families.

Yea, that was paltry to the over one billion donated to all the charities by the US population. Besides, that fact that the government did what they did doesnt mean that they should have.

[swank60]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

Yea, that was paltry to the over one billion donated to all the charities by the US population. Besides, that fact that the government did what they did doesnt mean that they should have.

So they need to be born, but who cares about them after that, is that what you're argument is? If so, that's sounding less and less Christian and more and more Ayn Rand. And she sucks.

[Nay]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

To the Marxist democrats the world is GREY!
To the conservative right the world is black and white.

Did you know that "black and white thinking" is considered a core pyschological issue? Here is the rest of an excellent core issues list:

Fear of Abandonment
Black and White Thinking
Control
Trust
Internalized Shame
Feeling Disorders....Frozen Feelings
Dependent
Manipulative Behavior
Unclear Boundaries
High Tolerance for Inappropriate Behavior
Difficulty Resolving Conflict
Difficulty Being Real...False Self or Fixed Roles
Ungrieved Original Pain
Intimacy Issues....Difficulty Giving/Receiving Love

If this doesn't read like a laundry list (in general) of the republican psychological makeup, I don't know what does.

Nay

[Jman]

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

I SAID (A DOZEN TIMES) IN GENERAL!

. . . .

That you cant remain calm speaks more of you than it does me.

Where have I not remained calm? You seem to be the one typing in caps. Just because I think you are an idiot and I like to make fun of your posts doesn't mean I'm not calm.

I'll repeat my question, that you will never answer, I suppose--I guess no Republican woman has ever had an abortion?

You want to generalize about people and paint them all with the same brush, I guess that's your right, but it's an artificial construct, it's something that's done to elicit political support, which is not a civil activity any more, in my opinion. You want to say that all Democrats are immoral, have less of a "moral center" fine. But let me know when you find out the exact percentage of the population that thinks all abortions be illegal and get back to me, okay?