So what does it really feel like? Front auto-locker + full-time 4wd

'74 UA FJ · 10-15-08, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaterGator

The point of a locker is to engage until the torque difference between the two output shafts is zero, which only happens while coasting and when they are unloaded. Once it locks in a turn, it's not going to unlock until you can straighten out or come to a stop and back up. It'd be a mess.

It will actually unlock during a turn if you back off of the throttle. And that is from experience. Sure you get some popping, jerking, and chirping, but that's life with an auto locker.

NaterGator · 10-15-08, 09:16 AM

The rears usually unlock because they hop and unload the shafts (chirping) so if there isn't torque from the pinion the locker disengages. What I'm saying is that I think something is going to break or it is going to be impossibly difficult to control before the hopping unlock would happen.

Never driven an auto-locked front end though, so I'm just making an educated guess based on the principles of operation of an autolocker.

cruiser88 · 10-15-08, 09:24 AM

Bobby long is your freind

-Spike- · 10-15-08, 09:53 AM

Here's my no-B.S. suggestion, because I feel bad for the busload of nuns that will surely be in front of you when you first drive your auto-locked-front 80 through a left turn. Get the hubs. Install the locker, install the hubs at the same time. Test-drive the truck in your neighborhood. Try to keep the locker from engaging, and if you're successful, then try to get it to lock, as it surely will sometime when you least expect it.

What you need to take into consideration is that even if you don't break anything, the steering will get extremely difficult through turns if/when the locker engages. The worst thing that could happen is that the locker DOESN'T engage for the first few times you drive it and you get comfortable with it. Before you know it, there's that busload of nuns across the intersection as the light's turning yellow, your buddy on your cell phone distracts you, you give it a bit of gas while turning with the heel of your hand, and blammo- the Pope is up your ass.

-Spike

Mace · 10-15-08, 10:32 AM

My god you guys are dramatic...

An aussie will not lock under low power. If you punch it, the locker will engage.. If you don't punch it, you can have the locker open just like normal.

Turning will be stiffer when the locker is engaged. Fact of life, but not a huge deal. It is not bad enough that you will end up killing nuns and school children.

Personaly, I think it is a bad idea because of the center viscous coupling. If you had a real tcase in there. I would say knock yourself out..

cruiser88 · 10-15-08, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

My god you guys are dramatic...

An aussie will not lock under low power. If you punch it, the locker will engage.. If you don't punch it, you can have the locker open just like normal.

Turning will be stiffer when the locker is engaged. Fact of life, but not a huge deal. It is not bad enough that you will end up killing nuns and school children.

Personaly, I think it is a bad idea because of the center viscous coupling. If you had a real tcase in there. I would say knock yourself out..

Wind bag

alkaline747trio · 10-15-08, 11:21 AM

Mace, no VC in my case...just gears and an e-locker.

And guys, I'm not dumb. When I try this, I'm going to start in my apartment's parking lot. If that is fine, I move on to 25mph streets with plenty of stop lights and signs. If that tests fine, I get on a 40mph road that feels like you could do 80mph on it. Then, if somehow I am not dead yet or convicted of 30 counts of vehicular man slaughter I'll move to 55mph back roads and 65mph highways.

I really just don't see how my rear locker never locks up when I'm turning but you guys keep saying that my front locker will be a spool....it's an auto-locker, doesn't that mean it only locks when one tire is slipping?

The thing is, nobody ever talks about actually trying this. It is always just speculated to be catastrophic. But people said the same thing about running 38s. And being lifted 6" without a DC driveshaft. And not using sway bars.

Now I just need to get an answer to the EFI tuning question I've been asking for a week or better........

NaterGator · 10-15-08, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

Mace, no VC in my case...just gears and an e-locker.

And guys, I'm not dumb. When I try this, I'm going to start in my apartment's parking lot. If that is fine, I move on to 25mph streets with plenty of stop lights and signs. If that tests fine, I get on a 40mph road that feels like you could do 80mph on it. Then, if somehow I am not dead yet or convicted of 30 counts of vehicular man slaughter I'll move to 55mph back roads and 65mph highways.

I really just don't see how my rear locker never locks up when I'm turning but you guys keep saying that my front locker will be a spool....it's an auto-locker, doesn't that mean it only locks when one tire is slipping?

The thing is, nobody ever talks about actually trying this. It is always just speculated to be catastrophic. But people said the same thing about running 38s. And being lifted 6" without a DC driveshaft. And not using sway bars.

Now I just need to get an answer to the EFI tuning question I've been asking for a week or better........

Well, I think it's possible that you'll get around with it in the front, but turning 38s in a landcruiser on asphalt with a front locker is asking for damage, imo. If nothing else you're going to significantly increase wear on the front end until you get manual hubs.

Also, I don't know how often you get snow, but I can't imagine trying to drive such a setup in the snow. I imagine it'd be a pretty uncomfortable experience. YMMV.

lowtideride · 10-15-08, 11:44 AM

Dude spend 80 bucks on some Aisin hubs. Done deal.

Ran the 80 like this for years...

Web wheelers.

Mace · 10-15-08, 11:49 AM

In 4wd, in good traction conditions, on the street with a locker or without, if you are just gear drive the system will bind up. There is just not enough slip in the drivetrain to accomidate that situation. Which is why Toyota added the VC to their full time trucks. Slip from front to rear is needed.

In low traction conditions, it will be fine.

I always get a kick of how many people theorize what it is like to drive a locked truck in the snow/ice.. it is not that bad. Truly.. It just takes a slight alteration in your driving style.

cruiser88 · 10-15-08, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

In 4wd, in good traction conditions, on the street with a locker or without, if you are just gear drive the system will bind up. There is just not enough slip in the drivetrain to accomidate that situation. Which is why Toyota added the VC to their full time trucks. Slip from front to rear is needed.

In low traction conditions, it will be fine.

I always get a kick of how many people theorize what it is like to drive a locked truck in the snow/ice.. it is not that bad. Truly.. It just takes a slight alteration in your driving style.

amen my man.

personal experience for me is when the rear is locked....hell if you are good no need for four drive even in several inches of snow.

My only advise to the po is if you are running 38's and locked up front get some longfields

alkaline747trio · 10-15-08, 02:41 PM

I said in the first post that I was going to a part-time kit, I assume locking hubs as part of this kit.....IOW...I AM INSTALLING HUBS!

Mace, mine doesn't have a VC. And it doesn't need one. I have 3 differentials, an open front (soon to be lunch box locked), an open center with electronic lock (no VC at all), and a lunch box locked rear. They added the VC so that you wouldn't get 100% torque transfer to the front or rear, instead it limits you to, I believe, 70% transfer. So a '93+ always has atleast 30% torque to either axle where mine can have none.

Longfields are useless....1 tons are the solution.

cruiser88 · 10-15-08, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

I said in the first post that I was going to a part-time kit, I assume locking hubs as part of this kit.....IOW...I AM INSTALLING HUBS!

Mace, mine doesn't have a VC. And it doesn't need one. I have 3 differentials, an open front (soon to be lunch box locked), an open center with electronic lock (no VC at all), and a lunch box locked rear. They added the VC so that you wouldn't get 100% torque transfer to the front or rear, instead it limits you to, I believe, 70% transfer. So a '93+ always has atleast 30% torque to either axle where mine can have none.

Longfields are useless....1 tons are the solution.

Longfields are useless....1 tons are the solution

ok...you know it all

Then why waste your time and fuck with the front end....just go to the one ton?

cruiser88 · 10-15-08, 02:57 PM

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...as-landed.html

JJS · 10-15-08, 02:59 PM

Try putting a banana peel in the microwave; it feels a lot like that.

Hilux · 10-15-08, 03:08 PM

y'all are waiting yer breath. He'll just argue and dismiss all this info, and in about 6months repost another STUPID question.

This is why you need to learn to build a truck, not just throw shit at it.

1tons?

A PT TC?

A V8?

A Ford tranny?

Lockers?

ARB's?

All his questions negate the responses b/c he has NO IDEA which direction he wants to go....

wob · 10-15-08, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hilux

y'all are waiting yer breath. He'll just argue and dismiss all this info, and in about 6months repost another STUPID question.

This is why you need to learn to build a truck, not just throw shit at it.

1tons?

A PT TC?

A V8?

A Ford tranny?

Lockers?

ARB's?

All his questions negate the responses b/c he has NO IDEA which direction he wants to go....

pot/kettle

alkaline747trio · 10-15-08, 04:12 PM

I know what I want....but what I want ain't gonna happen now. So I get what I can afford to learn along the way first hand why I want what I want.

Gotta blow up my axles before I can say I need 1-tons. And I'll probably have Longfields before I have 1-tons.

And I know I want a V8. But why not work my L6 first?

I would rather have a beefy 6-speed automatic, but I don't know much about that ZF-6 from the Navigator. And my current tranny is crapping out so I might beef up this 4 speed bus slush box.

I like the full-time 4wd I have, but keeping it forces me to spend a bunch of money on an ARB. And the low-range solutions for it aren't the cheapest or easiest, so maybe I'll ditch that. But then don't I have to have a different tranny?

Wait? Isn't this still technically my DD? But I don't drive much. I'm 3 hours from home. My other car is at home. But I can't have both here. I like doing the extreme stuff. But I really just do middle of the pack stuff ALL THE TIME. Do I like hauling ass on the service roads and jumping the whoops at URE more than I like crawling up Kodak with my eyes closed? Why isn't my A/C working? I need to put that thermostat back in. I still have this feeling that this damn engine doesn't run just right. Is it lean? Are ticking valves that bad? Fuck I don't want to pay someone to adjust them. But I'll probably get it wrong again. Maybe they will too. Spongy brake pedal, pop back up from nowhere why dont ya! What about that damn tree that's fallen over on Special Trail up here at school that keeps me from fitting my tall ass through the trail? Now I've gotta go down the fun hill climb or deal with that mud-hole that stuck me up twice last year. But my boggers are at home. I can't drive interstate for 3+ hours on 38s with a 3FE.......................................the point is, Hilux; I know what I want. I can't afford what I want. And I can't make much of an attempt at what I want in the position that I'm in up here at school.

alkaline747trio · 10-15-08, 04:14 PM

So, Mace...is breakage likely with a locked/open/locked FJ80 driving gently around town?

Mace · 10-15-08, 04:44 PM

no more than any other car with the same setup. Hell, the locker won't even engage in the front till you put power into it. It will essentially be an open diff.

Hank · 10-15-08, 05:30 PM

I dd'd an XJ back in my Jeep days. Detroits front and rear, chain case stuck in high, no CAD on the front end. I drove it like that for a couple weeks 32 miles each way to my shop and back on Hwy 41. I got cocky one day and whipped a corner under all the power my 243xxx mile 2.46L Jeep 4cyl could muster (IIRC 23 BHP) and snapped the chain in the case. END OF RIDE. Then it got an atlas and life was good!

It is doable.

alkaline747trio · 10-15-08, 05:34 PM

And by power and a 3FE you pretty much mean 1/2 throttle or better? Sounds like all the hearsay about this setup might be faulty.....just gotta find me a lunchbox locker. Oh and do I have to disassemble the 3rd to put one in, or is it like the rear was and I don't have to unbolt the gears?

'74 UA FJ · 10-15-08, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaterGator

Also, I don't know how often you get snow, but I can't imagine trying to drive such a setup in the snow. I imagine it'd be a pretty uncomfortable experience. YMMV.

A four wheel locked truck in the snow and ice is the shit.

cruiser88 · 10-15-08, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

And by power and a 3FE you pretty much mean 1/2 throttle or better? Sounds like all the hearsay about this setup might be faulty.....just gotta find me a lunchbox locker. Oh and do I have to disassemble the 3rd to put one in, or is it like the rear was and I don't have to unbolt the gears?

There are no c-clips in the front but you do have to pull the birfs/axles.

You must pull the third cause there is no access cover like there is on the rear.

cruiser88 · 10-15-08, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by '74 UA FJ

A four wheel locked truck in the snow and ice is the shit.

Its fun

'74 UA FJ · 10-15-08, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

And by power and a 3FE you pretty much mean 1/2 throttle or better? Sounds like all the hearsay about this setup might be faulty.....just gotta find me a lunchbox locker. Oh and do I have to disassemble the 3rd to put one in, or is it like the rear was and I don't have to unbolt the gears?

You'll have to pull the whole third, obviously, because there is no front cover. I don't know about tearing it down though. I haven't worked on an 80 front, but I know it's a different design than the 80 rear/40 front and rear diffs. So, little help with this post, haha.

alkaline747trio · 10-15-08, 06:25 PM

Yep, knew I had to do all that....kinda hoping some used 80 longs pop up for sale soon, or like new for cheap. I still need to find some cheap aisin hubs that don't need rebuilding, possibly some dirt cheap IFS w/ Bobby's hub gear. Then I can decide how crucial a 2wd conversion is. Locked center, unlocked hubs....but be lazy and don't unbolt the driveshaft?

lowtideride · 10-15-08, 06:34 PM

Dude.

Buy 60 series Aisin hubs, bolt on. Click CDL. No binding, no locking, no problems...

Because the front will be disconnected, just like driving a 60 series.

Hilux · 10-15-08, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

I know what I want....

no, you don't

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

but what I want ain't gonna happen now. So I get what I can afford to learn along the way first hand why I want what I want.

great philosophy there....

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

Gotta blow up my axles before I can say I need 1-tons. And I'll probably have Longfields before I have 1-tons.

Longfields. Free (

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

And I know I want a V8. But why not work my L6 first?

Ricing out yer 3FE to just to find out how hard you can push it b/f it's a paperweight?

over $1,000

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

I would rather have a beefy 6-speed automatic,

Then....? Put one in the motherfucker? Or you could....

Throw a thou or 2, (labor, unless you gonna do it yourself?) at yer old slushbox?....just to find out it won't work for you in the long run?

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

but I don't know much about that ZF-6 from the Navigator. And my current tranny is ****ping out so I might beef up this 4 speed bus slush box.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

I like the full-time 4wd I have,

Then stop saying your gonna throw another wad of money at it converting it to part time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

but keeping it forces me to spend a bunch of money on an ARB.

Jeezus!! how did we ever get by with out ARB?...oh, I know, we didn't lockup full time rigs! We just welded up the rear, since we drive mostly linnear and it doesn't effect the overall drivability that much....

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

And the low-range solutions for it aren't the cheapest or easiest, so maybe I'll ditch that. But then don't I have to have a different tranny?

Wait? Isn't this still technically my DD? But I don't drive much. I'm 3 hours from home. My other car is at home. But I can't have both here. I like doing the extreme stuff. But I really just do middle of the pack stuff ALL THE TIME. Do I like hauling ass on the service roads and jumping the whoops at URE more than I like crawling up Kodak with my eyes closed? Why isn't my A/C working? I need to put that thermostat back in. I still have this feeling that this damn engine doesn't run just right. Is it lean? Are ticking valves that bad? **** I don't want to pay someone to adjust them. But I'll probably get it wrong again. Maybe they will too. Spongy brake pedal, pop back up from nowhere why dont ya! What about that damn tree that's fallen over on Special Trail up here at school that keeps me from fitting my tall ass through the trail? Now I've gotta go down the fun hill climb or deal with that mud-hole that stuck me up twice last year. But my boggers are at home. I can't drive interstate for 3+ hours on 38s with a 3FE.......................................the point is, Hilux; I know what I want.

You got gearzzz fer dem dare turdy-8's yet?

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

I can't afford what I want. And I can't make much of an attempt at what I want in the position that I'm in up here at school.

But you're gonna spend (waste) a small fortune in parts, wasted parts BTW, cause they will be no good when you have demolished them and swap them out...and countless hours of yours and someone elses labor...?

Weld the front diff, collage boy!

, no don't. But if you put a pocket locker in there you might as well...b/c under power the crosspin forces the two sides out, and that is what locks (spools) the diff. A locked diff has no differentiation, like a spool. And a front diff with a pocket locker drives like a bitch...LIKE A SPOOL!

Hilux · 10-15-08, 06:44 PM

Get some 5.29's, tune up yer 3fe and drop a 2f crank in it with 9:1 pistons!

DONE!!! Imo, it will pull those 38's and just get some E's or ARB's as you go.

Pocket locker the REAR and that should be well enough to get you by.....unless you absolutely MUST destroy what you drive?....then forgo all that and buy an old Asplund truck and convert your 80 to 366, Alison AT or Eaton 6sp, and just divorce the TC and get you some rockwells.