[beaufort-fj60]

Originally Posted by Creeker

I think I'll go over to FreeRepublic to get a more balanced perspective on the candidates. Or maybe my local Klan rally.

Do the Klan still rally? I haven't seen one since the early 80s.

[cruiser88]

Originally Posted by beaufort-fj60

Do the Klan still rally? I haven't seen one since the early 80s.

74 did not send you a invite?

[bkg]

I don't get the "he has the experience" comments from the Dems this week. WHAT EXPERIENCE?!?!?

On the flip side, perhaps the lack of experience can be a benefit, but in these turbulent times, I would suggest not. Obama scares me... simply scares me.

[whodat]

Originally Posted by bkg

I don't get the "he has the experience" comments from the Dems this week. WHAT EXPERIENCE?!?!?

On the flip side, perhaps the lack of experience can be a benefit, but in these turbulent times, I would suggest not. Obama scares me... simply scares me.

He gave a speech in 2002...

[Creeker]

Originally Posted by bkg

I don't get the "he has the experience" comments from the Dems this week. WHAT EXPERIENCE?!?!?

On the flip side, perhaps the lack of experience can be a benefit, but in these turbulent times, I would suggest not. Obama scares me... simply scares me.

An old guy with a bad temper and an ideology of war with his finger on the button - that's scary.

A guy who wants to give even bigger tax breaks to the wealthiest people in this country, but not to the middle class - that's scary.

A guy who confuses Shia with Sunni in the most volatile region in the world - that's scary.

A guy who wants to relive the Cold War (we are all Georgians, WTF?) - that's scary.

A guy who's reversed himself on many of his most important positions - "Candidate McCain now supports the wartime tax cuts that Senator McCain once denounced as immoral. Candidate McCain criticizes Senator McCain's own climate change bill. Candidate McCain says he would now vote against the immigration bill that Senator McCain wrote." - that's scary.

I could go on, but instead I'll ask: What do you find scary about Obama?

[bkg]

Originally Posted by Creeker

An old guy with a bad temper and an ideology of war with his finger on the button - that's scary.

Proof, please.

A guy who wants to give even bigger tax breaks to the wealthiest people in this country, but not to the middle class - that's scary.

Ya know, I've never worked for a poor person. Rich people, surprisingly, pay me. The top 10% pay a VAST MAJORITY OF THE TAXES IN THIS COUNTRY! I friggen pay just over 50%... and I'm not rich. BTW - Might want to look up the definition of rich.

A guy who confuses Shia with Sunni in the most volatile region in the world - that's scary.

Don't even get me started on what Obama confuses.... Marxism and freedom are not the same.

A guy who wants to relive the Cold War (we are all Georgians, WTF?) - that's scary.

Proof that you can read his mind on what he wants. Thank you

A guy who's reversed himself on many of his most important positions - "Candidate McCain now supports the wartime tax cuts that Senator McCain once denounced as immoral. Candidate McCain criticizes Senator McCain's own climate change bill. Candidate McCain says he would now vote against the immigration bill that Senator McCain wrote." - that's scary.

And owned up to all of them.

I could go on, but instead I'll ask: What do you find scary about Obama?

Are you serious?
Marxist.
Supports infanticide.
Wants to steal money from private and publicly held companies
has already planned $1.5 trillion in new spending that he can't support
Thinks gas is too cheap
Doesn't support drilling
Anti 1st and 2nd amendment
No foreign policy experience - no experience, period
Good friends with known terrorist
Uses the race card daily
Can't speak w/o a prompter
Hardly has a position on most important issues
Hasn't defined "change"
Will tax the hell out of us - did I mention I already pay about 50%???
Marxist, Socialist and nearly communist
Tax and Spend
No experience

Want me to go on? Jeez - you people drinking the Political-Jesus' Kool-Aid nead to learn to think!

Not to mention he guy has an upside down flag on his convention pass:

[whodat]

Creeker likes high taxes...

[koop]

Originally Posted by bkg

Proof, please.



Ya know, I've never worked for a poor person. Rich people, surprisingly, pay me. The top 10% pay a VAST MAJORITY OF THE TAXES IN THIS COUNTRY! I friggen pay just over 50%... and I'm not rich. BTW - Might want to look up the definition of rich.



Don't even get me started on what Obama confuses.... Marxism and freedom are not the same.



Proof that you can read his mind on what he wants. Thank you



And owned up to all of them.



Are you serious?
Marxist.
Supports infanticide.
Wants to steal money from private and publicly held companies
has already planned $1.5 trillion in new spending that he can't support
Thinks gas is too cheap
Doesn't support drilling
Anti 1st and 2nd amendment
No foreign policy experience - no experience, period
Good friends with known terrorist
Uses the race card daily
Can't speak w/o a prompter
Hardly has a position on most important issues
Hasn't defined "change"
Will tax the hell out of us - did I mention I already pay about 50%???
Marxist, Socialist and nearly communist
Tax and Spend
No experience

Want me to go on? Jeez - you people drinking the Political-Jesus' Kool-Aid nead to learn to think!

Not to mention he guy has an upside down flag on his convention pass:

wow, you are just scary stupid

[lunyou]

Wow, McCain is winning at a 2:1 ratio? On this board?

Surprising thats all.

lunyou

[Jan-78FJ40]

Originally Posted by lunyou

Wow, McCain is winning at a 2:1 ratio? On this board?

Surprising thats all.

lunyou

enlighten me why it is surprising that the right wing candidate wins on a right wing board?

[RavenTai]

Originally Posted by Jan-78FJ40

enlighten me why it is surprising that the right wing candidate wins on a right wing board?

Originally Posted by whodat

Check out the results from a similar poll done in june. You flip floppers...

http://forum.ih8mud.com/chit-chat-se...an-voting.html

Mud is trending the same direction as the nation.

Barack Obama’s ‘flat line’ in polls spells trouble - BostonHerald.com

[78-FJ40]

Originally Posted by koop

Dude, they could show you films of McCain wiping the shit off his dick with the Constitution after fucking a six month old orphan and you'd still vote for McCain.

When an extreme liberal like Obama is the other choice, Yep. An extremist of any type (liberal, conservative, etc.) is not the best choice to run the country.

[78-FJ40]

Originally Posted by Jan-78FJ40

enlighten me why it is surprising that the right wing candidate wins on a right wing board?

Did you say right wing board? Really? You actually said that?

Why did Obama win the first poll?

[bkg]

Originally Posted by koop

wow, you are just scary stupid

Oh... do tell. Please enlighten me.

[78-FJ40]

Originally Posted by koop

wow, you are just scary stupid

Right, because his opinion differs from yours.

[Creeker]

Originally Posted by bkg

An old guy with a bad temper and an ideology of war with his finger on the button - that's scary. Proof, please.

Of what? That he’s old, or that he has a bad temper? Really? His ideology of war is proven by his positions. That his finger is on the button goes with the position of POTUS.

Originally Posted by bkg

A guy who wants to give even bigger tax breaks to the wealthiest people in this country, but not to the middle class - that's scary. Ya know, I've never worked for a poor person. Rich people, surprisingly, pay me. The top 10% pay a VAST MAJORITY OF THE TAXES IN THIS COUNTRY! I friggen pay just over 50%... and I'm not rich. BTW - Might want to look up the definition of rich.

You’re right, McCain has defined what “rich” is. Over 5 million. Warren Buffet has said the tax system is unfair – that the rich don’t pay enough. Obama’s plan raises taxes only on those who make more than $250,000 a year. I make a whole lot less than that, and so does 80% of the country.

Originally Posted by bkg

A guy who confuses Shia with Sunni in the most volatile region in the world - that's scary. Don't even get me started on what Obama confuses.... Marxism and freedom are not the same.

So you’re not concerned about McCain’s poor grasp of reality? And should I just sprinkle Fascism throughout my text to balance out your random use of Marxism?

Originally Posted by bkg

A guy who wants to relive the Cold War (we are all Georgians, WTF?) - that's scary. Proof that you can read his mind on what he wants. Thank you

No need to read his mind; he speaks it - McCain: 'We are all Georgians' - First Read - msnbc.com Check out the comments too.

He again demonstrated a lack of understanding of crises in the world:
John McCain: Georgia-Russia Is the First International Crisis Since the End of the Cold War - Robert Schlesinger (usnews.com)

Originally Posted by bkg

A guy who's reversed himself on many of his most important positions - And owned up to all of them.

And that makes it OK?

Originally Posted by bkg

I could go on, but instead I'll ask: What do you find scary about Obama?
Are you serious?
Marxist.

Are you serious? That is so weak… http://forum.ih8mud.com/chit-chat-se...-mccarthy.html

Originally Posted by bkg

Supports infanticide.

if you mean that he he supports abortion rights, guilty as charged.

Originally Posted by bkg

Wants to steal money from private and publicly held companies

Prove it.

Originally Posted by bkg

has already planned $1.5 trillion in new spending that he can't support

as opposed to the current administration?

Originally Posted by bkg

Thinks gas is too cheap

prove it.

Originally Posted by bkg

Doesn't support drilling

He supports limited expanded drilling, but wants the oil companies to drill where they already have permission to do so first.

Originally Posted by bkg

Anti 1st and 2nd amendment

Anti 1st? Prove it. Anti 2nd? Yeah, he’s for gun control, which is the weakest plank of the Dem party platform. But it doesn’t make him any more scary than any other Dem.

Originally Posted by bkg

No foreign policy experience - no experience, period

just like Lincoln, Wilson, and FDR? How Good Are Experienced Presidents?

Originally Posted by bkg

Good friends with known terrorist

“good friends” he is not. Ayers is a terrorist, yet is also disgustingly part of the far left political powers in Chicago. Obama played politics with him. That is a valid criticism of politics in Chicago, and the fact that Obama is “just” a politician, but it doesn’t make Obama his friend. Obama once visited '60s radicals - Ben Smith - Politico.com

Originally Posted by bkg

Uses the race card daily

prove it.

Originally Posted by bkg

Can't speak w/o a prompter

You prefer Bush’s mangling of the english language, I suppose. And why would this be “scary” anyway?

Originally Posted by bkg

Hardly has a position on most important issues

Yes he does Barack Obama on the Issues

Originally Posted by bkg

Hasn't defined "change"

actually, he has, but you aren’t listening.

Originally Posted by bkg

Will tax the hell out of us - did I mention I already pay about 50%???

Obama’s plan cuts taxes more than McCain’s

“If enacted, the Obama and McCain tax plans would have radically different effects on the distribution of tax burdens in the United States. The Obama tax plan would make the tax system significantly more progressive by providing large tax breaks to those at the bottom of the income scale and raising taxes significantly on upper-income earners. The McCain tax plan would make the tax system more regressive, even compared with a system in which the 2001–06 tax cuts are made permanent. It would do so by providing relatively little tax relief to those at the bottom of the income scale while providing huge tax cuts to households at the very top of the income distribution.”

See the chart here: TaxProf Blog: Comparison of the McCain and Obama Tax Plans (the author does note later in his article that he doesn’t see how either candidate will pay for their plans)

Originally Posted by bkg

Marxist, Socialist and nearly communist

You love to say this. prove it.

Originally Posted by bkg

Tax and Spend

prove it.

Originally Posted by bkg

No experience

see above.

Originally Posted by bkg

Want me to go on? Jeez - you people drinking the Right-wing tools’ Kool-Aid nead to learn to think!

right back at ya.

Originally Posted by bkg

Not to mention he guy has an upside down flag on his convention pass:

that is so lame…

[cruiser88]

[78-FJ40]

So conservatives think Obama is a douche and liberals think McCain is a douche. Glad that was cleared up.

[Creeker]

Originally Posted by 78-FJ40

So conservatives think Obama is a douche and liberals think McCain is a douche. Glad that was cleared up.

I think that just about sums it up. Boy, did I just waste a bunch of time on my previous post.

[Cruisin'Carolina]

Originally Posted by koop

wow, you are just scary stupid

With all due respect, could you elaborate on which points he brought up that are "stupid" and back up your position with something a little more factual as opposed to offensive?

[bkg]

Originally Posted by Creeker

Of what? That he’s old, or that he has a bad temper? Really? His ideology of war is proven by his positions. That his finger is on the button goes with the position of POTUS.

You keep stating his finger is on the button but haven't backed that up. Do I think he would do more to protect this country than BO? Yes. Is there any indication that he's looking for a fight? No.

You’re right, McCain has defined what “rich” is. Over 5 million. Warren Buffet has said the tax system is unfair – that the rich don’t pay enough. Obama’s plan raises taxes only on those who make more than $250,000 a year. I make a whole lot less than that, and so does 80% of the country.

Buffet is a complete an utter idiot. Smart with money, yes, but otherwise a moron. He makes money off of the death tax, often by buying companies and private businesses from families that can't afford to pay the death tax. He's a user.

As for his continued complaint that his secretary pays more in percentage of income than he does, there are three very large flaws with that arguement:
1 - he doesn't get a salary. Guess who chooses to get paid via stocks, dividends, bonuses? He does. So to bitch about his percentages is hypocritical.
2 - NO ONE is preventing him from writing a check to the IRS/Treasury. NO ONE. If he thinks he should pay more in taxes, then write an f'n check or STFU.
3 - He pays, overall, MUCH MORE $$ in taxes than his secretary. Percentage really doesn't mean anything when he's paying 10-100X the amount, IMHO. Yes, there are limits to that argument and I recognize them.

So you’re not concerned about McCain’s poor grasp of reality? And should I just sprinkle Fascism throughout my text to balance out your random use of Marxism?

Obama and McCain both have a poor grasp of reality in many cases. McCain voted to give SS to illegals. He's an idiot for that. Obama is the most leftist, Socialist, and indeed Marxist Senator in congress right now. BTW - you need to look up fascist - I don't think it means what you think it means.

No need to read his mind; he speaks it - McCain: 'We are all Georgians' - First Read - msnbc.com Check out the comments too.

Here's the thing. Georgians are our ally. I'm sure you know what that means. We, as in this administration, have taken a hard line, but that does NOT mean we are interested in another cold war... You're digging.

He again demonstrated a lack of understanding of crises in the world:
John McCain: Georgia-Russia Is the First International Crisis Since the End of the Cold War - Robert Schlesinger (usnews.com)

And Obama wants to sit down with Terrorist Leaders and Leaders of Terrorist nations with no pretense. You're okay with that? Talk about disconnected wtih no idea of reality!!!

Frankly, I agree with McCain, when taken in context.

if you mean that he he supports abortion rights, guilty as charged.

Uh.. He was key in promoting and signing a bill in Illinois that protected Drs. from being charged with murder should they kill a baby that survived an abortion. That is called infanticide. Barack supports that. Sorry you don't like it.

as opposed to the current administration?

Where did I make a comparison to the current administration? I didn't. His health care plan alone is going to cost BILLIONS. His idea that health care is even a right is flawed and unconstitutional. He keeps adding all of these "we're going to do this for the people" type of entitlements to his plan and has yet to find a way to pay for any of it. $1.5 trillion is another 50% on top of the current budget. 50%! You're okay with that?

prove it.

I'll have to come back to these prove-it things as I can't remember what you're asking me to prove.

He supports limited expanded drilling, but wants the oil companies to drill where they already have permission to do so first.

So he flops and it's okay with you. He finally succumb to the pressure of the American people AFTER he said that prices should be higher but not have risen as fast as they did. We have more fucking oil than the Mid-East and your party won't let us get it. How stupid is that?

Anti 1st? Prove it. Anti 2nd? Yeah, he’s for gun control, which is the weakest plank of the Dem party platform. But it doesn’t make him any more scary than any other Dem.

He/His campaign is currently threatening lawsuits against a private person who sponsored an ad showing Obama's link to Bill Aires (sp). All Obama has to do is dismiss the links, which he refuses to do (just like producing his authentic birth certificate). Instead he's trying to silence someone violating freedom of speech/press. He also doens't "tolerate" any comments about his character, wife's anti-American remarks, his links to his church, his capabilities, etc.

[quote] just like Lincoln, Wilson, and FDR? How Good Are Experienced Presidents?

And of those above, how many did a GOOD job of dealing with foreign affairs? I can't believe you'd even justify someone not having experience by saying "so what?" Tell you what - let me take you on a plane ride some time. I'm not a pilot, but using your logic, that shouldn't matter.

“good friends” he is not. Ayers is a terrorist, yet is also disgustingly part of the far left political powers in Chicago. Obama played politics with him. That is a valid criticism of politics in Chicago, and the fact that Obama is “just” a politician, but it doesn’t make Obama his friend. Obama once visited '60s radicals - Ben Smith - Politico.com

Good friends his is. This coming to light and a journalist (whose name I can't remember but will dig up later) has written a very long piece about the actual relationsihp. But let's assume you're right, even for a moment. You support Obama "playing politics" with a TERRORIST inside the US... You actually SUPPORT IT!?!?!? You have no issues with it whatsoever? If it were McCain, would you have an issue with it? I mean, shit, people have issues with fantasized connections between Bush and him giving big-oil money, so I would assume a connection between a presidential candidate (who has spent a lot of time with Ayers and launched his political career at his house) would also raise an eyebrow...

You prefer Bush’s mangling of the english language, I suppose. And why would this be “scary” anyway?

I never mentioned Bush. You're trying to make comparisons that are irrelevant. Bush is leaving office - he's history. You're stating that because one president did something that we should be okay with electing another president who does the same/worse??? Hell, Obama is the king of "ummmm"!!! Does that mean that you're okay with another intern scandal - I mean, heck, Billy did it!

Yes he does Barack Obama on the Issues

LOLOLOL. Dude. If he's so strong on these issues, why does he flop like Kerry and dodge questions when asked at the Rick Warren interview?

actually, he has, but you aren’t listening.

You're hearing something that isn't there. It's called Marketing. Something Obama is VERY good at.

Obama’s plan cuts taxes more than McCain’s

“If enacted, the Obama and McCain tax plans would have radically different effects on the distribution of tax burdens in the United States. The Obama tax plan would make the tax system significantly more progressive by providing large tax breaks to those at the bottom of the income scale and raising taxes significantly on upper-income earners. The McCain tax plan would make the tax system more regressive, even compared with a system in which the 2001–06 tax cuts are made permanent. It would do so by providing relatively little tax relief to those at the bottom of the income scale while providing huge tax cuts to households at the very top of the income distribution.”

See the chart here: TaxProf Blog: Comparison of the McCain and Obama Tax Plans (the author does note later in his article that he doesn’t see how either candidate will pay for their plans)

Fail. No such thing as a regressive tax in this country. Top 10% pay, what, roughly 90% of the taxes? Do you get paid by a rich person or a poor person? What happens when your boss/company owner can no longer afford to expand because the taxes are out of control. Oh - you know that most of those "rich" are S-Corps and Sole Proprietorship who are already paying more than their share of taxes, right? Bush gave tax cuts to everyone - EVERYONE - rolling them back on "the rich" will kill the economy. That's proven over and over - when taxes are lower, more investment happens and the economy grows... which results in more "revenue" for the federal government. Economists have known this for years, but our idiots in DC refuse to listen.

that's what I think is funny about this entire thing. Obama/McCain/Barr - none of them are smart enough to have a plan for everything. I care about who's going to get appointed to the 2-3 SCOTUS positions and who is going to protect our borders, shrink government, get gov't out of our schools, businesses and lives. Entitlements don't do that, and we're already spending about $2 TRILLION annually on entitlements.

I NEVER said I was a McCain supporter. But fawk, compared to Obama, McCain at least has experience! A Freshman Senator with an anti-American Pastor and friends with Terrorist ties who also supports extreme liberalism/socialism and infanticide is not a leader... that's scary.

So if you like the guy, great. Go vote for him. But don't make excuses for him, especially made out of emotion.

[bkg]

Originally Posted by Cruisin'Carolina

With all due respect, could you elaborate on which points he brought up that are "stupid" and back up your position with something a little more factual as opposed to offensive?

I doubt that will happen. But I'm okay with it. When the discussion goes to name calling that quickly, it's typically because the person calling names has no leg to stand on.

[whodat]

holy carp!

[koop]

Originally Posted by bkg

Proof, please.

Well this will be a cmplete waste of time since you are obviously swimming in the kool aid but here goes.

Originally Posted by bkg

Ya know, I've never worked for a poor person. Rich people, surprisingly, pay me. The top 10% pay a VAST MAJORITY OF THE TAXES IN THIS COUNTRY! I friggen pay just over 50%... and I'm not rich. BTW - Might want to look up the definition of rich.

The top 10% also own the vast majority of the wealth in this country. " The top 10% of families, as measured by net wealth, own 65% of assets, and the top 50% own a stunning 95% of assets. That means the gains from rising wealth have effectively left out half the population." BW Online | April 19, 2004 | Where Wealth Lives

You pay over 50%? How measured? The top tax rate for fed income taxes is 38% if you make over 357k or above. The tax rate up to 168k is only 28%. That's before deductions.

Rich is defined as income of under 5 million a year. McCain told me so.

Originally Posted by bkg

Don't even get me started on what Obama confuses.... Marxism and freedom are not the same.

Show me a quote where Obama said Marxism and freedom are the same.

Originally Posted by bkg

Proof that you can read his mind on what he wants. Thank you

So your mind reading is better?

Originally Posted by bkg

And owned up to all of them.

Of course he owned up to them all. They're all on tape.
YouTube - McCain's flip flop express

Originally Posted by bkg

Are you serious?

Originally Posted by bkg

Marxist.

the political, economic, and social principles and policies advocated by Marx; especially : a theory and practice of socialism including the labor theory of value, dialectical materialism, the class struggle, and dictatorship of the proletariat until the establishment of a classless society

So could you please tell me Obama's labor theory of value, dialectical materialism, the class struggle, and dictatorship of the proletariat until the establishment of a classless society? Or do you just like throwing around words you don't understand.

Originally Posted by bkg

Supports infanticide.

we could go around all day about whether fetuses are "infants" but the commonly understood term is that infants are young children already born. But yup, he is pro choice

Originally Posted by bkg

Wants to steal money from private and publicly held companies

really? Which ones?

Originally Posted by bkg

has already planned $1.5 trillion in new spending that he can't support

Proof please.

Originally Posted by bkg

Thinks gas is too cheap

again with the mind reading. YouTube - Barack Obama on Gas Prices, in Indianapolis
Barack Obama | New Energy for America

Originally Posted by bkg

Doesn't support drilling

We use 25% of the worlds oil reserves. We have 3% of the worlds oil reserves. Can't drill out of the problem. But, he has said that he would support offshore drilling if it was part of a comprehensive energy package.

Originally Posted by bkg

Anti 1st and 2nd amendment

Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?
A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?

A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets.

Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?
A: I don't think that we can get that done. But what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You've got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you've got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.

I have no idea what part of the first amendment you are refering to. Does he want to abolish freedom of speech, religion, assembly or petion

Originally Posted by bkg

No foreign policy experience - no experience, period

No experience? He has 11 years of legislative experience.

Originally Posted by bkg

Good friends with known terrorist

Really? Why hasn't someone arrested and convicted this terrorist?

Originally Posted by bkg

Uses the race card daily

how did he use the race card on 8/27?

Originally Posted by bkg

Can't speak w/o a prompter

Come on, that's just a stupid thing to say.

Originally Posted by bkg

Hardly has a position on most important issues

Like what? Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Issues

Originally Posted by bkg

Hasn't defined "change"

see above

Originally Posted by bkg

Will tax the hell out of us - did I mention I already pay about 50%???

see above

Originally Posted by bkg

Marxist, Socialist and nearly communist

pick one economic system you don't understand and run with it.

Originally Posted by bkg

Tax and Spend

that's what government does

Originally Posted by bkg

No experience

see above, you may not like his experience or think he has enough, but 11 years of legislative experience is not "no experience"

Really dude, read a little bit. Don't just regurgitate the little catch phrases you hear from Rush and Hannity. It's a sign of ignorance.

Oh, the flag?

[Creeker]

Originally Posted by bkg

I doubt that will happen. But I'm okay with it. When the discussion goes to name calling that quickly, it's typically because the person calling names has no leg to stand on.

I pointed out facts. You insist on calling names. When you pull out the "marxist" card in every argument, it's weak and lazy. And I know what a fascist government looks like. My use of the term was hyperbole. Look that up too.

Many of your other comments are Sean Hannity talking points, not facts. If you want to believe distortions and outright lies, I can't stop you, but at least have the integrity to either post a CREDIBLE source or admit that they are no better than distortions.

I still don't see why Obama "scares" you, unless every Dem does. And speaking of marketing, what do you think the right wing is doing? They would love to hear that you think Obama is scary. It fits right into their marketing plan.

[koop]

Originally Posted by bkg

Uh.. He was key in promoting and signing a bill in Illinois that protected Drs. from being charged with murder should they kill a baby that survived an abortion. That is called infanticide. Barack supports that. Sorry you don't like it.

The bill was called the "Born Alive Infant Protection Act" and he opposed, not supported it. He wasn't "key". He voted against it in committee and voted present on it in the full vote. Go read the bill. Get your facts right before you try to pretend you have a clue.

[78-FJ40]

So who has changed whos mind regarding who they are going to vote for?

[John Smith]

Originally Posted by 78-FJ40

So who has changed whos mind regarding who they are going to vote for?

shhh, bkg should be back any minute so they can continue the quote fest for another page and change none of their opinions only to continue in the next political thread. It is kind of like watching a dog chase his tail.

[calico kid]

Originally Posted by lunyou

Wow, McCain is winning at a 2:1 ratio? On this board?

Surprising thats all.

lunyou

The lungyou party is kicking ass

[bkg]

Originally Posted by John Smith

shhh, bkg should be back any minute so they can continue the quote fest for another page and change none of their opinions only to continue in the next political thread. It is kind of like watching a dog chase his tail.

I'm done after this. Discussions are fun, though.

Well this will be a cmplete waste of time since you are obviously swimming in the kool aid but here goes.

No Kool-Aide. I’m not a McCain supporter.

The top 10% also own the vast majority of the wealth in this country. " The top 10% of families, as measured by net wealth, own 65% of assets, and the top 50% own a stunning 95% of assets. That means the gains from rising wealth have effectively left out half the population." BW Online | April 19, 2004 | Where Wealth Lives

And what is your point? Leaving out ½ the population, ergo trying to equalize things, is not a capitalist mantra, it’s socialist (transfer of wealth by overtaxing rich and under-taxing or not taxing others, or even giving tax credits), or arguably, even Marxist (bringing class to the forefront, making it a huge issue. Capitalism as exploitation of poor workers/consumers – big oil, big tobacco, big pharma, but insurance – all taking advantage of workers/consumers… etc).

You pay over 50%? How measured? The top tax rate for fed income taxes is 38% if you make over 357k or above. The tax rate up to 168k is only 28%. That's before deductions.

1 – about ¼ of my income is bonus. That’s taxed at ~48%, I think.
2 – 28% fed income
3 - ~8% state income
4 – property taxes
5 – 6.75-11% sales tax.
6 - $.48+ gallon/fuel
All told, it hovers around 50%

Rich is defined as income of under 5 million a year. McCain told me so.

UNDER 5 million a year? Look at the WSJ article about who is considered rich and what they are paying. Top 1% pays 40% of all income taxes. Top 10% (those making over 108K/year) pay 71% of total taxes. Top 50% pay 97% of all taxes. So how does Obama define rich? Cause I have not heard him say it’s 5 million/year or more. The only number I’ve ever heard him mention is $75K/year for middle class families. Here’s the thing. If the top 10% are paying 71% of all of the taxes, exactly where is Obama going to cut? The bottom 50% only pay 3%, so he’s not really going to be able to cut taxes there, unless they are just going to stop paying taxes all together?

Show me a quote where Obama said Marxism and freedom are the same.

Didn’t say he did. I’m stating that Marxism and Freedom are not the same. The President’s job is to defend the Constitution – to defend freedom. His stated positions of making things “fair,” of doing (arguably) more wealth transfer, of taking money from oil companies (tax increases on the highest taxed industry) and giving to people (Obama Hood: Taxing Big Oil to Give Americans Another Stimulus Check : Red, Green, and Blue -< there are more links, just search “obama $1000 stimulus check”) … these are just a couple of items that do not align with defending freedom. I would argue that any support of additional governmental control of my life, your life or anyone’s life is anti-freedom.

So your mind reading is better?

Didn’t claim that it was. I just asked someone to support the claim.

Of course he owned up to them all. They're all on tape.
YouTube - McCain's flip flop express

Agreed. Obama hasn’t owned up to his, from what I’ve seen/heard/read. And that people defend his flip-flops as concessions/education/reaching across the isle type of activities, well, I find disingenuous.

the political, economic, and social principles and policies advocated by Marx; especially : a theory and practice of socialism including the labor theory of value, dialectical materialism, the class struggle, and dictatorship of the proletariat until the establishment of a classless society

So could you please tell me Obama's labor theory of value, dialectical materialism, the class struggle, and dictatorship of the proletariat until the establishment of a classless society? Or do you just like throwing around words you don't understand.

Okay, I’ll concede on some of this. However, as I stated above, his positions on fairness (economic), CEO pay, Oil profits (which pail in comparison to gov’t profits on oil), desire to increase wealth redistribution all fall in line with some of the tenants of Marxism. For example, the rich getting richer item that you pointed out is often argued as exploitation, unfair, etc. Is it not a Marxist principle to attempt to level the playing field? Is not that also playing into the hands of the classical “class struggle” that Obama has been discussing as of late and that Biden echoed in his speech talking about energy prices and sitting down at the dinner table? Does he not seem to indicate that the class struggle is getting worse and needs to be replaced? Or does he disagree with the “it takes a village” principles? Perhaps he’s just extremely socialist?

we could go around all day about whether fetuses are "infants" but the commonly understood term is that infants are young children already born. But yup, he is pro choice

I never stated anything about abortions or pro-choice/pro-life. He supports allowing Dr.s to end the life of a BABY that survives an abortion.
Obama's 10 reasons for supporting infanticide
FactCheck.org: Obama and 'Infanticide'

there, of course, are others. What is at debate here is the definition of “born alive.” If a baby is out of the mother’s womb, has vital signs and could survive (even if potentially on life support, as many premature babies are, which we still consider babies), it would be considered born alive. Barack, as I’ve read, voted against protecting this baby by giving it (giving sound wrong to me, but) it’s human rights.

You're right - I was wrong - about the bill. It was pro-born alive and he didn't support it... He headed the committee, though, correct? So that does make him key.

really? Which ones?

Big oil. As mentioned earlier, his $1000 economic stimulus check will be paid for by stealing (some people call it just another tax) money from oil companies. That money comes out of your and my pockets because the prices will skyrocket as oil companies try to maintain profit margins. These oil companies already pay extraordinary amounts of money in taxes, but the gov’t never mentions that. No, I don’t work for oil. Yes, I do have some investments in energy, including green.

Proof please.

Proof of what –the ~$1.5 trillion in new spending or that he can’t pay for it????
Jack Kemp & Peter Ferrara on Election & Economy on National Review Online
Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

There are others, but these came up quick. Over ½ of that is his healthcare plan, at $800 Billion, I think.

again with the mind reading. YouTube - Barack Obama on Gas Prices, in Indianapolis
Barack Obama | New Energy for America

Flip-flop: Does Obama Mind High Gas Prices? FOX Embeds FOXNews.com Read paragraph 1 where he states he would have preferred a gradual rise.

We use 25% of the worlds oil reserves. We have 3% of the worlds oil reserves. Can't drill out of the problem. But, he has said that he would support offshore drilling if it was part of a comprehensive energy package.

It’s estimated that we have 120 BILLION barrels in known, recoverable reserves right now. The 25% number isn’t exactly fair – it doesn’t take into account what is produced. How much of the worlds food is produced in the US? That takes oil.

Obama was against drilling for a long time (as TOO MANY on both sides were/are) and conceding, as everyone should have years ago, to off-shore recently. But notice your own statement “IF it was PART of a.” We need oil NOW to stop inflation. Yes, we need a long term energy plan. But airing up your tires isn’t going to do it. :laughing: Obama claims that will remove the need for the 86+ Billion barrels known to be recoverable on the OCS… well, Obama is confused on that one. Less than 50% of a barrel of crude goes to GAS (about 55% total if you include diesel and jet fuel). Doing the math at current consumption, it would take 1600 years to save 86 billion barrels by airing up tires. Not that we shouldn’t also do that, but he is confused on the overall need. But most politicians are because they have too much money, too little sense and very little (as was stated earlier) connection to the “real world.”

Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?

<snip>

I have no idea what part of the first amendment you are refering to. Does he want to abolish freedom of speech, religion, assembly or petion

Well, you addressed amendment 2.
Currently, his campaign is attempting to sue:
Here's the Ad Obama is suing to keep you from watching! - Wellston Forum
Michelle Malkin Obama threatens TV stations airing Ayers ad
This lawsuit, and his blatant attempts to stop anyone who questions his patriotism, his wife’s comments, his history, his associations, is in my opinion, an attempt to snub freedom of speech/press.

No experience? He has 11 years of legislative experience.

No foreign policy experience. 1 year fed.

[quote] Really? Why hasn't someone arrested and convicted this terrorist?[/quote

Ayers was arrested and let go on a technicality.

how did he use the race card on 8/27?

Okay, I should have said “OFTEN.” Remember the "I may not look like the other presidents on the dollar bill" speech?

Come on, that's just a stupid thing to say.

No it’s not. He’s the king of “ummmm” when he doesn’t have a prompter in front of him. He doesn’t articulate well, he appears to get his thoughts confused, he LOOKS like he’s searching for something to say. He's PHENOMINAL when prepared... but he struggles "off the cuff."

Like what? Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Issues

No offense, but that’s not exactly a credible source… Nor would McCain’s positions from his page. And when you change your mind mid-stream as often as Barack seems to, it’s hard to hold him down to the positions listed on his page.

see above

How does that define “change?”

see above

I think I already addressed the tax issue. By raising Cap. Gains, which is part of his plan, the economy will slow. When that happens, inflation happens. Inflation is a tax on all of us. By taxing “the rich,” as addressed above, there will be less investment by S-Corps, Sole Proprietorship and big companies, which equals fewer jobs and lower pay, which is also a TAX on the population. Not to mention, there will likely be a run on the market the day/week before the new cap gains tax goes into place. We’ll hit a recession, borderline depression if that happens.

Also, growth of the government, with some of the new programs he wants (health care, CTO, etc) will require new revenue… where’s he going to get it?

that's what government does

You’re defending his tax and spend model with that statement? Tax and spend is technically not the governments real job. Almost 2/3 of our fed budget is entitlements and wealth redistribution. HOLY HELL! We should have no debt, (and I feel) we should have no entitlements… we’d be much closer to the Constitutional mandates for the Feds.

see above, you may not like his experience or think he has enough, but 11 years of legislative experience is not "no experience"

No foreign policy experience and 1 full year federal experience. That’s pretty damned close to “no experience" at this level, don’t ya think?

Really dude, read a little bit. Don't just regurgitate the little catch phrases you hear from Rush and Hannity. It's a sign of ignorance.

Well, that’s an opinion. But as with all of these discussions, I could easily tell you to stop drinking the Kool Aide as well. I’m not an Obama fan – he lacks substance. I’m not a McCain fan – he’s essentially a Liberal…

Oh, the flag?

Once again you justify Obama’s actions by the idiocy of others. BTW – an upside down flag is the international symbol of distress.

Anyway. I added my thoughts, comments. This is clearly a board with a lot of Obama fans. Nothing wrong with that. I’d really like to see less flash and more substance, but I don’t’ think that’s what this country wants anymore. I am afraid of FDR’s New Deal becoming reality. I am afraid of socialism. I am afraid of our rights being stripped little by little – by BOTH parties. I desperately want to see every single (with the exception of 1, Michelle Bachman) incumbent removed from office this year.