$$ of Airline Flights

[D'Animal]

WTF is up with the Airlines?

I can buy a ticket from Central California to Fiji cheaper than I can buy a ticket from Central CA to Iowa.


This is fricken crazy.

[Weedhopper]

It IS crazy. There is no rhyme or reason or pattern that I can figure out. I took a Skybus flight from CT to OH for $55. ROUND TRIP, plus airport fees. Tried it again and they went bankrupt 2 hrs. before my flight.

Next week I am doing Delta out and Southwest back. Cheaper and the times are better.

It IS a demand thing, I know that, but your example is what me.

[DSRTRDR]

I got a one-way flight from Linz (Austria) to Cologne (Germany) for 1 Euro (=$1.50); even with fees, it only came to 29 Euro = 40 bucks

[shaking head] - yes, there is no rhyme or reason

often, the price is also designed to stimulate demand for travel



Dan, you should go to Fiji - who wants to wade in flooded Iowa right now (have you tried neighboring states?)

[D'Animal]

Originally Posted by DSRTRDR

Dan, you should go to Fiji - who wants to wade in flooded Iowa right now (have you tried neighboring states?)

I've been in Guam for a week Hawaii for 5 weeks and get to come home next weekend.

Trip to Iowa is for my class reunion. I was going to drive my Tow rig with my FJ 45 EC and wheel it but I have meetings that start on the 7th.

[DanS HJ-45]

Airline ticket prices have very, very little to do with operating costs, demand, the cost of fuel or anything else that makes sense. They have MUCH more to do with someone's ego and "market share" than anything else.

This is exactly why the airlines in the US are struggling. Let's face it: it is very, very expensive to operate an airplane safely. It is very, very expensive to go that fast (you've got to overcome a LOT of drag). These are very, very expensive machines to purchase and operate. You can't just go to the local high school and hire all the employees you need to operate these machines--and that means that employees will cost money.

And yet..... current ticket prices simply do not reflect these simple economic truths. We've got a bunch of airline executives who have grabbed onto the notion that market share is more important than doing something profitably.

Are both flights (to IA and Fiji) on the same carrier? What you probably see is somebody worried about losing market share in the overseas market, hence the drive for cheap prices there.

FWIW--my rule of thumb (and pilot and mechanic) is that it *should* cost around $500-600 to fly from CA to IA. And that's for the bottom of the barrel restricted fare. Anything else means that the airline is cutting corners somewhere. The single exception (so far) to that is Southwest, who have remained profitable through efficiency in operation, and some fuel hedges.

Don't look at SkyBus as a good example, ever. It was a dumb idea to begin with, and it obviously didn't work out so well for them or their passengers. The fact of the matter is that the simple infrastructure to safely operate an airline costs too much money for that to work out (at least in the US, other countries have government subsidized infrastructure).

I'm personally hoping that the US airlines wake up some day and realize that if you can't make money selling hot dogs, then you've got to stop selling hot dogs. They've already squeezed all they can from the labor side of the house (and I'd argue they've squeezed FAR too much), and these high fuel prices are eating their lunches because they continue to do business as usual. An airline may like to carry a bunch of lower fare vacationers, but if those people are only willing to pay a few pennies, then it's stupid to tick off the passengers who are willing to pay higher fares to attract a few more vacationers. But that's exactly what's happening.

I personally don't see anything good happening in the US airline market anytime soon. Which sucks, because my job depends on it (in fact, I've already been displaced by a base closure this year, and I'm taking voluntary leave to help my company avoid furloughs next month).

Dan

[D'Animal]

I used to fly from Fresno to denver and them to Cedar Rapids. Round trip was $280.00. Now that same flight is $2,200. If I go through Las Vegas it drops to $1,100.

If I book through United directly I can get it down to $540.00. The flight goes from Fresno to Los Angeles to Las Vegas to Chicago to Cedar Rapids. The return is the same route. I would think that a direct flight is cheaper but if I bounce through 5 airports and spend 16 hours traveling it is cheaper. WTF? People have to handle my luggage 5 times so i would think that the price would be more.

[IronYuppy]

Originally Posted by D'Animal

...

I can buy a ticket from Central California to Fiji cheaper than I can buy a ticket from Central CA to Iowa.

...

Floatplane fares are always more expensive.










What, too soon?

[DSRTRDR]

Originally Posted by D'Animal

Trip to Iowa is for my class reunion.

oh, those are fun (had my 30th high school graduation reunion last summer)

again, check other airports for departure and arrival.....

a lot of luggage for a reunion weekend ? carry-on baby (I sure am not paying $15 or $25 for checking luggage )

[3_puppies]

looking at going from Helena to Newark NJ 1st week of November, prices were $720 each roundtrip, checked last weekend they were $370 each, I booked'em right then. look again this weekend and they went down another $20.

doesn't make sence.

[IronYuppy]

Originally Posted by RavenTai

You cheap bastards are not paying enough, I am tired of it and I am leaving the undustry November first.

Thank goodness. Maybe thinning out the ranks of mechanics, airframe techs, airport firefighters and other superfluous personnel will bring the price down at the consumer end. Free ride's over, slackers.

[scottm]

Originally Posted by IronYuppy

Thank goodness. Maybe thinning out the ranks of mechanics, airframe techs, airport firefighters and other superfluous personnel will bring the price down at the consumer end. Free ride's over, slackers.

Too many airline employees sign up for low pay because they think it'll be glamorous somehow. The airlines promote that notion and have had a free ride to cheap labor for a long time. If employees start wising up and walk, that won't be a positive on their balance sheets. If they had to pay what these employees are really worth to attract workers, they'd be out of business quickly.

[IronYuppy]

Originally Posted by scottm

Too many airline employees sign up for low pay because they think it'll be glamorous somehow. The airlines promote that notion and have had a free ride to cheap labor for a long time. If employees start wising up and walk, that won't be a positive on their balance sheets. If they had to pay what these employees are really worth to attract workers, they'd be out of business quickly.

That's funny; television and radio are the same way.

[D'Animal]

I'm all for paying for qualified help. But laying off ticket agents and doubling and tripling the price is BS.

[DanS HJ-45]

Dan's got it right here.

A lot of the service problems you see are exactly the result of staffing cutbacks. I'll have you know that I've waited for 35 minutes for someone to be able to come move a jetway and connect it to our airplane before--and that was with a medical emergency onboard and paramedics waiting. All because *someone* decided that having one jetway driver/gate agent for each gate was a good idea.

It's also exactly what *really* caused the JetBlue debacle in Boston a few years ago. Twenty years ago there were probably 10 deice trucks to deal with 30 airplane (I'm making that up). Today it's 4 or 5. So while things CAN run smoothly, it really doesn't take much to screw it all up.

Heck, I'd probably put up with my level of pay (and it's substandard, no doubt about it) if the ground services were properly staffed, trained, retained and empowered to make it a smooth operation. It's a lot of stress on the shoulders of the flight crews to have to track down baggage carts, fuel trucks, mechanics, etc...

The basic problem on the economic side really is that they've made so many cuts on the airline side, at the same time paying some EXORBITANT salaries and bonuses to the morons in charge. Frankly, with what I'm paid (and what I know our management makes) people are lucky I show up to work with pants on, let alone my years of experience and training.

I personally think that average ticket prices need to increase though, even though there are some localized ticket prices that are WAY too high (your CA to IA example would be one).

Dan

[DSRTRDR]

most airlines claim that they will honor a lower price later in the game - I haven't tried it yet

for international travel, I have had good luck on prices with Orbitz

[D'Animal]

Originally Posted by DSRTRDR

I have had good luck on prices with Orbitz

That is where I started my search.

[D'Animal]

Did Mention that I flew round trip to Hawaii for $385 on United out of LAX?


Yes it was non-stop.

[DSRTRDR]

Originally Posted by D'Animal

Did Mention that I flew round trip to Hawaii for $385 on United out of LAX?

Yes it was non-stop.

yeah, but on those seats that recline less than an inch

BTDT

[DSRTRDR]

I like Kayak.com for searching, too

just sayin'

[Mr. Toad]

Originally Posted by DanS HJ-45

. . .

They've already squeezed all they can from the labor side of the house (and I'd argue they've squeezed FAR too much)
. . .

No way. I know this won't be popular with persons in the industry on this board, but other than collective bargaining extortion there's no reason for pilots to make what they make (even after the legacy carriers' abusive labor-busting bankruptcies).

[Mr. Toad]

And don't even get me started on executive pay. WTF have those jokers done to earn a dime? Where, exactly, is their pay coming from if the companies aren't making money?

[IronYuppy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Toad

No way. I know this won't be popular with persons in the industry on this board, but other than collective bargaining extortion there's no reason for pilots to make what they make (even after the legacy carriers' abusive labor-busting bankruptcies).

I don't know about that. Considering the immense responsibility flight crew (and ground techs) shoulder, as a passenger and as a person who lives beneath where planes fly, I want them to be well paid and comfortable, so they're not distracted by petty stuff like how to afford their kids' braces, how far away retirement is, etc. I want them to be the happiest people in the world.

[NorCalDoug]

Originally Posted by D'Animal

I used to fly from Fresno to denver and them to Cedar Rapids. Round trip was $280.00. Now that same flight is $2,200. If I go through Las Vegas it drops to $1,100.

If I book through United directly I can get it down to $540.00. The flight goes from Fresno to Los Angeles to Las Vegas to Chicago to Cedar Rapids. The return is the same route. I would think that a direct flight is cheaper but if I bounce through 5 airports and spend 16 hours traveling it is cheaper. WTF? People have to handle my luggage 5 times so i would think that the price would be more.

makes no sense at all.
I flew Jet Blue from Sacramento (changed planes in Long Beach) to Dulles (Washington DC) and back (via JFK in NY) last month and the round trip ticket was under $800.
Southwest would've charged about $150 more.
United, American, and Delta all wanted more than twice the Jet Blue price (none of the flights was direct).

Unless I need to get to somewhere Jet Blue or Southwest doesn't go...I don't see much of a reason to fly any other airline.







Dan - have you checked cheaptickets.com?
I'm not sure when you need to be there, but I just priced out tix from fresno to cedar city for $409.
Just to have dates for the fare, I entered your departure for 6/29 and your return for 7/5

[scottm]

I'm not sure what you think airline pilots make, but it's not impressive anymore. And the career sucks in so many ways, it isn't worth what they used to make a decade ago when it paid well. I've actively steered my kids away from the profession.

[scottm]

Back on my soap