2009 Prius - 94 MPG?

[Brian in Oregon]

2009 Prius May Reach 94 MPG - U.S. News Rankings and Reviews

2009 Prius May Reach 94 MPG

Posted: Apr. 29, 2008 10:04 a.m.

Auto Observer reports that the next generation of Toyota's wildly successful Prius hybrid "is coming soon and will launch at the Detroit auto show in January 2009." The car will be "a touch bigger so offering more space. It will come with stronger 1.8-liter hybrid performance yet at the same time boast even better economy and class leading emissions, if early word is correct." The Prius will feature "a bigger 1797 cc four cylinder gas engine to cope with the bigger body and counter criticism in some quarters of the weedy performance of the current 1.5," boosting the total output of the car to 160 horsepower (up from the current 110). Sources say Toyota rates the new configuration for 94 mpg.

CNET is anxious to see it, noting that "The last update was in 2004, so this new version is definitely due. There's also talk of another model in the Prius line, and a Lexus equivalent featuring an even larger engine."

The Truth About Cars is disappointed, commenting, "Imagine how much more it could be up if they weren't trying to squeeze another 50 horses out of the car, or adding 4 inches to the body."

As we reported in February, the shape of the 2009 Prius is expected to resemble that of Toyota's Hybrid X concept, pictured above.

Research the best hybrid cars available now with U.S. News' car rankings and reviews.

[firetruck41]

Nah... ~55mpg, still ain't bad!

Edmunds Auto Observer

Quite the reverse, in fact. While the current Prius posts a class-leading 35.5 km/l in Japan's 10.15-mode fuel cycle (equal to 83.5 mpg in the US), Toyota's reported target with the Mk 3 Prius is a stellar 40 km/l (94 mpg) in the same cycle.

Hold the champagne, however. Japan's 10.15 mode is now an old system, far from the modern global standard and especially kind to hybrids in the way it operates (letting them run for an extended period on electric power, which helps deliver wondrous fuel mileage numbers).

Different markets around the world have their own take on exactly how green and frugal the Prius actually is. America, for instance, rates the 2008 Prius at a far more real world-like 48 mpg/45 mpg/46 mpg for city/highway/combined.

Japan's 10.15 mode, nevertheless, while not perfect, does give an idea of the kind of efficiency improvements we can expect with the next Prius (ie some 10 per cent-plus) and suggests, perhaps, that America's Combined rating for the 2010 Prius will lift up to the 50-55 mpg mark.

[Happy Trails]

Impresssive! thanks for the link.

[D'Animal]

So will it cost around $70k?

[firetruck41]

Originally Posted by D'Animal

So will it cost around $70k?

$70k? I expect it will cost a few hundred dollars more than the current model Prius.

[78-FJ40]

Impressive, but until someone makes a hybrid that:

can carry two dog crates and 3-4 people
allows putting a child in a carseat without having to be a contortionist
can pull a heavy trailer
has the cargo room of a mid-sized SUV
has 4wd or all-wheel drive
can carry two bikes and a bike trailer
etc.

then, unfortunately, it's not a feasible option for my wife and I or for many other people that have similar needs. Hopefully, more hybrid vehicle options will be available in the future.

[Happy Trails]

Right you are. I'd jump on a diesel hybrid 4Runner that could get 30+MPG. Toyota should consider it.

[Lka1988]

Originally Posted by 78-FJ40

can carry two dog crates and 3-4 people
allows putting a child in a carseat without having to be a contortionist
can pull a heavy trailer
has the cargo room of a mid-sized SUV
has 4wd or all-wheel drive
can carry two bikes and a bike trailer
etc.

2008 Chevy Tahoe Hybrid

[re_guderian]

I think America in general has a rude awakening ahead as to what "needs" actually are regarding transportation...

[smkymntn]

Originally Posted by re_guderian

I think America in general has a rude awakening ahead as to what "needs" actually are regarding transportation...

X2 -- Have you looked to see how many suvs are for sale now? When I was looking for my 60 I could hardly find any that were not trashed- now there are hundreds of nice rigs all over the country....it is going to get worse, much worse

[Trollhole]

Once someone comes out with a plug in Hybrid I will be selling a couple cruisers. Gas prices are killing me.

[smkymntn]

Where geography demands a 4x4 (see my sig) I dont see a hybrid getting up my driveway when it snows/ices over......unless they make a 4x4 hybrid

[re_guderian]

Originally Posted by smkymntn

Where geography demands a 4x4 (see my sig) I dont see a hybrid getting up my driveway when it snows/ices over......unless they make a 4x4 hybrid

There are several already out there. Lexus has been making one for a few years, as has the Toyota with the Highlander. There's also the Tahoe in the above post. If yours is truly a "need" then get ready to pay for the gas to support it. In an era of $4-$5/gal gas, operating a 4x4 will be a luxury for most.

hijack -> I wonder if a new business model for autos, similar to cell phones, will take off in the next few years. Operating costs now exceed purchase price for cars, so why not a subscription/lease that includes a set amount of fuel? Pay me $650/mo and you get a Prius + 50 gallons of gas each month...

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by re_guderian

I think America in general has a rude awakening ahead as to what "needs" actually are regarding transportation...

I agree.

['74 UA FJ]

Originally Posted by 78-FJ40

Impressive, but until someone makes a hybrid that:

can carry two dog crates and 3-4 people
allows putting a child in a carseat without having to be a contortionist
can pull a heavy trailer
has the cargo room of a mid-sized SUV
has 4wd or all-wheel drive
can carry two bikes and a bike trailer
etc.

then, unfortunately, it's not a feasible option for my wife and I or for many other people that have similar needs. Hopefully, more hybrid vehicle options will be available in the future.

Hell, my 80 series will barely fit 1 dog crate.

[John Smith]

Originally Posted by smkymntn

X2 -- Have you looked to see how many suvs are for sale now? When I was looking for my 60 I could hardly find any that were not trashed- now there are hundreds of nice rigs all over the country....it is going to get worse, much worse

I have been, and am looking forward to getting a lot more tow rig than I thought I could afford. I agree with others that people are going to realize they can get by with a much smaller car than they currently think they can.

[IdahoDoug]

I think hybrids are a questionable strategy due to the double power sources aboard a mobile object being inefficient and costly. You're basically hauling around two engines and a bunch of batteries as well. Perhaps a tiny diesel generator and strictly electric propulsion like a train locomotive will the the end game on hybrids.

So, the actual MPG is going to be more like 55 eh? Anyone see the recent informal competition where a European publication pitted a Prius against a larger, heavier BMW 5 series driven by a diesel? The diesel beat it out in a real world test across Europe on fuel economy.

Gonna be interesting, but it occurs to me that right now - this very period in time - is about the worst time to purchase a new automobile in the US. Fuel prices are skyrocketing and the manufacturers need time to get the products they're building in reaction into the dealerships. So a car bought now reflects old thinking versus the new paradigm of $5 fuel and in that future world today's new car will be worth crapola. Seems like the best thing to do cost wise would be keep what you've got extra long and then purchase when the new cars are all getting 50+mpg a few years from now. The cars coming to market now will have merely incremental (10% ish) better fuel economy where soon they'll be orders of magnitude (100% ish). Otherwise, as stated above you'll have a car that's more expensive to operate than it is to purchase - an excellent point BTW Rob.

DougM

[smkymntn]

Originally Posted by re_guderian

There are several already out there. Lexus has been making one for a few years, as has the Toyota with the Highlander. There's also the Tahoe in the above post. If yours is truly a "need" then get ready to pay for the gas to support it. In an era of $4-$5/gal gas, operating a 4x4 will be a luxury for most.

hijack -> I wonder if a new business model for autos, similar to cell phones, will take off in the next few years. Operating costs now exceed purchase price for cars, so why not a subscription/lease that includes a set amount of fuel? Pay me $650/mo and you get a Prius + 50 gallons of gas each month...

maybe its me but paying for a lexus that gets maybe 23mpg in mixed driving is not an option- I have always driven smaller suv's and trucks- I have a tacoma and 4runner now that both get around 18-20mpg and are extremely capable. My 60 however is not for gas mileage, but for recreation, akin to an RV as we plan to use it for camping, etc. I made this choice as gas prices already were on the rise. So in this case I made a conscious choice to buy a gas guzzling vehicle. Who I see the current prices hitting is the people who drive very large vehicles and have no way to justify it other than they wanted to "be above traffic"- now I dont mean to toot my own horn about how smart I am, but am just trying to show that if you have been realistic all this time, you have prepared for fluctuations in prices. If I could not afford my ish, I would get smaller ish- I just reread this and I think I am high- but I am at work......hmmmm

[Bogo]

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

I think hybrids are a questionable strategy due to the double power sources aboard a mobile object being inefficient and costly. You're basically hauling around two engines and a bunch of batteries as well. Perhaps a tiny diesel generator and strictly electric propulsion like a train locomotive will the the end game on hybrids.

So, the actual MPG is going to be more like 55 eh? Anyone see the recent informal competition where a European publication pitted a Prius against a larger, heavier BMW 5 series driven by a diesel? The diesel beat it out in a real world test across Europe on fuel economy.

Take a close breakdown as to the mileage on highway versus city driving. They had to go to 80% highway driving to win with the diesel. Note, US drivers average 60% city type driving.

As for going diesel/electric. The hybrid will get better mileage because it can turn the engine off when driving slow. Also a train engine gets up to speed and cruises at a relatively constant pace for long periods of time. You don't do that driving in a car. Much different uses.

[johnny4ever]

Originally Posted by re_guderian

I think America in general has a rude awakening ahead as to what "needs" actually are regarding transportation...

So you mean Canada, Mexico and the United States?

Pray tell, what are the "needs"?

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by Bogo

Take a close breakdown as to the mileage on highway versus city driving. They had to go to 80% highway driving to win with the diesel. Note, US drivers average 60% city type driving.

As for going diesel/electric. The hybrid will get better mileage because it can turn the engine off when driving slow. Also a train engine gets up to speed and cruises at a relatively constant pace for long periods of time. You don't do that driving in a car. Much different uses.

One of the benefits of a diesel electric set up is you dont need a gearbox,or certainly nothing as complex as what you have now.
Up and down the rev range is no problem,the hybrid cars have electric motors that do this.Most of those giant dump trucks are diesel electric with an electric motor on each wheel and no differential.
You could also have just 2 electric motors,one above each diff.

I think this technology would have enormous appeal

[Jetboy]

I vote we have universal gas. We tax everyone and have free gas. Makes about as much sense as the other entitlement programs.

On a serious note, as we see energy prices rise, so will other comodities. The constant flow of chinese imports will now get more expensive and there will be, at the margins of course, more incentive to produce domestic goods until we find a new equilibrium. Anyway I think people are in for a rude awakening as to thier housing, food, and entertainment "needs" as well as they are all tied to our high energy consumption.

I also would like to see a diesel generation/elec drive vehicle. Possibly a plug in version. Then again, I ride the bus and it's probably much more efficient per passenger mile.

[IdahoDoug]

Bogo,

If what you're saying about the diesel BMW/Prius driving contest was that it was rigged in favor of the BMW that won, perhaps you missed this quote from the article mentioning 100 more miles were added: "to give the Prius the advantage of running in urban conditions where its petrol-electric drivetrain comes into its own." Also, at the end of the contest the Prius had been out of gas for an hour or so and was running its batteries down with no self contained way to recharge. The BMW still had a third of its fuel tank left and could have been several countries further along while STILL getting better fuel economy.

To me, there is no question who one that contest....

DougM