The ultimate thread! (possible NSFW) (#28)

[srplus]

And as another point... The employer is an agent to collect taxes due to the Federal Government for its employees and is responsible for paying the matching taxes as required by law and regulations.

I will teakettlle taxes to the end of the earth. You are looking at the guy that got busted by the IRS for refusing to be its collection agent and hiring only subcontractors. I was told by an IRS Agent that my subcontractors were employees and I owed them over $175K in interest and penalties by the time they got done pounding the keys on the calculator.

Over seven years after the first subpoena we finally had the accounting and settlement and the case was only completely over after ten years.

What happened was that it cost me every dime I had ever earned, my business and a lot of personal trauma to prove that I was right. Oh, and they owed me $37.5k that I could deduct from my income taxes over the five years following the settlement. If I had lost the check would have been due then.

I did this because I do not like to be a collection agent for the government and be held liable for understanding all the BS that is in their codes.

In another post I will explain how Improvements to Real Property are taxed in the State of Florida as is required by law rather than the way the State will try to force you to pay it by strong arming... and that would be on the total sale (which would be more money to them but not what is required by law).

[InsanityIsBorn]

w00t.

[semlin]

Originally Posted by dieseldog

keep in mind--it's a SALES TAX, and not a BUYERS TAX. Sellers are not being "dragooned" into collecting taxes. It would make no sense at all to bifurcate the purchase funds from the sales tax funds. The funds are best held in one place--in the hands of the seller--who then submits them to the state authorities (this presumes a case of intrastate purchase). If, on the other hand, a buyer was required to keep track of and send off sales tax funds in the proper amounts to the state authorities on a plethora of purchases throughout the year, there would be chaos.

well its not a "seller's tax" either. It is a tax on a sale. There are two parties to a sale. there is no reason i know of why you can't put the primary obligation to pay the tax on the buyer.

it makes excellent sense to then require the seller to collect and remit the tax just as employers here must withhold and remit income tax of their employees. this way the government gets a whole army of unpaid tax collectors who are liable for the taxes if they don't collect them.

[sisukid1975]

Originally Posted by srplus

Fred: Since all of this compliance is 'Voluntary' and once they have become an agent to collect the sales tax for the state the point is moot. \

And I do not think Rivera has broken the story on FOX yet.

Sorry, still not convinced.

The article Jman posted was about a proposed law for signatory states to collect and share info from e-tailers in a unitary fashion, but I still have not found anything about Florida tactically making an end run around 14th amendment and case law.

Some companies do think in terms of things other than legal cost. Some do think in terms of principle and being perceived as a soft target. If they roll over to FL on this, what happens when FL tries to bully their way around Wisconsin v. JC Penney (trying to collect income tax on foreign companies that sell to in-state residents)? What happens when every other state tries to do the same?

I'd think there would have been at least one company that would have told FL to take a hike, and meant it. If that had happened, there would be record in form of news reports, court filings, lobbying activity... something.

Of course, a lot of the time it's the small guys that put up the hardest fight, since they have the most to lose... Florida should be well acquainted with that idea, after Gideon. So, W[ho]TF knows?

But, if FL is making an end run around case law without the benefit of a law like Jman's article talked about, it probably will only be a matter of time before someone takes them to task for it.

In this state, you can pay a flat rate on sales tax for stuff purchased online or through the mail. However, here, you can deduct that amount from your income tax. So last year, it was more beneficial for me to pay MORE sales tax than the take the minimum deduction. I just provided a list of the things I bought.

[gladly]

Originally Posted by FineWynsFJ40

Excuse me, I must've blundered into here by accident, can you tell me which way to *TECH*?

tech???



never heard of it

[semlin]

Originally Posted by Jman

It's a shakedown, plain and simple. I get that part. Wouldn't be the first time the State of Florida did something questionable.

But to be clear, sales tax is levied on the seller, not the buyer. Who pays to the state? The seller. It is up to the seller whether or not they want to collect it explicitly from the buyer. For example, some vendors with walk in customers--coffee shops, etc.--might list their sales prices, then charge the tax amount, so a $1.00 item costs $1.0X when you finally pay for it. Others list their prices, and just send a check for X% of sales to the state. One explicitly collects from customers, the other implicitly, but in each case, it is the SELLER that pays the money to the state.

But I get Florida's angle. Do they have Cubans in state government? They're pretty familiar with mob tactics, I've heard.

the fact the seller collects and remits the tax, and is liable for the full amount of the tax if they fail to do so, does not mean they actually pay it at law . the state just drafts a law that turns them into mandatory tax collectors.

[surfpig]

Originally Posted by FineWynsFJ40

Excuse me, I must've blundered into here by accident, can you tell me which way to *TAX-TECH*?

Originally Posted by gladly

tax-tech???



never heard of it

You've come to the right place, apparently...

[semlin]

Originally Posted by srplus

And as another point... The employer is an agent to collect taxes due to the Federal Government for its employees and is responsible for paying the matching taxes as required by law and regulations.

I will teakettlle taxes to the end of the earth. You are looking at the guy that got busted by the IRS for refusing to be its collection agent and hiring only subcontractors. I was told by an IRS Agent that my subcontractors were employees and I owed them over $175K in interest and penalties by the time they got done pounding the keys on the calculator.

Over seven years after the first subpoena we finally had the accounting and settlement and the case was only completely over after ten years.

What happened was that it cost me every dime I had ever earned, my business and a lot of personal trauma to prove that I was right. Oh, and they owed me $37.5k that I could deduct from my income taxes over the five years following the settlement. If I had lost the check would have been due then.

I did this because I do not like to be a collection agent for the government and be held liable for understanding all the BS that is in their codes.

In another post I will explain how Improvements to Real Property are taxed in the State of Florida as is required by law rather than the way the State will try to force you to pay it by strong arming... and that would be on the total sale (which would be more money to them but not what is required by law).

that sucks steven.

that kind of risk and cost is why even large companies knuckle under and start collecting sales tax if the state has even a weak legal argument that they should do so. the risk of noncompliance and the cost of fighting is too high.

[semlin]

Originally Posted by Mars

Liar.

nope

[Hugh Heifer]

Fuck a duck. I finally got logged on to my work puter. I gues that means I have to do something productive.

[Mars]

Originally Posted by Ullr

So many words.

wr0d.

[Mars]

Originally Posted by surfpig

What's with all these words?

wr0dz

[semlin]

Originally Posted by grrlscout89FJ62

I :heart: Dolly.

the american idols butchered several of her tunes last night although jolene was the best. it is actually amazing how much her personality makes her songs work. none of them were willing to channel their inner dolly...

[semlin]

Originally Posted by Hugh Heifer

Fuck a duck. I finally got logged on to my work puter. I gues that means I have to do something productive.

xTUT

maybe the fbi has taken over my computer

[Mars]

Originally Posted by srplus

Fred is arguing something that has no relevance to the RW and what is going on for the sake of teakettling.

I am teakettling for the sake of teakettling.

Now that's the inanity that I know and love!!

[grrlscout89FJ62]

Originally Posted by semlin

the american idols butchered several of her tunes last night although jolene was the best. it is actually amazing how much her personality makes her songs work. none of them were willing to channel their inner dolly...

I caught the last few minutes while awaiting Hell's Kitchen.

Nobody can do Dolly like Dolly.

[Mars]

Originally Posted by Mars

wr0d.

14441

Aah, the symmetry.

[Jman]

Originally Posted by srplus

You are wrong as far as Florida is concerned but may be correct about New York or New Jersey... I will consult with DD.

[RANT]Here sales tax is due on the sale of taxable goods or services as defined by our state laws or constitution. That sales is required to be paid by the person buying the merchandise or service. The person making the sale becomes an agent of the state to collect the sales tax and accepts the payment of the tax from the buyer and remits the tax collected to the state.

It is the person making the purchase that must pay the tax on the merchandise or sale by payment of tax to an agent or by submitting a voucher and paying themselves if the vendor is not an agent for sales tax collection.


The laws covering what is taxed and how it is taxed and all the things surrounding the issues are as clouded and skrewed up as the lawyers we have elected have been able to make them. As a Florida Sales Tax Agent who must file a monthly report I can attest to this.

I can also speak to the expense of dealing with the attorneys for the state and the auditors since businesses like mine were targeted to insure compliance. There is nothing like having three state auditors in your office going over every receipt for a screw or pop rivet for almost a month to get this to sink in. One of the rules about sales tax is IN Florida... is that if I use one screw in making a repair or even a paper towel to clean off a face of a sign with Windex then the entire labor bill is taxable... So on a $400 repair would net the state .075% of my labor or $30. So I buy a lot of screws personally, pay the sales tax on them upon the sale, do not include them in my inventory and give them to my customers. Then no materials are used in the repair and no sales tax is due.

Switching from cawfee to water. [/RANT]

BTW - If I preface my post with [RANT]
and end my post with the [/RANT] - there is more than a 50% chance I will continue to teakettle if given the impetus.

Originally Posted by semlin

the fact the seller collects and remits the tax, and is liable for the full amount of the tax if they fail to do so, does not mean they actually pay it at law . the state just drafts a law that turns them into mandatory tax collectors.

Ahh, I see your point. [ squinting ]

Sorry you're getting "screwed" in FLA, srplus.

[semlin]

can we abolish sales tax in tut?

[Mars]

The buck has been passed.

[Mars]

Originally Posted by semlin

can we abolish sales tax in tut?

That would require money. Which would require employment.

:confusion:

[surfpig]

Originally Posted by Hugh Heifer

Fuck a duck. I finally got logged on to my work puter. I gues that means I have to do something productive.

Nah, too close to quitting time!