[yooper]

Originally Posted by Jman

My point is that wood works much better under compression than tension, having the support running on the expanding diagonal is a much weaker design, with or without a support on the other side--fasteners can pull out under stress.

With the diagonal that has the high end on the non-hinge side, the diagonal piece supports the horizontal crosspiece like a shelf bracket, instead of "hanging" the lower crosspiece like a cable--much better use of wood.

Of course, many barn doors have an "X" support design, but you might not like that look.

Yeah that makes sense actually.

I've always built my gates the other way and they didn't sag. They were pretty overbuilt though.

[Mars]

Originally Posted by Jman

This is kind of cool--a weighted closing device.

That is

I'd hit it all the time though walking through the gate...it'd be better if they could put a little pulley or something nearer to the wall/fence to keep it out of the way.

[rachel1027]

Went for a short walk with the kiddies today. Even though we had snow Sat & Sun. it is like 65 today. Perfect for a short walk. With my TUT hat on of course

[Ullr]

Originally Posted by Mars

With it under tension you are relying on the the holding power of the screws yes? That seems more likely to fail to me than compressing a 2x4 lenthwise....

Yes.

A standard 2x4 (pine, spruce or fir) has about 1500lbs compression strength. Put the fasteners under tension and you have about 100 lbs or so.

[Jman]

Originally Posted by Mars

And you say that is the case because the wood crosspiece is under compression?

Originally Posted by yooper

I thought the point was put the support on tension rather than compression. Your way seems backwards to me.

Actually it probably doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Mars

With it under tension you are relying on the the holding power of the screws yes? That seems more likely to fail to me than compressing a 2x4 lenthwise....

Yes, compression of the diagonal crosspiece is better--you have the rigidity provided by the fasteners going into the vertical boards (either way would have this) AND you have the rigidity provided by the crosspiece being compressed between the horizontal members.

Having the higher end on the hinge side has the diagonal under tension, which eliminated the second contribution.

[yooper]

Originally Posted by srplus

It works under the same principle for sign posts...





The blocking keeps the post from drooping in the second set and fasteners will pull out if attached the wrong way.

You just made Jman's point for him. Wire should be in tension and wood should be in compression. NOICE!

[Mars]

Originally Posted by Ullr

Yes. If the wood is under compression it is at its strongest. If it goes the other way it is dependent upon the fasteners, which are the weak link in the chain.

Beleive me, I built more gates than I can count working as a foreman for a deck and fence company. i learned the hard way.

Anything else you'd recommend I do next time to the gate I built to improve on it structurally or else-wise? I'd never built one before and kinda faked my way through it. Glad I got the cross piece the right direction at least.

[yooper]

Originally Posted by Jman

You have been hoist by your own petard. Those two examples on the bottom right--I assume they are wood? Well, if you'll see, they say that using wood under compression is the right way, and wood under tension is the wrong way.

There you go.

[grrlscout89FJ62]

Can 35s fit on a stock 62 with stock rims?

[yooper]

Originally Posted by Jman

See? This guy built the door on the right the wrong way. And it fell down.

[Jman]

Originally Posted by yooper

Yeah that makes sense actually.

I've always built my gates the other way and they didn't sag. They were pretty overbuilt though.

If you are like me, then the parts of your house that will remain standing the longest are the ones you added yourself. If you're going to overbuild, either way would probably last a while, but if you want to use the least materials possible, well, you gotta go the other way.

[yooper]

Originally Posted by sisukid1975

this sitting on my ass business will take some getting used to. How do surfpig and Geoross cope?

Originally Posted by sisukid1975

Wiat, I know what'll help: BEER!

You've only been unemployed for like three hours!

[Mars]

I'm just sealed the gate with some Behr Weatherproofing stuff...I think its this:

[Mars]

Good stuff?

[Mars]

I also have been scheming some ideas for a planter/trellis awning kinda deal...but I'm afraid of the wood getting destroyed out here....

[Ullr]

Originally Posted by Mars

Anything else you'd recommend I do next time to the gate I built to improve on it structurally or else-wise? I'd never built one before and kinda faked my way through it. Glad I got the cross piece the right direction at least.

Make the cross member continuous, screw every board into it from the other side.

Cross members both ways will be stronger, but the point is to only put in what you need. The heavier the door/gate is the more likely it is to sag and the bigger a pain it is to handle. Jmans pic of the weighted gate is teh best example, if the crossmember ran the opposite way that would be dragging on the ground in 2 weeks since the vertical bars are widely spaced and so you cannot count on friction between them to give the gate rigidity, that gate design is predicated around correct use of the compression strength of wood.

[Mars]

Like I really need another home project, yeesh.

[Jman]

Originally Posted by Mars

Anything else you'd recommend I do next time to the gate I built to improve on it structurally or else-wise? I'd never built one before and kinda faked my way through it. Glad I got the cross piece the right direction at least.

The gate itself seems fine. My only concern is where the hinges/latch are fastened. It is my belief that eventually those fasteners will crack the block and pull out. Repeated stress--bang, bang, bang--will cause them to fail. Wood is a softer material and can handle that kind of stress better, so if there was some way to install a wooden frame around that door it would have been better, but then you would need a crosspiece above it, and it wouldn't look as nice.

[sisukid1975]

Originally Posted by yooper

You've only been unemployed for like three hours!

Beer is the answer.

[Ullr]

Originally Posted by yooper

You just made Jman's point for him. Wire should be in tension and wood should be in compression. NOICE!

Good point, you can use cables in the gate to give it rigidity without adding much weight, but the cables ahve to run the opposite way of a wood crossmember.

[rachel1027]

Before all you type-A's start telling my avy is not the Turner and Hooch dog, I know. But he is the same kind of dog and I could not find the actual pic of the puppy from the end of the movie.



I :heart: that movie. Another total B movie that I watch every time I see it on I want like 5 of those dogs. Someday when I have the room to let them run around and play...

[sisukid1975]

So Katie and I are thinking of taking a trip in the Land Yacht.

What would be a good place to go? Chicago to LA on Route 66?

[yooper]

Originally Posted by grrlscout89FJ62

Can 35s fit on a stock 62 with stock rims?

35x10.5 yes just barely but I wouldn't wheel it or you will rub, in fact you will rub on speed bumps and agressive cornering. The stock rims are really pushing it. You really want 15x8 rims.

35x12.5 no and you don't want that anyway, too wide, will never fit well, will always have some rubbing problems.


Ideal FJ62 tire size is 33x10.5x15

[sisukid1975]

Originally Posted by rachel1027

Before all you type-A's start telling my avy is not the Turner and Hooch dog, I know. But he is the same kind of dog and I could not find the actual pic of the puppy from the end of the movie.



I :heart: that movie. Another total B movie that I watch every time I see it on I want like 5 of those dogs. Someday when I have the room to let them run around and play...

wasn't Hooch a pit bull? A red Pit Bull?

[Ullr]

Originally Posted by Jman

The gate itself seems fine. My only concern is where the hinges/latch are fastened. It is my belief that eventually those fasteners will crack the block and pull out. Repeated stress--bang, bang, bang--will cause them to fail. Wood is a softer material and can handle that kind of stress better, so if there was some way to install a wooden frame around that door it would have been better, but then you would need a crosspiece above it, and it wouldn't look as nice.

About the only thing you could do is sink a 4x4 in concrete on the hinge side and hinge it off the 4x4, but you would lose 3.5" of width and that may be a fire code violation (36" is usually the minimum)

[Jman]

Originally Posted by Ullr

Yes. If the wood is under compression it is at its strongest. If it goes the other way it is dependent upon the fasteners, which are the weak link in the chain.

Beleive me, I built more gates than I can count working as a foreman for a deck and fence company. i learned the hard way.

I've only built three.

[sisukid1975]

No, Dogue de Bordeaux, I guess...

I've only seen that once or twice, but I remember him being a Pit Bull...

[grrlscout89FJ62]

i see I didn't miss anything important

and by "important" I mean "pertaining to me."

[Ullr]

Originally Posted by sisukid1975

wasn't Hooch a pit bull? A red Pit Bull?

Bull mastiff IIRC

def not a pit bull.

[sisukid1975]

Originally Posted by sisukid1975

So Katie and I are thinking of taking a trip in the Land Yacht.

What would be a good place to go? Chicago to LA on Route 66?

Maybe East Coast? Do Boston/NYC via Montreal?