[amos715]

Originally Posted by Jman

SPACE.com -- Asteroids Data Sheet

thank you -

see guys that's how you make an intelligent arguement, you research, you google, you find supporting facts.

you don't call names, complain about my typing skills and then run home to momma.

jman and i are not going to agree on some things but he has respectable, intelligence based, well reasoned ideas.


edit: and for the record i know i type and spell like a second grader

[OregonCruzer]

Originally Posted by amos715

so aside from the facts that we:

are forcing our religion down other peoples throats
are not faithful enough to just pray for the money
are going on a holiday fishing trip
are spamming the mud community
are to ignorant to believe in evolution
are wrong for trying to raise money outside of the church...

You forgot fearing the return of the Great Cthulhu

Serious, I'd suggest raffles, bake sales, or perhaps a sponsor in the church community that needs a good tax write off.

[amos715]

Originally Posted by OregonCruzer

You forgot fearing the return of the Great Cthulhu

Serious, I'd suggest raffles, bake sales, or perhaps a sponsor in the church community that needs a good tax write off.

hahaha

how about we raffle off a receipt for a church donation. we can raffle off a million dollar receipt that someone could use for tax purposes.





oh, everyone say hello to the irs guy that just got on-line

[amos715]

you know we use to raffle off a winchester 30-30 in ffa every year.

you think that would work?

edit: or how about raffling off a side of beef?

[OregonCruzer]

Originally Posted by amos715

hahaha

how about we raffle off a receipt for a church donation. we can raffle off a million dollar receipt that someone could use for tax purposes.





oh, every say hello to the irs guy that just got on-line

well it beats jumpin in front of a truck for some gold

No Im seriously trying to think of something, I'm just drawing a blank on something good.

[Jman]

Originally Posted by amos715

hahaha

how about we raffle off a receipt for a church donation. we can raffle off a million dollar receipt that someone could use for tax purposes.





oh, every say hello to the irs guy that just got on-line

I think I'll suggest that at the next meeting of our school board.

[amos715]

Originally Posted by OregonCruzer

well it beats jumpin in front of a truck for some gold

No Im seriously trying to think of something, I'm just drawing a blank on something good.

me, too.

the problem here is people are fundraisered to death. and everything under the sun, fruit, sausage, cookies, candy.

there was a church in east texas that did the pink flamingo thing.
you get 100 s stuck in your yard until you can raise 100 bucks, then you get to pick the next house they go to. church was mostly upper middle to lower upper class folks. great people, salt of the earth. but 100 bucks per family was nothing for them to come up with.
here we have farmers and oil field hands, something like that would not fly.

[OregonCruzer]

Originally Posted by amos715

me, too.

the problem here is people are fundraisered to death. and everything under the sun, fruit, sausage, cookies, candy.

there was a church in east texas that did the pink flamingo thing.
you get 100 s stuck in your yard until you can raise 100 bucks, then you get to pick the next house they go to. church was mostly upper middle to lower upper class folks. great people, salt of the earth. but 100 bucks per family was nothing for them to come up with.
here we have farmers and oil field hands, something like that would not fly.

Yeah, that's just 100 conveniently placed shotgun targets...

[LK1]

Originally Posted by re_guderian

'cause thats the way Charleton did it, right?



Stellar logic. You think that people that don't believe in God do believe that they'll suffer eternal damnation from that same God they don't believe in, so therefore they convert? Are you as worked up over all the believers of various religions that were tortured into de-converting by Stalin and Mao?

No because that's the way MY Bible says it happened . Were you there?

Here's my logic. I don't like it when ANYONE tries to cram their beliefs done my throat. Want to guess how many people have died as a result of religion throughout history? As compared to any other cause? As far as conjuring stories about burning in hell and the great googly moogly monster to get people to convert, there are an awful lot of people out there that believe anything you tell them.
There's a whole cult of people out there that believe an infallible, all powerful being is responsible for everything good that happens in their lives yet is not responsible when anything bad happens because even though he is all powerful he can't change history or events because he wants us to suffer and innocent children to die horrible deaths because its somehow good for humanity overall. Makes perfect sense. BTW, even though he demonstrated all kinds of "miraculous" things 2000 years ago he has chosen to avoid any proof of his existence recently because the world surely doesn't need any proof because everything is going so swimmingly now. Yup!
I'm sorry if your beliefs aren't strong enough to withstand an examination of the facts.

One more thing. I support any person that wants to help another person. So go to Mexico and do your thing.

[re_guderian]

Originally Posted by amos715

me, too.

the problem here is people are fundraisered to death. and everything under the sun, fruit, sausage, cookies, candy.

there was a church in east texas that did the pink flamingo thing.
you get 100 s stuck in your yard until you can raise 100 bucks, then you get to pick the next house they go to. church was mostly upper middle to lower upper class folks. great people, salt of the earth. but 100 bucks per family was nothing for them to come up with.
here we have farmers and oil field hands, something like that would not fly.

Fundraising is tricky. It depends on how many kids you have, what ages, what your $ needs/kid are, and what is their ability to pay on their own. For our Scouts we have used fundraising as a supplement to either the boys or their parents paying for the summer camp activities. Sometimes it's good to provided work opportunities to the youth. You teach them the value of work, plus they get the $ they need. This is tough for large groups, but works well for the few that might not be financially able to pay their own way. I've had kids come over and do yard work for $10/hour. We've done $5/plate spaghetti (monster) dinners, that have raised ~$1200 dollars. Like I mentioned earlier, we've done the "Flag-on-holidays" -> this requires year-round commitment. Personally, fundraising is a pain, and I am more inclined to just have the youth/families come up with the cash on their own.

Fundraising events/sales seem to impart a sense of entitlement to go on extravagant activities. I'd rather have them work hard on their own to come up with the $, but that's just me...

[amos715]

Originally Posted by re_guderian

Fundraising is tricky. It depends on how many kids you have, what ages, what your $ needs/kid are, and what is their ability to pay on their own. For our Scouts we have used fundraising as a supplement to either the boys or their parents paying for the summer camp activities. Sometimes it's good to provided work opportunities to the youth. You teach them the value of work, plus they get the $ they need. This is tough for large groups, but works well for the few that might not be financially able to pay their own way. I've had kids come over and do yard work for $10/hour. We've done $5/plate spaghetti (monster) dinners, that have raised ~$1200 dollars. Like I mentioned earlier, we've done the "Flag-on-holidays" -> this requires year-round commitment. Personally, fundraising is a pain, and I am more inclined to just have the youth/families come up with the cash on their own.

Fundraising events/sales seem to impart a sense of entitlement to go on extravagant activities. I'd rather have them work hard on their own to come up with the $, but that's just me...

that's good stuff, i have already began to encourage our congregation to hire the youth for yard work and such. but we have folks here that are pretty independent and don't really hire anyone for anything.
i did think about a chilli or bar-b-que supper.

and i did think your flag idea was good, i just work about 45 minutes from that community, i leave early get home late most days. so i would not be able to do that.

these kids are trying to raise about $350.00 bucks plus cost of passport by the last week in july.

[amos715]

Originally Posted by LK1

No because that's the way MY Bible says it happened . Were you there?

I'm sorry if your beliefs aren't strong enough to withstand an examination of the facts.

i'm torn between "ignore it and it will go away."

and the thing my older brother used to say " shut up stupid"

you make a lot of emotionally heated generic statements that really have no point.

i don't think anyone who has claimed to be Christian on this board has ever minded an examination of the facts.

just as those who are not Christian are able to give clear reasons why they believe what they do.

you, my little grasshopper are way off in left field by yourself.

and although you may have a bible i thought we proved a few post back, that you surely must not read it much.

[Jman]

Originally Posted by amos715

i don't think anyone who has claimed to be Christian on this board has ever minded an examination of the facts.

No, there was this one guy who sort of did. Well, at least, let's just say there was a huge difference between his definition of "fact" and most other people's definition. He also had anger management issues, I think.

[amos715]

Originally Posted by Jman

No, there was this one guy who sort of did. Well, at least, let's just say there was a huge difference between his definition of "fact" and most other people's definition. He also had anger management issues, I think.

edit: i've been wanting to add this






haha what a dope!!









































wait ..... we're not talking about me are we?

[fj40z]

amos715, I am going to paypal you a donation, its not a whole lot but at least its a start. I think its great that you all are going to help out a bunch of people in need. I have seen the amount of help mission trips have provided for extremely poor people, Its a great service for the people recieving the help and for those providing it.

[Jman]

Originally Posted by amos715

haha what a dope!!



we're not talking about me are we?

No.

















At least, I don't think so.

[amos715]

Originally Posted by fj40z

amos715, I am going to paypal you a donation, its not a whole lot but at least its a start. I think its great that you all are going to help out a bunch of people in need. I have seen the amount of help mission trips have provided for extremely poor people, Its a great service for the people recieving the help and for those providing it.

you rock man

i'll pm you my info

[amos715]

Originally Posted by fj40z

amos715, I am going to paypal you a donation, its not a whole lot but at least its a start. I think its great that you all are going to help out a bunch of people in need. I have seen the amount of help mission trips have provided for extremely poor people, Its a great service for the people recieving the help and for those providing it.

and any amount is great.

we had a family use our gym for their Christmas day stuff. they took up a donation to help pay for the gas, and lights (which the gym is free) one of the best donations we ever got, not a lot of money but 1 and 5 dollar bills. they gave what they could and i consider it a honor to be on the receiving end.

thanks again

[amos715]

Originally Posted by Jman

No.
At least, I don't think so.

i didn't think so either, i have my share of problems but anger management is not one of them.

lifes to short

although i love this smiley

[LoveTractor]

I love solicitations. Even when it's religion being sold like vacuum cleaners.

[amos715]

Originally Posted by re_guderian

But I'm glad you're now supportive of his efforts to cram new construction and clean orphanages down their gullible throats...

new quote of the day... classic

[amos715]

Originally Posted by LoveTractor

I love solicitations. Even when it's religion being sold like vacuum cleaners.

ouch !!

i'm not mad i just love this smiley

[IDave]

Originally Posted by Jman

No.

At least, I don't think so.

Yeah, like, do you do a lot of your Mud time hanging out in your underwear?

[amos715]

Originally Posted by IDave

Yeah, like, do you do a lot of your Mud time hanging out in your underwear?

no i don't get to. my boss is easy going but i think that would push the limits.

i have only dial up at home so i only use mud at work.

[IDave]

Nope, then he's not you!

[cruiser88]

Originally Posted by fj40z

amos715, I am going to paypal you a donation, its not a whole lot but at least its a start. I think its great that you all are going to help out a bunch of people in need. I have seen the amount of help mission trips have provided for extremely poor people, Its a great service for the people recieving the help and for those providing it.

[LK1]

Originally Posted by re_guderian

Share up what version of the Bible you have. I'm kind of surprised based on your previous posts that you actually have a Bible, let alone read it. Don't be quoting some on-line one either... Was I there? heh...

So your answer is that you don't have any more proof then I do.

Agreed. But "Cram" is a strong word. Care to share some of your personal experiences where someone (not only religious) has tried to "cram" something down your throat?

How about ignoring my Constitutional rights to not finance your (or anyone else's) religious beliefs?

Transformation from Secular to Religious Government

Under the Bush administration, our country is experiencing a major transformation from a secular to a religious government. The President's faith-based initiative is central to this transformation and raises serious questions about church-state separation. "Slouching toward theocracy. President Bush's faith-based initiative is doing better than you think," by Bill Berkowitz, 2/6/04 provides an overview of this transformation.

In his State of the Union address, Bush renewed a call for Congress to make permanent his faith-based proposals that would allow religious organizations to compete for more government contracts and grants without a strict separation between their religious activities and social service programs.

On February 4, 2004, the U.S. House of Representatives voted for provisions in a social services bill that allow religiously based job discrimination in publicly funded programs run by churches.
How Much Money?
How much are taxpayers paying for what Barry Lynn, Executive Director of American's United calls "federally subsidized employment discrimination?" According to Daniel Zwerdling who produced two programs on faith-based initiative for Bill Moyers TV show NOW in September, 2003, "administration spokesmen say they can't break down how much money has gone so far to religious groups .. they claim they don't keep that information."
The March, 2004, issue of Church and State reports that the "Faith Czar" Jim Towey announced to reporters that $40 billion dollars was now available to religious charities.
By studying White House press releases and the White House web site, Daniel Zwerdling found that religious groups could apply to more than a hundred federal programs that gave out more than $65 billion. In addition, religious groups ccould apply for more money through state-administered programs.



Enlighten us with some data. And, I agree that wanton killing in the name of any religion, non-religious, imperialists, or economic motive is shameful. Won't get any argument from me, though I hear your argument a lot without any backing numbers, so I'm starting to get skeptical of it's validity...

http://bookrate.wordpress.com/2006/07/22/deaths-over-history-religious-vs-nonreligous/

In short, eight-hundred and nine million people have died in religious wars. That’s nearly a billion people.

Oftentimes, a retort is that secular ideals and Godless Communism have killed many more. It is true that Stalin, among others, slaughtered his own people by the millions during the industrialization of Soviet Russia. By comparison, two-hundred and nine million have died in the name of Communism. Some sixty-two million died during World War II, civilian and military, on all sides. Conclusively, more people have died in the name of religion than in the name of Communism or Hitler, or the two combined times two.

Shame on those people. These are the same people that believe in infomercials, advertisements, TV news, Nigerian scams, etc. Not saying they should be taken advantage of, but please provide current evidence of religion "strongarming" people. I assume that you are referring to US-based Christian religions? Or are we taking you away from your global efforts to remove theocracies from Islamic countries? The Catholic "conversions" of natives of the new world was, on the most part, deplorable, and not in harmony with the teachings of Catholicism, I believe. But do you see that happening anywhere in North or Central America today? Within the last 400 years?

May 27, 2003, 1:55 p.m.
Onward, Christian Missionaries
Evangelization in Iraq.
http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley052703.asp

PARTIAL HISTORY OF
CHRISTIAN MISSIONARY ATROCITIES
http://www.burningcross.net/crusades/christian-missionary-atrocities.html

In case I'm not making myself clear (or you're feeling guilty) I don't care for any religion based wars.

Name a religion, or a cult, that espouses what you just described as their doctrine. This seems like your twisted interpretation of what religion believes. It is not anywhere near close to what I believe with respect to a Higher Being. I don't think what you described makes sense either. I'm just actually wondering who out there believes that, other than you.

God most commonly refers to the deity worshiped by followers of monotheistic and monolatristreligions, whom they believe to be the creator and overseer of the universe.[1]
Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the various conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, jealousy, and eternal and necessary existence. God has also been conceived as being incorporeal, a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".[1] These attributes were all supported to varying degrees by the early Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologian philosophers, including Augustine of Hippo,[2] Al-Ghazali,[3] and Maimonides.[2] Many notable medieval philosophers developed arguments for the existence of God,[4] attempting to wrestle with the apparent contradictions implied by many of these attributes. Philosophers have developed many arguments for and against the existence of God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

Can't imagine where I got that idea


Why just 2000 years ago? Why not earlier? Do you actually believe the accounts of those miracles? Was everything going so "swimingly" back then? Have you looked for miracles today? Would you even believe them if someone told you about them?

So your argument is that there were miracles more then 2000 years ago? But Christianity didn't exist, Short answer is that I don't believe they happened then and I don't believe they happened now. Anything that appears to be a miracle is just a random event. Sometime people recover from disease, sometimes they don't. How about the 2 guys that fell off the window washer scaffolding 20+ stories up? 1 died, 1 didn't. IT'S A MIRACLE! My point, which you seem to miss is that the Bible says that God was performing all his hocus pocus in public 2000 years ago but hasn't made an appearance since. Why?



No problem with the facts. You don't seem to have brought any to the table.

We're arguing abou the existence of God and you're asking for facts? I got your facts right here.

Just goes to show that I don't think you even read the thread. Its not "my thing". I'm not involved. And you really didn't seem terribly supportive of Amos715's efforts a few posts ago. You were just plain belligerent. But I'm glad you're now supportive of his efforts to cram new construction and clean orphanages down their gullible throats...

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[LK1]

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[surfpig]

Originally Posted by lk1

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Originally Posted by lk1

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[Cube Dweller]

Originally Posted by surfpig

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Does Blue Oyster Cult send out missionaries?