Prince William County, Virginia wants to bar illegal aliens from library...

[Darwood]

Originally Posted by cary

Yep, I agree. People keep complaining about the fact that immigrants don't assimilate themselves into society, so lets make sure that they can't?!!!! If a person is going to the library to try and improve themselves, or their family, legal or illegal, shouldn't we be encouraging them? Productive people contribute to our economy, legal or not.

I vote in favor of an exchange program. For every illegal alien that wants to go to the library and learn something, we take a welfare recipient that never finished school, never been to the library, and exclude them from the library. Better yet, take the welfare recipient and send them to Mexico and we will keep the illegal alien.

So we keep all the hard workers from Mexico and they get our lazy? I think this is the path to bringing balance to the force.

[Cruisin'Carolina]

Originally Posted by reffug

A sh@tload more than that...........................

I live one county away from this one.

And one county away from one who is waiting to see what happen in PW and go more extreme. Quite frankly I hope both go through and lead to bigger and better buses........................

Good luck....I hope something happens, but unless the tide turns, I just don't see stuff like this taking hold. It does have to start at the local level, however.

What ever happened to the town in PA and TX where they started to get tough? The story just dropped off the radar...

[Cruisin'Carolina]

Looks like these towns are getting eaten alive:

http://www.ailf.org/lac/clearinghouse_120706.shtml

[swank60]

Well, as always, I guess I have to bring it up again.

Want to stop illegals coming in? Stop their reason for coming. Go after the businesses that hire illegals. And do it without turning it into a gov. driven witch hunt. Locking people out of the pool and library is a path to national IDs only, not stopping the flow of illegal immigrants.

[cary]

Originally Posted by swank60

Well, as always, I guess I have to bring it up again.

Want to stop illegals coming in? Stop their reason for coming. Go after the businesses that hire illegals. And do it without turning it into a gov. driven witch hunt. Locking people out of the pool and library is a path to national IDs only, not stopping the flow of illegal immigrants.

Yep. It's funny the people keep ignoring the basic fact that the reason illegal aliens are coming here is because they are filling unfulfilled jobs. If legal workers were lining up to do the work and performed it to the same level, employers wouldn't be hiring illegal workers.

[-Spike-]

Originally Posted by cary

Yep. It's funny the people keep ignoring the basic fact that the reason illegal aliens are coming here is because they are filling unfulfilled jobs. If legal workers were lining up to do the work and performed it to the same level, employers wouldn't be hiring illegal workers.

Um, no. Illegals are getting work because they are willing to work cheaper than most people. They have a distinct advantage in that area because a great majority of them don't pay taxes- which is why I don't think they deserve to share in the spoils of our civilization, like pools, libraries, hospitals, welfare, roads, infrastructure, and any of the rest of the tax-funded benefits our society provides its citizens. If there were no illegal workers willing to work so cheap, you can bet the jobs would still get done- the employers will simply have to pay them more. Yes, prices will go up- tough shit. You are paying the higher prices now, but they show up in your water bill, property taxes, hospital bill, gas tax, etc. instead of the price of your lettuce and citrus.
If the wages for this work were set by supply and demand the way all other wages are set, the jobs would be filled by Americans, or legal aliens with work permits. Actually, the wages are set by supply and demand, but the supply is illegal.

Arizona has recently passed a very cool law, targeting employers. If a company is found to be employing illegal aliens, they lose their license to operate for a short period, I believe it's 3 days. If they are caught a second time, they lose it permanently. It's a start.

-Spike

[Cruisin'Carolina]

Originally Posted by -Spike-

Um, no. Illegals are getting work because they are willing to work cheaper than most people. They have a distinct advantage in that area because a great majority of them don't pay taxes- which is why I don't think they deserve to share in the spoils of our civilization, like pools, libraries, hospitals, welfare, roads, infrastructure, and any of the rest of the tax-funded benefits our society provides its citizens. If there were no illegal workers willing to work so cheap, you can bet the jobs would still get done- the employers will simply have to pay them more. Yes, prices will go up- tough shit. You are paying the higher prices now, but they show up in your water bill, property taxes, hospital bill, gas tax, etc. instead of the price of your lettuce and citrus.
If the wages for this work were set by supply and demand the way all other wages are set, the jobs would be filled by Americans, or legal aliens with work permits. Actually, the wages are set by supply and demand, but the supply is illegal.

Arizona has recently passed a very cool law, targeting employers. If a company is found to be employing illegal aliens, they lose their license to operate for a short period, I believe it's 3 days. If they are caught a second time, they lose it permanently. It's a start.

-Spike

First of all, excellent post....from the link above, I believe it is 10 days....although I'm not sure how drastic a hotel shutting down or a lawn service not cutting grass without a license is going to do much good, you are right, it is a start.

After reading the link I posted above, I was amazed at how difficult it actually is to do anything, as even if you have good intentions, the maze of laws in effect are mind boggling and the list of people ready to sue is deep.

Nothing is going to happen unless Federal funding and boots on the ground are put in place. And that, unfortunately, is not going to happen, from either party.

[alvarorb]

I wonder how many Border Patrol raids there have been in VA libraries and swimming pools?
I think this is a smoke screen to get people's attention. I agree with Swank60. Go after business that hire illegals. I don't get why people get so upset with illegal immigration, when it's capitalism forces at work. Hire cheap labor to reduce costs.

How about making it really hard for farms and contrators to hire illegals (close borders, hefty fines, etc.) Don't you think that in no time the agro and construction industries would find a solution through technology. Why does every sector of the economy have to deal with healthcare & compensation issues. While they do away with disposable workers. It's time they compete like everyone else.

Alvaro

[reffug]

[enter reffug ranting as usual]

Originally Posted by alvarorb

I wonder how many Border Patrol raids there have been in VA libraries and swimming pools?

NOT ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND THATS FROM A RESIDENT.

I think this is a smoke screen to get people's attention.

Well then I for one hope it works.

I agree with Swank60. Go after business that hire illegals.

I got no problem with this either.

I don't get why people get so upset with illegal immigration, when it's capitalism forces at work. Hire cheap labor to reduce costs.

Because............................

there are a ton of reasons any business owner could line out for you.

Hell any citizen could line out.

How about making it really hard for farms and contrators to hire illegals (close borders, hefty fines, etc.) Don't you think that in no time the agro and construction industries would find a solution through technology.

Uhm check it out 'heavy agro, food production' on a farm level has already found advancement throught tech to where this aint necessary.

Why does every sector of the economy have to deal with healthcare & compensation issues. While they do away with disposable workers. It's time they compete like everyone else.

Why does the Govt have to deal with this issue period?

This country was founded on the ideal of less Govt.


[exit reffug still mad]

[alvarorb]

Originally Posted by reffug

[
Because............................

there are a ton of reasons any business owner could line out for you.

Hell any citizen could line out.


Why does the Govt have to deal with this issue period?

This country was founded on the ideal of less Govt.


[exit reffug still mad]

Reffug,

Don't get mad.
What do you think the success rate would be on raids on public libraries?
Just the thought of it sounds like a Monty Phyton's sketch.

So are you saying it's OK to hire illegals? But it's not OK that they are here.
Please clarify this. Also, could you tell me a couple of those "tons" of reasons?

My point of view is that it's not OK that they are here. As long as they can find work, they will come. If work dries up, then there is no incentive to come. It's pretty simple. And we as consumers have to be ready to deal with the consequences of 100% legal labor. Consequences such as paying more at the supermarket, hotels, restaurants and new homes. We can't have it both ways.

Regarding the Government's issue: I think it's easier and more effective to check on business payroll than to go round public libraries and swimming pools looking for illegal alliens.

And finally, What exactly do you mean by "Hell any citizen could line out.". Do you have insider information that I don't?

Alvaro

[-Spike-]

Originally Posted by alvarorb

What do you think the success rate would be on raids on public libraries?
Just the thought of it sounds like a Monty Phyton's sketch.

Where in the article does it suggest 'public raids'?

I think the idea is to deny access to tax funded services to illegal aliens, not chase them down. Perhaps it's not the only solution, but it's better than what's going on right now- with us saying 'Well, they're here, so we better not deny them the fruits of our society'. BS. There's no reason to issue these criminals library cards, nor a pool pass or any other services. Why give anyone a free pass?

-Spike

[Cruisin'Carolina]

Originally Posted by -Spike-

Where in the article does it suggest 'public raids'?

I think the idea is to deny access to tax funded services to illegal aliens, not chase them down. Perhaps it's not the only solution, but it's better than what's going on right now- with us saying 'Well, they're here, so we better not deny them the fruits of our society'. BS. There's no reason to issue these criminals library cards, nor a pool pass or any other services. Why give anyone a free pass?

-Spike

I hear ya, but the reality is even funnier than the Monty Python sketch suggested...

How is a life guard or librarian supposed to verify citizenship? The address thing is a joke, just ask anyone in the state of NC that has been to a DMV.

The idea is good, but as Hazelton, PA and Farmer's Branch, TX are finding out, they are outgunned and underfunded to take this issue on. Not to mention outlegislated

On the other hand the labor dept or WC departments might have some ability...

The Feds aren't going to do squat

[-Spike-]

I don't know how the librarian is supposed to verify residency status. Perhaps a driver's license or ID card- you know, the one that every person (at least in my state, don't know if it's national or not) is supposed to carry by law. Regardless of how it gets enforced, how can anyone argue against the idea? The point is to get laws on the books and get moving in the right direction.

-Spike

[Cruisin'Carolina]

Originally Posted by -Spike-

I don't know how the librarian is supposed to verify residency status. Perhaps a driver's license or ID card- you know, the one that every person (at least in my state, don't know if it's national or not) is supposed to carry by law. Regardless of how it gets enforced, how can anyone argue against the idea? The point is to get laws on the books and get moving in the right direction.

-Spike

I agree with you, I'm just saying reality is that illegals get driver's licenses, and communities are getting sucked dry by the ACLU for trying anything.

Somewhere, somebody's getting paid good money designing a 700 mile fence (which is stupid, I'm with Alvorab, get the source, the jobs) for a 2100 mile border

[-Spike-]

The reality is that we don't do anything because we don't think it will make a difference. If we could just start doing something, we might be pleasantly suprised. Even the fence will deter some. The ID requirement will deter some, the thought of dying in the desert will deter some, the denial of services will deter some, the denial of citizenship based solely on birth in the US will deter some, you get the idea. Doing nothing deters no one.

-Spike

[Cruisin'Carolina]

Originally Posted by -Spike-

The reality is that we don't do anything because we don't think it will make a difference. If we could just start doing something, we might be pleasantly suprised. Even the fence will deter some. The ID requirement will deter some, the thought of dying in the desert will deter some, the denial of services will deter some, the denial of citizenship based solely on birth in the US will deter some, you get the idea. Doing nothing deters no one.

-Spike

I'm starting to go back to my original idea. Have all the counties and the states do it at once, maybe the ACLU won't be able to keep up

[OZCAL]

Originally Posted by alvarorb

I wonder how many Border Patrol raids there have been in VA libraries and swimming pools?
...

Originally Posted by reffug

[enter reffug ranting as usual]

NOT ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND THATS FROM A RESIDENT.

...

Finally we are at the issue that concerns me most. I don't want to carry a federal id card to use the municipal pool.

Build a wall at the border before making citizens carry around more papers.

[-Spike-]

Originally Posted by OZCAL

Finally we are at the issue that concerns me most. I don't want to carry a federal id card to use the municipal pool.

Build a wall at the border before making citizens carry around more papers.

And if your DL would suffice?

Although I have no problem whatsoever with building a wall.

-Spike

[OZCAL]

Originally Posted by -Spike-

...Perhaps a driver's license or ID card- you know, the one that every person (at least in my state, don't know if it's national or not) is supposed to carry by law...

-Spike

Spike I'd be curious to see that law. Any idea of the source?

[OZCAL]

Originally Posted by -Spike-

And if your DL would suffice?

Although I have no problem whatsoever with building a wall.

-Spike

DMV can barely assess my driving ability let alone my immigration status

[Darwood]

Originally Posted by alvarorb

Reffug,

Don't get mad.
What do you think the success rate would be on raids on public libraries?
Just the thought of it sounds like a Monty Phyton's sketch.

So are you saying it's OK to hire illegals? But it's not OK that they are here.
Please clarify this. Also, could you tell me a couple of those "tons" of reasons?

My point of view is that it's not OK that they are here. As long as they can find work, they will come. If work dries up, then there is no incentive to come. It's pretty simple. And we as consumers have to be ready to deal with the consequences of 100% legal labor. Consequences such as paying more at the supermarket, hotels, restaurants and new homes. We can't have it both ways.

Regarding the Government's issue: I think it's easier and more effective to check on business payroll than to go round public libraries and swimming pools looking for illegal alliens.

And finally, What exactly do you mean by "Hell any citizen could line out.". Do you have insider information that I don't?

Alvaro

What Alvaro said. The way I see it there are two ways to fix this issue: Penalize the employers who hire illegals enough that it makes no sense to hire illegals, or build a huge wall making it very difficult to cross the Mexican/US border. Since I'm pretty pessimistic towards politicians and their attitudes towards corporation, we better get started on that wall.

[brownbear]

Originally Posted by jhnLennon

do you people here actually think that most illegal aliens come here to learn about our culture?they come here to make money,they are just as patriaotic about their country as we are about ours.they might want to learn our language might as far as our history and culture i think they could give 2 s**ts less. other wise you wouldnt see everyone of them driving around with a mexican flag in thnere back window

BS

Immigrants(legal or illegal) do not just come for the money. They come for the dream. In your case the American Dream. Good jobs, good life etc.

They are proud of their history too. Heritage.

I see Italian Canadians with little Italy flags on their cars too.... people are proud of their heritage.

If the general public had to take the exams immigrants have to take for citizenships most would fail. Most Canadian/Americans don't know their culture..... what ever that is.