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05-24-07, 04:31 PM
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#1 (permalink)
| | Site Addict
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Los Gatos, California
Posts: 1,425
| WTF??? what kind of a person loves pigeons this much?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...n120918D71.DTL 
(05-24) 15:06 PDT Los Angeles (AP) --
Pigeon fanciers in three states were accused of shooting, clubbing and gassing federally protected hawks and falcons, authorities said Thursday.
A 14-month undercover investigation by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service led to charges being filed against a Texas man on Wednesday, three Oregon men on Monday and seven Southern California men earlier this month.
The men were accused of violating the Migratory Bird Treaty Act by taking or attempting to take a protected bird. Each charge carries a maximum penalty of six months in federal prison.
Six of the Californians were arrested on Wednesday, and the seventh surrendered Thursday, Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Johns said.
The men were associated with clubs for enthusiasts of Birmingham roller pigeons, which because of a genetic defect do backward flips while in flight and make attractive prey for hawks and falcons.
"This is a group of hobbyists who selectively inbred a genetic defect that attracts predators," then seemed to "feel entitled ... to engage in the wholesale slaughter of these predators," Johns said.
Among those arrested was Juan Navarro, 44, of Los Angeles, president of the National Birmingham Roller Club. He was released on bond, authorities said.
Navarro told an undercover agent that he had killed one hawk or falcon a week, authorities said.
A call to Navarro's home seeking comment was not immediately returned.
Investigators estimated that roller pigeon groups in the Los Angeles area alone have killed as many as 2,000 hawks and falcons annually.
A San Bernardino man claimed he had filled a five-gallon bucket with talons cut from hawks he had killed, prosecutors said.
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05-24-07, 04:46 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| | Site Addict
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Queensland
Posts: 1,066
| That's unbelievable 
I had tumblers when I was a teenager and saw red tail hawks circling over them - never saw an attack.
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05-24-07, 05:27 PM
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#3 (permalink)
| | still solving problems...
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: uhhhh...duh...Northern CA
Posts: 5,421
| there are cities who have introduced birds of prey in order to control the pigeon population...
__________________ a couple pairs of pink panties...
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05-24-07, 05:30 PM
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#4 (permalink)
| | California Expatriate
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Z.O.W.I.E. Headquarters
Posts: 1,904
| Quote: |
...which because of a genetic defect do backward flips while in flight and make attractive prey for hawks and falcons.
| Ummm, natural selection anyone?
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05-24-07, 05:38 PM
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#5 (permalink)
| | Site Addict
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Los Gatos, California
Posts: 1,425
| Exactly, I figured it was Darwinism in action  | |
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05-24-07, 07:29 PM
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#6 (permalink)
| | Site Addict
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Queensland
Posts: 1,066
| Darwinism, yes, but for a different reason.
The tumbler/roller does its tumble when someone claps their hands. The handclap mimics the sound of a shotgun blast. The "tumble" disrupts the flight path of the pigeon, putting it earlier than, and under, the spray of an accurate hunter's shotgun blast.
So I was told by tumbler guys way back when.
I honestly remember thinking "what are the odds I'm ever going to tell somebody else that story?"
I suppose the tumble might attract a raptor in the sense that raptors look for erratic (lifelike) motion in a visual field when hunting. The tumble might stick out like a sore thumb.
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05-24-07, 07:40 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,097
| Quote:
Originally Posted by OZCAL  Darwinism, yes, but for a different reason.
The tumbler/roller does its tumble when someone claps their hands. The handclap mimics the sound of a shotgun blast. The "tumble" disrupts the flight path of the pigeon, putting it earlier than, and under, the spray of an accurate hunter's shotgun blast.
So I was told by tumbler guys way back when.
I honestly remember thinking "what are the odds I'm ever going to tell somebody else that story?"
I suppose the tumble might attract a raptor in the sense that raptors look for erratic (lifelike) motion in a visual field when hunting. The tumble might stick out like a sore thumb. | Yeah, I don't know about that.
When a shotgun is fired, the pellets leave the barrel at a velocity somewhere in the vicinity of 1200+ feet per second ( http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...firearm=5&s1=1). The speed of sound is 1087 feet per second.
Therefore, if you fire a shotgun at anything that is even approaching lethal range, it does not hear the blast before the pellets arrive. | |
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05-24-07, 08:26 PM
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#8 (permalink)
| | Site Addict
Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,810
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BHMCruiser Yeah, I don't know about that.
When a shotgun is fired, the pellets leave the barrel at a velocity somewhere in the vicinity of 1200+ feet per second ( http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...firearm=5&s1=1). The speed of sound is 1087 feet per second.
Therefore, if you fire a shotgun at anything that is even approaching lethal range, it does not hear the blast before the pellets arrive. | Why'd you have to mess up the man's story. I was digging it.
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1974 FJ40 FI vortec 350, H42/Orion 4:1, 35x15.50 SXs on MRW beadlocks, lock-rited f/r, Saginaw ps, 30 Longs, 6 stud hi-steer, etc, etc.
1994 FZJ80 with factory lockers and 285 revos.
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05-24-07, 08:47 PM
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#9 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,097
| Quote:
Originally Posted by '74 UA FJ Why'd you have to mess up the man's story. I was digging it. | I didn't want some unsuspecting Mudder to try and pull a Remo Williams on a shotgun-wielding maniac. | |
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05-24-07, 08:53 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| | Forum Lifer
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Central California
Posts: 16,596
| Quote:
Originally Posted by nat http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...n120918D71.DTL
(05-24) 15:06 PDT Los Angeles (AP) --
Pigeon fanciers in three states were accused of shooting, clubbing and gassing federally protected hawks and falcons, authorities said Thursday.
A 14-month undercover investigation by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service led to charges being filed against a Texas man on Wednesday, three Oregon men on Monday and seven Southern California men earlier this month.
The men were accused of violating the Migratory Bird Treaty Act by taking or attempting to take a protected bird. Each charge carries a maximum penalty of six months in federal prison.
Six of the Californians were arrested on Wednesday, and the seventh surrendered Thursday, Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Johns said.
The men were associated with clubs for enthusiasts of Birmingham roller pigeons, which because of a genetic defect do backward flips while in flight and make attractive prey for hawks and falcons.
"This is a group of hobbyists who selectively inbred a genetic defect that attracts predators," then seemed to "feel entitled ... to engage in the wholesale slaughter of these predators," Johns said.
Among those arrested was Juan Navarro, 44, of Los Angeles, president of the National Birmingham Roller Club. He was released on bond, authorities said.
Navarro told an undercover agent that he had killed one hawk or falcon a week, authorities said.
A call to Navarro's home seeking comment was not immediately returned.
Investigators estimated that roller pigeon groups in the Los Angeles area alone have killed as many as 2,000 hawks and falcons annually.
A San Bernardino man claimed he had filled a five-gallon bucket with talons cut from hawks he had killed, prosecutors said. |
I hope they all get a maximum sentence. | |
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05-24-07, 08:59 PM
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#11 (permalink)
| | Forum Lifer
Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansastitty
Posts: 7,353
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BHMCruiser Yeah, I don't know about that.
When a shotgun is fired, the pellets leave the barrel at a velocity somewhere in the vicinity of 1200+ feet per second ( http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...firearm=5&s1=1). The speed of sound is 1087 feet per second.
Therefore, if you fire a shotgun at anything that is even approaching lethal range, it does not hear the blast before the pellets arrive. |
Roger that. If they "tumble"........they have felt the power 
Ed
__________________ My Anger-Management Class really pisses me off
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05-24-07, 09:12 PM
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#12 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,810
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BHMCruiser I didn't want some unsuspecting Mudder to try and pull a Remo Williams on a shotgun-wielding maniac. | I had to google Remo Williams.
"The Chiun character, who is stereotypically nationalistic, racist and sexist, is both the comic relief and wise mentor figure in the film."
Sounds like a B movie with an A for a great character.
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1974 FJ40 FI vortec 350, H42/Orion 4:1, 35x15.50 SXs on MRW beadlocks, lock-rited f/r, Saginaw ps, 30 Longs, 6 stud hi-steer, etc, etc.
1994 FZJ80 with factory lockers and 285 revos.
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05-24-07, 09:14 PM
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#13 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,097
| Quote:
Originally Posted by '74 UA FJ I had to google Remo Williams.
"The Chiun character, who is stereotypically nationalistic, racist and sexist, is both the comic relief and wise mentor figure in the film."
Sounds like a B movie with an A for a great character. | Best B movie ever.
"Chiun, you are amazing."
"No............................................... .....................I am MUCH better than that." | |
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05-24-07, 09:25 PM
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#14 (permalink)
| | Site Addict
Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,810
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BHMCruiser Best B movie ever.
"Chiun, you are amazing."
"No............................................... .....................I am MUCH better than that." | I'll have to put Remo Williams on my "Movies to watch in the unlikely event that they ever come on television again" list.
__________________
1974 FJ40 FI vortec 350, H42/Orion 4:1, 35x15.50 SXs on MRW beadlocks, lock-rited f/r, Saginaw ps, 30 Longs, 6 stud hi-steer, etc, etc.
1994 FZJ80 with factory lockers and 285 revos.
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05-24-07, 09:29 PM
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#15 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,097
| Quote:
Originally Posted by '74 UA FJ I'll have to put Remo Williams on my "Movies to watch in the unlikely event that they ever come on television again" list. | You don't have TBS? | |
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05-24-07, 09:33 PM
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#16 (permalink)
| | Site Addict
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,676
| Time to go feathered rat....er....pigeon hunting!
__________________ "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
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05-24-07, 09:41 PM
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#17 (permalink)
| | Site Addict
Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,810
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BHMCruiser You don't have TBS? | Doesn't everyone get the Braves channel? Maybe I'll set the tivo so I don't have to look for it.
Where can I get some tumbling pigeons? Might be more fun than skeet.
__________________
1974 FJ40 FI vortec 350, H42/Orion 4:1, 35x15.50 SXs on MRW beadlocks, lock-rited f/r, Saginaw ps, 30 Longs, 6 stud hi-steer, etc, etc.
1994 FZJ80 with factory lockers and 285 revos.
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05-24-07, 10:14 PM
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#18 (permalink)
| | Damn
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Central Texas
Posts: 327
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in Oregon Time to go feathered rat....er....pigeon hunting! | Flying disease bags 
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05-24-07, 10:22 PM
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#19 (permalink)
| | Site Addict
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Queensland
Posts: 1,066
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BHMCruiser Yeah, I don't know about that.
When a shotgun is fired, the pellets leave the barrel at a velocity somewhere in the vicinity of 1200+ feet per second ( http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...firearm=5&s1=1). The speed of sound is 1087 feet per second.
Therefore, if you fire a shotgun at anything that is even approaching lethal range, it does not hear the blast before the pellets arrive. | This would have been way back, when I suppose, probably more of a blunderbuss than the weapon of today. Dunno what the exit velocity of those old guns was. Just something that the old pigeon guys told me...
I wonder what the exit velocity would be if the hunter was on a treadmill?
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05-24-07, 10:23 PM
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#20 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,097
| Quote:
Originally Posted by OZCAL This would have been way back, when I suppose, probably more of a blunderbuss than the weapon of today. Dunno what the exit velocity of those old guns was. Just something that the old pigeon guys told me...
I wonder what the exit velocity would be if the hunter was on a treadmill? | Which way is the treadmill moving? | |
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