Eric?

PHBeerman · 11-13-06, 09:07 AM

http://www.news4jax.com/news/10295241/detail.html

Are you out stealing Pits now?

erics_bruisers · 11-13-06, 09:16 AM

what a bunch of trash --

-- she's selling dog like they're objects, she get robbed, and the dogs suffer --

-- now tell me people, it's all the DOGS' fault, right?

:|

BHMCruiser · 11-13-06, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erics_bruisers

what a bunch of trash --

-- she's selling dog like they're objects, she get robbed, and the dogs suffer --

-- now tell me people, it's all the DOGS' fault, right?

:|

dogs ARE objects, aren't they?

erics_bruisers · 11-13-06, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHMCruiser

dogs ARE objects, aren't they?

no -- their lives, with maleable personalities --

-- cars are cars, dogs are unique --

-- it's like saying children are objects -- :|

Doc · 11-13-06, 09:49 AM

I had a lawyer once tell me pets are viewed as 'items', not beings.

Cruisin'Carolina · 11-13-06, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erics_bruisers

no -- their lives, with maleable personalities --

-- cars are cars, dogs are unique --

-- it's like saying children are objects -- :|

Except for the fact that you buy and own dogs. They even come with papers

Except in the south, especially if the owners watch Nascar

Doc · 11-13-06, 09:59 AM

Eric, you know me so take this as it's intended, and not as an offense.

Until you have a child of your own you can't imagine the kind of mental shift a child will give you.

I've had animals in my house ever since I moved out of my parents place. First I had ferrets, and most recently (currently) two dogs adopted from homelessness. I loved all of them as "if they were my own children". Spoiled them all rotten. Ferrets had the run of the house, dogs sleep under or on the bed/ couches.. etc..

But I'd go out right now and put a bullet in their heads if they attacked leif. Not even a second thought about it.

Kids are way different than pets. You just can't know until you KNOW.

PHBeerman · 11-13-06, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erics_bruisers

no -- their lives, with maleable personalities --

-- cars are cars, dogs are unique --

-- it's like saying children are objects -- :|

Dude, you have a JD?

BHMCruiser · 11-13-06, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erics_bruisers

-- it's like saying children are objects -- :|

Even you cannot believe this, it is such a stupid statement.

erics_bruisers · 11-13-06, 11:53 AM

oohhh -- now all the children lovers stand up and take notice --

-- i like kids, though i don't have any -- so please understand my viewpoint too --

-- i am sure when i have them one day i will covet them and be thankful for them and have a lot of fun with them --

-- but for now, i'm of a different angle than y'all -- and that's okay --

-- anyway, i like kids, and i love my dogs -- and that's just where i'm at right now --

erics_bruisers · 11-13-06, 11:54 AM

-- and also, i would never let any of my dogs near any of your kids -- to me, it's not worth and risk of bullets and the like --

-- that way, everyone stays happy --

BHMCruiser · 11-13-06, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erics_bruisers

-- but for now, i'm of a different angle than y'all -- and that's okay --

No it's not "okay." It is a fundamental character flaw to place animals in the same category as human beings. Comparing your dogs to someone else's children is idiotic.

I don't have children. I don't like children. I like dogs. I like dogs more than children. However, they are not even comparable, as, like we've already established, dogs are objects and children are...children.

In the past I've teased you for being a typical Dookie, i.e. a clueless Yankee with screwed up priorities and lexical ordering who once saw a cat in his backyard and thought it might be a hyena, but it was all good-natured. These last few posts of yours are mind-boggling to me. Really.

And no, I don't think I can let this go. So please explain.

ATLcrusher · 11-13-06, 12:02 PM

Maybe it was a third tier law school...

Doc · 11-13-06, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erics_bruisers

i love my dogs -- and that's just where i'm at right now --

And you should. I still love my dogs and would do just about anything for them- but it's just different now.

I am in no way condoning treating animals badly. Owing pets is a responsability. Not one to be taken lightly or disposed of at first sign of inconvenience.

erics_bruisers · 11-13-06, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHMCruiser

No it's not "okay." It is a fundamental character flaw to place animals in the same category as human beings. Comparing your dogs to someone else's children is idiotic.

I don't have children. I don't like children. I like dogs. I like dogs more than children. However, they are not even comparable, as, like we've already established, dogs are objects and children are...children.

In the past I've teased you for being a typical Dookie, i.e. a clueless Yankee with screwed up priorities and lexical ordering who once saw a cat in his backyard and thought it might be a hyena, but it was all good-natured. These last few posts of yours are mind-boggling to me. Really.

And no, I don't think I can let this go. So please explain.

sorry -- i just really covet my dogs at this point in my life -- they're my priority, and that's my right --

-- as to kids, i have no opinion on them, really, except the rights they're legally afforded -- i am never around them, and i don't have a personal opinion on them --

-- that's all --

BHMCruiser · 11-13-06, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erics_bruisers

sorry -- i just really covet my dogs at this point in my life -- they're my priority, and that's my right --

-- as to kids, i have no opinion on them, really, except the rights they're legally afforded -- i am never around them, and i don't have a personal opinion on them --

-- that's all --

I'm not telling you that you cannot love your dogs, even build your entire life around them. As an objective matter, that's your call. As a subjective matter, I have no problem with that. I love dogs too.

As for the "rights legally afforded" to children, I found that to be an interesting expression. Does that sentence mean that you feel put upon by protection afforded children not afforded (your) dogs? Or do you really mean that you have no opinion of children? The latter seems unlikely. Children are everywhere. They are obnoxious, screaming, dirty, snotty little shits touching your stuff and teasing your dogs. People act like these children, which are ubiquitous, are little godlets who piss gold and shit lilac, and you have no opinion of children? Don't you have nieces and nephews?

Go for it, Eric: should dogs be afforded the same protections in our society that children are?

wob · 11-13-06, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erics_bruisers

sorry -- i just really covet my dogs at this point in my life -- they're my priority, and that's my right --

-- as to kids, i have no opinion on them, really, except the rights they're legally afforded -- i am never around them, and i don't have a personal opinion on them --

-- that's all --

It looks like you are going to take an ass whoopin' on this one, E.

I hear you, though, and understand what you are saying. My old dog was my boy, my best friend, and child all in one. That changed once my son came into the mix. I still loved my dog, but it wasn't like it is with my son.

Anyways.... I know what you meant.

erics_bruisers · 11-13-06, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHMCruiser

I'm not telling you that you cannot love your dogs, even build your entire life around them. As an objective matter, that's your call. As a subjective matter, I have no problem with that. I love dogs too.

As for the "rights legally afforded" to children, I found that to be an interesting expression. Does that sentence mean that you feel put upon by protection afforded children not afforded (your) dogs? Or do you really mean that you have no opinion of children? The latter seems unlikely. Children are everywhere. They are obnoxious, screaming, dirty, snotty little shits touching your stuff and teasing your dogs. People act like these children, which are ubiquitous, are little godlets who piss gold and shit lilac, and you have no opinion of children? Don't you have nieces and nephews?

Go for it, Eric: should dogs be afforded the same protections in our society that children are?

i actually like kids for kids' sake -- like my nieces and nephews -- they're little people --

-- how their parents are to them is a whole other story --

and i don't think animals and people should have the same rights, because they're very different beings --

-- people have reason, and intent, whereas dogs don't -- dogs aren't people, and they drive a lot off of instinct, not reason -- thus, people need to be held responsible for their mens rea and things like that -- aspects which dogs don't really get to --

-- and people are the ones responsible for their dogs -- while i don't think a dog is purely chattel to the person, i think instead that the people have to act like responsible adults and own their pups responsibly --

-- and when things go really wrong with dogs, quickly or over time, i think oftentimes there's a weak link in their ownership chain to blame --

-- mind you, i have seen dogs that were born crazy, but that's few and far between --

78-FJ40 · 11-13-06, 12:16 PM

I have both, one daughter, 3 dogs (two of them for 9 years now).

Yes, my daughter takes priority and can't be compared to my dogs. She will always come first. I don't think anyone is really arguing that point.

But, my dogs are far more then just objects or items. A car or boat or sofa or cup is an item. A dog, though purchased with or without papers, is something that you develop an emotional bond with and have affection, love, caring, concern etc. for. At least I do. If my cruiser was stolen, I would be pissed, but that's it. If one of my dogs was run over by a car, I would feel all kinds of emotional pain because of that bond. To me, looking at a dog as an object, is heartless and cold. Just my opinion.

BHMCruiser · 11-13-06, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erics_bruisers

i actually like kids for kids' sake -- like my nieces and nephews -- they're little people --

-- how their parents are to them is a whole other story --

and i don't think animals and people should have the same rights, because they're very different beings --

-- people have reason, and intent, whereas dogs don't -- dogs aren't people, and they drive a lot off of instinct, not reason -- thus, people need to be held responsible for their mens rea and things like that -- aspects which dogs don't really get to --

-- and people are the ones responsible for their dogs -- while i don't think a dog is purely chattel to the person, i think instead that the people have to act like responsible adults and own their pups responsibly --

-- and when things go really wrong with dogs, quickly or over time, i think oftentimes there's a weak link in their ownership chain to blame --

-- mind you, i have seen dogs that were born crazy, but that's few and far between --

Well said, and I totally agree with you, especially about the bad dogs more often than not being a product of a bad owner.

I just wasn't going to let you get away with the original children line.

I think you're a fine fellow and know that your dogs are lucky to have you.

Cheers,
Jay