[DuManchu]

Originally Posted by brett76

LOL

Ahhhh.. the old Glowing Noodle of Infinity. Such bold statement has never been/is constantly being made.

Wait... what?

[IdahoDoug]

As Beno points out, it is the small minority of Muslims that continue to cause problems and express hate toward the West. Unfortunately for us in the West, our media is hugely liberal which embraces a latent hatred for the West (I know, I don't understand self-hate either) so they love spreading this minority's actions around as though they represent the majority of Muslims.

For the record, Muslims have a spectrum of beliefs within their religion that ranges from secular/wester to fundamentalist/violent - not unlike other religions. Unfortunately the fundamentalists are in power in several spots and these spots are populated by a bunch of unemployed and bitter people living in abject poverty with no way out, so they're ripe for the whole "drive this TNT-laden car over to the police station and push this button for your 72 Virgin treatment" thing.

The solution? You're not going to change their minds unless you change their circumstances. So. Destroy their leaders and take over their real estate. Turn this real estate into a zone of economic development specifically designed to capture the local population's global comparative advantage of cheap laber. In other words, build assembly plants and give Achmed a freakin' job. A regular paycheck trumps a mullah's request to kill yourself every time.

Oh, wait. That's what we're trying to do in Iraq if the f@cking liberals would just stop all their roadblocks and get the hell out of the way. We could have had this process well under way by now, but like any process if you stop it halfway it doesn't appear to be working. Peace out.

DougM

[whodat]

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

As Beno points out, it is the small minority of Muslims that continue to cause problems and express hate toward the West. Unfortunately for us in the West, our media is hugely liberal which embraces a latent hatred for the West (I know, I don't understand self-hate either) so they love spreading this minority's actions around as though they represent the majority of Muslims.

For the record, Muslims have a spectrum of beliefs within their religion that ranges from secular/wester to fundamentalist/violent - not unlike other religions. Unfortunately the fundamentalists are in power in several spots and these spots are populated by a bunch of unemployed and bitter people living in abject poverty with no way out, so they're ripe for the whole "drive this TNT-laden car over to the police station and push this button for your 72 Virgin treatment" thing.

The solution? You're not going to change their minds unless you change their circumstances. So. Destroy their leaders and take over their real estate. Turn this real estate into a zone of economic development specifically designed to capture the local population's global comparative advantage of cheap laber. In other words, build assembly plants and give Achmed a freakin' job. A regular paycheck trumps a mullah's request to kill yourself every time.

Oh, wait. That's what we're trying to do in Iraq if the f@cking liberals would just stop all their roadblocks and get the hell out of the way. We could have had this process well under way by now, but like any process if you stop it halfway it doesn't appear to be working. Peace out.

DougM

X2, but one more thing needs to change over there too. The way women dress. They need some strip clubs, bikini contests and more heathen activities.

[Relix]

Originally Posted by whodat

X2, but one more thing needs to change over there too. The way women dress. They need some strip clubs, bikini contests and more heathen activities.

yup, I think we should air drop tv's with direct tv satilites attached to them with access to all of the channels so the people in those parts of the world could see how nice it is over here... I'm sure a few hours of playboy tv, MTV the Discovery Channel, the History channel and what not would make them realize, what they have isn't worth fighting for, and they should be fighting to get what we(THE WESTERN WORLD) HAS...

[IdahoDoug]

That stuff is exactly where a developing economy takes its citizens, unfortunately. Wish it were not true, but it's human nature to start consuming that type of thing. This is where the mullahs and I agree - that stuff begins the decay of essential human-ness. I suspect somewhere in their warped motives they believe keeping their people from going down that path is laudable and worth their efforts. They know with certainty that their people will get sucked into the western stuff and suffer moral decay as we have.

However, where we differ is they feel it is better to keep their people in the 14th century with all its associated health problems, poverty, abject need, suppression of basic human rights, and lack of infrastructure that keeps them from participating in the progress the rest of the world enjoys. And of course, they also believe in using death and widespread destruction as methods to accomplish it.

So on the one hand I understand what they're trying to do, but on the other hand they're trying to make decisions that their people should be allowed to do because these decisions dramatically affect their daily existence - currently miserable. I fundamentally disagree with what they're doing, and because I see the future of what they're doing as evenentually convincing ever larger numbers of Muslims that killing westerners is the only way out of their misery, I totally "get" the threat that Bush continues to warn about. I wish he would have a speech soon wherein he simply lays this out in plain language that every US citizen can understand, from Billy Bob to a wealthy liberal woman living in urban New York. Unfortunately, the PC climate precludes him from staring out of our TVs and saying "These people want to kill us and the very future of their leaders and their power hinges on convincing more and more of them that this is their only way out of their miserable existance." It's a shame, because when we entered WWII there was a speech like that from the President, basically letting everyone know about Hitler and why we needed to stop this world threat. People nodded their heads and understood because in that day a President could use plain language without a bunch of talking heads instantly attacking him and doing their best to distort it for their own motives. I feel that the lack of respect accorded US Presidents by our media (either party, BTW) has diminished the Office in such a way as to destroy the ability of a President to speak to us and to unite us. More's the pity.

If I were Bush I'd go for it, though. Just lay it out with diagrams and charts and plain talking words that anyone can understand. It would go a long way toward helping Americans understand where we are in the world, how we got here, and what our options are going forward. We've been so successful for so long that we've never as a culture needed to have this type of thinking. We need it now.

DougM

[crholliday]

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

Oh, wait. That's what we're trying to do in Iraq if the f@cking liberals would just stop all their roadblocks and get the hell out of the way. We could have had this process well under way by now, but like any process if you stop it halfway it doesn't appear to be working. Peace out.

DougM

Which liberals are you talking about? The liberal House? Liberal Senate? Oh, I know, the god damn liberal executive and his fucking liberal sec of defense?

Please.

[Zimm]

Originally Posted by crholliday

Which liberals are you talking about? The liberal House? Liberal Senate? Oh, I know, the god damn liberal executive and his fucking liberal sec of defense?

Please.

x 109018309183709813790183790183709187



heres the basics. congress passes a bill creating a lawwwwww (that would be the house and the senate)..... and the president (that would be di... errr... george w bush) signs it!!! and it gets REALLLLY simple when one frigging party controls ALLLLLL THREEEEE actors. if theres any substantive resistance to the presidents policy, it HAS to come from his own party! any more power in ones mans hands and thier WOULD be a dictatorship.

oh wait! i know!!! its clintons fault the war in iraq has a few issues!!!! sorry. i forgot. i hadnt watched fox programming for a couple days for my reeducat... errrr.... facts.

[Cruisin'Carolina]

not even going to dignify

[Zimm]

Originally Posted by Cruisin'Carolina

not even going to dignify

that would require dignity. we understand your difficulty.

[loquito]

Doug
He should give this speach,
while on a screan behind him we play the news clips of Osaama Bin Laddin and the Mula's stating in their own words Their destructive intent.
Don't any of the Libs watch PBS? PBS has even ran documentaries where Arab leaders like OBL And Mulas have called for the complete destruction of Isreal, Osamma himself stated ALL Americans "women,children" are targets, kill them where you find them.
I am paraphrazing but that is the gist of it.

I was raised by a Hippy from the 60's who fought against stereo typing, blatant racism based on race, RELIGION, National orgin,etc
When I listen to the Mid East leaders and Mulas speak in documentaries they sound just like David Duke back in his day, full of prejudice and hatred based on race nation orgin and Religion.
And as stated before
In America more folks show up to Klan rallies to protest the idiots marching. If I am to believe the info sources we have "TV, Internet, radio" most of the middle east embraces their racists.
Tim Mcvey hunted down and KILLED
abortion bombers hunted down and jailed
Klan/skinhead compound in Idaho lost in wrongful death law suit. "I Believe thats how they lost it"
White supremacy leaders in prison gang investigated, charged and given additional prison time for involvemnt in crimes from the prison.

The idiot White guys who tied up a gay guy to a fence I believe in Montana, they wer found and convicted.
The two hillbillies who grabbed the black guy of the street and tied him to the back of their truck, then drove around dragging him till his head popped off, hunted them down and sent them to prison.
I am sure this list of Assholes who did wrong and Americans bringing them to justice could be much longer.
All investigation/prosecutions done by Americans sometimes at great risks to themselves as well as their families.
Osamma is still being hidden by the People, oh and Pakistan who is our friend

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

That stuff is exactly where a developing economy takes its citizens, unfortunately. Wish it were not true, but it's human nature to start consuming that type of thing. This is where the mullahs and I agree - that stuff begins the decay of essential human-ness. I suspect somewhere in their warped motives they believe keeping their people from going down that path is laudable and worth their efforts. They know with certainty that their people will get sucked into the western stuff and suffer moral decay as we have.

However, where we differ is they feel it is better to keep their people in the 14th century with all its associated health problems, poverty, abject need, suppression of basic human rights, and lack of infrastructure that keeps them from participating in the progress the rest of the world enjoys. And of course, they also believe in using death and widespread destruction as methods to accomplish it.

So on the one hand I understand what they're trying to do, but on the other hand they're trying to make decisions that their people should be allowed to do because these decisions dramatically affect their daily existence - currently miserable. I fundamentally disagree with what they're doing, and because I see the future of what they're doing as evenentually convincing ever larger numbers of Muslims that killing westerners is the only way out of their misery, I totally "get" the threat that Bush continues to warn about. I wish he would have a speech soon wherein he simply lays this out in plain language that every US citizen can understand, from Billy Bob to a wealthy liberal woman living in urban New York. Unfortunately, the PC climate precludes him from staring out of our TVs and saying "These people want to kill us and the very future of their leaders and their power hinges on convincing more and more of them that this is their only way out of their miserable existance." It's a shame, because when we entered WWII there was a speech like that from the President, basically letting everyone know about Hitler and why we needed to stop this world threat. People nodded their heads and understood because in that day a President could use plain language without a bunch of talking heads instantly attacking him and doing their best to distort it for their own motives. I feel that the lack of respect accorded US Presidents by our media (either party, BTW) has diminished the Office in such a way as to destroy the ability of a President to speak to us and to unite us. More's the pity.

If I were Bush I'd go for it, though. Just lay it out with diagrams and charts and plain talking words that anyone can understand. It would go a long way toward helping Americans understand where we are in the world, how we got here, and what our options are going forward. We've been so successful for so long that we've never as a culture needed to have this type of thinking. We need it now.

DougM

[Cruisin'Carolina]

Originally Posted by Zimm

that would require dignity. we understand your difficulty.

Still no real answers except it is all Bush's fault? It's going to be tough to find a purpose in life in about two years

[Cruisin'Carolina]

Pakistan is NOT our friend.

[Zimm]

Originally Posted by Cruisin'Carolina

Still no real answers except it is all Bush's fault? It's going to be tough to find a purpose in life in about two years

a damn lot of it. hes the leader. he wanted the power. he got it in spades. hes had more than clinton ever did. one party rule, baby. look at the veto record. its been 6 years. did he think it was like being the prez of his frat? at what point do people stand up and admit his policy has been a short sighted hatchet job? he preached the long haul, but he sure didnt expect or plan for it.

[whodat]

Originally Posted by Zimm

a damn lot of it. hes the leader. he wanted the power. he got it in spades. hes had more than clinton ever did. one party rule, baby. look at the veto record. its been 6 years. did he think it was like being the prez of his frat? at what point do people stand up and admit his policy has been a short sighted hatchet job? he preached the long haul, but he sure didnt expect or plan for it.

I don't know, I'm pretty happy with my life and how W is doing...maybe you're just a dead ender miserable human being?

drink some more maybe the pain will go away.

[Zimm]

Originally Posted by whodat

I don't know, I'm pretty happy with my life and how .

so's corky. ever see an unhappy re-re?

corky's happy so bush is good.

how i envy the simple.

[whodat]

toynado stole zimms user/password?

[Cruisin'Carolina]

Originally Posted by Zimm

a damn lot of it. hes the leader. he wanted the power. he got it in spades. hes had more than clinton ever did. one party rule, baby. look at the veto record. its been 6 years. did he think it was like being the prez of his frat? at what point do people stand up and admit his policy has been a short sighted hatchet job? he preached the long haul, but he sure didnt expect or plan for it.

so the Bush rant is on topic how?

[crholliday]

Originally Posted by Cruisin'Carolina

so the Bush rant is on topic how?

First, since when does "on topic" matter? Second, it is in response to Doug's intellectually lazy blame of liberals for the situation in the middle east.

Clinton was a nation-builder. He was constantly attacked by the Trent Lotts and Orin Hatches for being a nation-builder. Then, GWB got elected in 2000 on a platform that he WASNT a nation-builder - unlike his liberal counterpart Al Gore.

And now it turns out that nation-building is the answer? And Liberals are the road block?

Its lazy. You can saddle liberals with many things. This is not one of them.


http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=5427

[Cruisin'Carolina]

Originally Posted by crholliday

First, since when does "on topic" matter? Second, it is in response to Doug's intellectually lazy blame of liberals for the situation in the middle east.

Clinton was a nation-builder. He was constantly attacked by the Trent Lotts and Orin Hatches for being a nation-builder. Then, GWB got elected in 2000 on a platform that he WASNT a nation-builder - unlike his liberal counterpart Al Gore.

And now it turns out that nation-building is the answer? And Liberals are the road block?

Its lazy. You can saddle liberals with many things. This is not one of them.


http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=5427

agreed, but this is a consistent theme that is getting old....

Unless you want to blame Bush for how radical clerics react with violence when they are accused of promoting....violence.

[Zimm]

Originally Posted by Cruisin'Carolina

agreed, but this is a consistent theme that is getting old....

Unless you want to blame Bush for how radical clerics react with violence when they are accused of promoting....violence.

i agree. the only thing more beat than bushes policies are the terms "radical" and "fascist" when addressing mainstream imams.



it sucks when you stick your neck out on the wrong horse. the wiggle room shrinks over time, eh?