Dumb Recovery Strap Question

greytandy · 06-02-06, 06:51 PM

With just a simple recovery strap (loops on both ends), how does one attach it to two vehicles if both vehicles have only closed towing hooks? One end is easy since you can loop the strap through it's own loop, but the other end? It would seem I'd need a D shackle or something, but isn't that a no-no? Does my question make sense? Thanks.

WES1977 · 06-02-06, 06:57 PM

i don't know how else you would do it.

greytandy · 06-02-06, 08:08 PM

Thanks. Out of what catalog/website did you get that D shackle setup?

IBCRUSN · 06-02-06, 09:13 PM

This is the least expensive D rings I found that have a good WLL (working Load Limit)

D Rings

WES1977 · 06-03-06, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBCRUSN

This is the least expensive D rings I found that have a good WLL (working Load Limit)

D Rings

that's pretty cheap

IBCRUSN · 06-03-06, 08:16 AM

it took me a while to find them but even with UPS ground they are the most competitive prices and still have the capacity that we look for.

Heffenoche · 06-03-06, 12:19 PM

I've gotten 3/4" WLL 6.5 ton shackels @ Northern Tool for $10 each. If you have one in your area it you can even save on the shipping

Rich · 06-03-06, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greytandy

With just a simple recovery strap (loops on both ends), how does one attach it to two vehicles if both vehicles have only closed towing hooks?...

Learn how to tie a bowline knot.

topend yobbo · 06-03-06, 04:54 PM

that picture is of a BOW shackle not a D shackle.

e9999 · 06-04-06, 12:14 AM

a lot of hardware store will have them

even our local OSH does...

IBCRUSN · 06-04-06, 08:13 PM

Make certain that the hardware store shackles have the WLL cast into them. I found that several local stores carried 3/4" shackles but nothing cast into them to say what their load limit was. If it's not cast in the unit don't waste your money, better to spend a few more $$ on a quality product. Hell, I won't hook my truck up to another if they are using shackles with no info cast in them. I'm not taking the chance of being on the receiving end of a 6lb. bullet heading towards me.

firetruck41 · 06-05-06, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Learn how to tie a bowline knot.

You just reduced the breaking strength of your strap to 60-70% of original

. Not sure how much worse it would be with a flat strap.

WES1977 · 06-05-06, 07:52 AM

Name: a_near1.jpg
Views: 601
Size: 37.7 KB

I found an article on that accident. The bumper on the other vehicle broke. The guy was grazed be the shackle and knocked out. He had to be taken off in a helicopter. The jolt of the break of the other bumper saved his life. He's head went forward out of the direct path.

I have been using chains after seeing that pic.

TEPUI · 06-05-06, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greytandy

One end is easy since you can loop the strap through it's own loop, but the other end?

Looping the strap through its own loop could make it very hard to untie if the pulling forces make it tight.

TEPUI · 06-05-06, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WES1977

I have been using chains after seeing that pic.

What type of chains? Never seen that...

Rich · 06-05-06, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firetruck41

You just reduced the breaking strength of your strap to 60-70% of original

. Not sure how much worse it would be with a flat strap.

Yep, all knots reduce the tensile strength of the rope or strap. So use a strap that is strong enough even with a knot. Not to hard to figure out.

WES1977 · 06-05-06, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEPUI

What type of chains? Never seen that...

I got a pretty big chain from harbor freight. Not sure of the strength of it. but it hasn't broken yet. I usally carry both a chain and strap.

Mace · 06-05-06, 10:40 AM

When chains snap they do a lot more damage than that pic..

I HATE using chains...

WES1977 · 06-05-06, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

When chains snap they do a lot more damage than that pic..

I HATE using chains...

Ok, so your saying chains stretch?

7P's · 06-05-06, 11:35 AM

Chains will break of course but I've never broke one or seen one break. They are very unforgiving if the hooks are attached wrong or attached to "flimsy" metal. I personally wouldn't use a chain of less than 70 grade and they aren't cheap. IMO Straps with shackles are far easier to use, cheaper and usually cause less damage if secured in an "unconventional" manner.

Mark W · 06-05-06, 11:41 AM

[quote=WES1977

I have been using chains after seeing that pic.[/QUOTE]

Chains? *Maybe* for towing people, not freeing mired rigs from mudholes. A chain does not serve the same purpose as a recovery stap. No stretch, no storing of energy and no shock moderation. Even a gentle yank with a chain will snap the chain or rip the attachment point off the rig. I won't even use one to tow beyond moving a rig around in the driveway.

Chains are great for rigging winch cables to boulder for an anchor, or for attaching a cable or stap to a rig with no recovery points. Other than that they have no place in vehicle recoveries.

Mark...

Mark W · 06-05-06, 11:50 AM

And yep, chains do stetch. Not to the degree that a strap does, but enough to make it jump pretty good when a link snaps.

A chain by itself will not propell itself through a rig the way the trailerball/shackle on the end of the strap did in the picture above. It an certainly give you a good whack if you are standing beside it when it lets go. Chains do'nt normally have the damage potential that a strp WITH A CHUNK OF STEEL STILL ATTACHED does. A strap by itself is not all that bad either. It doesn't have enough mass to cause a lot of damage and the drag of the air slows it quickly as well (again do to the lack of mass).

The bad situations are not usually caused by straps or chains them breaking. They are caused by the attachment points breaking off of the rig when the strap yanks on them. Then you get all the energy of a strap with a weight on the end. Attaching a chain to a strap is a problem if the chain is rigged so that it can come flying back with the strap pulling it if it breaks. The only way I use a chain and a strap together is when the chain is wrapped multiple times around a frame, axle,bumper or whatever. That way if a link does break, the chain doesn't come flying free of the rig on the end of the strap.

Mark...

Mark W · 06-05-06, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Yep, all knots reduce the tensile strength of the rope or strap. So use a strap that is strong enough even with a knot. Not to hard to figure out.

Buying and carrying a strap with a 50,000 pound capacity just to be able to have it function at 30,000 pounds is... ineffecient at best. Not to mention the difficulty of untying any knot after a good hard yank or five of them. And the reduction iun length is usually nothing to be ignored.

Carry rigging gear and don't tie knots in you straps.

Mark...

The Dude · 06-05-06, 11:59 AM

What about hooks on the end of straps???

I posted a pic of one of my "ropes" with hooks but didn't get any answers on why it was more dangerous then shackles...Is it just the potential of that hook coming off?

fourand20 · 06-05-06, 12:05 PM

thats why you place a blanket over the strap after you place tension on it BEFORE you start to pull....that way IF it breaks, the weight of the blanket will prevent it from becoming a whip.....a cheap 9 or 10 dollar furniture blanket from uhaul, wally word...ect is the best....serves dual purpose should you get stuck somewhere and its cold......

Tools R Us · 06-05-06, 04:25 PM

If you need to loop two straps together, put a towel, shop rag, branch, etc. between them, makes getting them apart much easier. Never join them with a shackle or anything heavy.

I used a chain for years, until a buddy broke his putting the end through his tailgate. It hit so hard that the tailgate was caved into the bed, when he later got a new gate it wouldn't fit due to the bed sides being pulled together! I was standing way to close and it was very violent, he was lucky the tailgate was there to take the beating.

06-02-06, 06:51 PM	#1
greytandy That's "Greyt" "Andy" Join Date: May 2006 Location: MD 'Burbs of DC TLCA# 16669 Posts: 982	Dumb Recovery Strap Question With just a simple recovery strap (loops on both ends), how does one attach it to two vehicles if both vehicles have only closed towing hooks? One end is easy since you can loop the strap through it's own loop, but the other end? It would seem I'd need a D shackle or something, but isn't that a no-no? Does my question make sense? Thanks.

06-02-06, 06:57 PM	#2
WES1977 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 1,084	i don't know how else you would do it. __________________ 1977 FJ40 Hardtop/ S-O-R’s Safari Summer Top®. Fiberglass tub. Rear Aussie Locker. 2F with at least 106,000 miles. Running Bfgoodrich MT's 33x10.5xr15 1988 FJ62 Stock 2002 UZJ-100. Stock 2003 Tacoma extcab 4x4, V6, TRD Factory E-locker Mid-Atlantic Toyota Land Cruiser Association website

06-02-06, 09:13 PM	#4
IBCRUSN . Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Dodging hail & tornadoes TLCA# 4268 Posts: 1,325	This is the least expensive D rings I found that have a good WLL (working Load Limit) D Rings __________________ 1994 80 - Some stuff Tornado Alley Cruisers - TAC Those who can, do; those who can't, criticize.

06-03-06, 08:16 AM	#6
IBCRUSN . Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Dodging hail & tornadoes TLCA# 4268 Posts: 1,325	it took me a while to find them but even with UPS ground they are the most competitive prices and still have the capacity that we look for. __________________ 1994 80 - Some stuff Tornado Alley Cruisers - TAC Those who can, do; those who can't, criticize.

06-03-06, 12:19 PM	#7
Heffenoche IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: VA Posts: 514	I've gotten 3/4" WLL 6.5 ton shackels @ Northern Tool for $10 each. If you have one in your area it you can even save on the shipping __________________ 94 FZJ80 134k Locked, ARB Front, OME heavy, Warn 12000, TJM Rear. 285 MTRs, LED's & rear cargo light. 85 FJ60 98k, ARB front, 3"lift, 32" BFG AT

06-02-06, 08:08 PM	#3
greytandy That's "Greyt" "Andy" Join Date: May 2006 Location: MD 'Burbs of DC TLCA# 16669 Posts: 982	Thanks. Out of what catalog/website did you get that D shackle setup?

06-03-06, 04:54 PM	#9
topend yobbo IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia Posts: 483	that picture is of a BOW shackle not a D shackle. __________________ 93 hzj80 Aussie spec cruiser with 9000 pound warn winch , old man emu suspension , engel fridge, ARB front & rear lockers,GME UHF 2 way and ARB compressor.

06-04-06, 12:14 AM	#10
e9999 You want to do what...? Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: PRK Posts: 10,121	a lot of hardware store will have them even our local OSH does... __________________ '97: 86K, 3xlock, Custom HD roo bar for sale, 285 MT/Rs on steelies, Hanna sliders, 851+1.5"/863/N73/N74E/SD24, ARB bull with M12, Kaymar with duals, Kaymar rack, Slee TC skid, 2m/440, more stuff, loose nut behind the wheel!) '03: 97K, the better half's... DD

06-04-06, 08:13 PM	#11
IBCRUSN . Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Dodging hail & tornadoes TLCA# 4268 Posts: 1,325	Make certain that the hardware store shackles have the WLL cast into them. I found that several local stores carried 3/4" shackles but nothing cast into them to say what their load limit was. If it's not cast in the unit don't waste your money, better to spend a few more $$ on a quality product. Hell, I won't hook my truck up to another if they are using shackles with no info cast in them. I'm not taking the chance of being on the receiving end of a 6lb. bullet heading towards me. __________________ 1994 80 - Some stuff Tornado Alley Cruisers - TAC Those who can, do; those who can't, criticize.

06-05-06, 07:52 AM	#13
WES1977 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 1,084	I found an article on that accident. The bumper on the other vehicle broke. The guy was grazed be the shackle and knocked out. He had to be taken off in a helicopter. The jolt of the break of the other bumper saved his life. He's head went forward out of the direct path. I have been using chains after seeing that pic. __________________ 1977 FJ40 Hardtop/ S-O-R’s Safari Summer Top®. Fiberglass tub. Rear Aussie Locker. 2F with at least 106,000 miles. Running Bfgoodrich MT's 33x10.5xr15 1988 FJ62 Stock 2002 UZJ-100. Stock 2003 Tacoma extcab 4x4, V6, TRD Factory E-locker Mid-Atlantic Toyota Land Cruiser Association website Last edited by WES1977; 06-05-06 at 08:07 AM.

06-05-06, 10:40 AM	#18
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,446	When chains snap they do a lot more damage than that pic.. I HATE using chains... __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

06-05-06, 11:35 AM	#20
7P's IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: South of Winnipeg Posts: 68	Chains will break of course but I've never broke one or seen one break. They are very unforgiving if the hooks are attached wrong or attached to "flimsy" metal. I personally wouldn't use a chain of less than 70 grade and they aren't cheap. IMO Straps with shackles are far easier to use, cheaper and usually cause less damage if secured in an "unconventional" manner.

06-05-06, 11:41 AM	#21
Mark W IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Greatland TLCA# 6303 Posts: 3,440	[quote=WES1977 I have been using chains after seeing that pic.[/QUOTE] Chains? Maybe for towing people, not freeing mired rigs from mudholes. A chain does not serve the same purpose as a recovery stap. No stretch, no storing of energy and no shock moderation. Even a gentle yank with a chain will snap the chain or rip the attachment point off the rig. I won't even use one to tow beyond moving a rig around in the driveway. Chains are great for rigging winch cables to boulder for an anchor, or for attaching a cable or stap to a rig with no recovery points. Other than that they have no place in vehicle recoveries. Mark...

06-05-06, 11:50 AM	#22
Mark W IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Greatland TLCA# 6303 Posts: 3,440	And yep, chains do stetch. Not to the degree that a strap does, but enough to make it jump pretty good when a link snaps. A chain by itself will not propell itself through a rig the way the trailerball/shackle on the end of the strap did in the picture above. It an certainly give you a good whack if you are standing beside it when it lets go. Chains do'nt normally have the damage potential that a strp WITH A CHUNK OF STEEL STILL ATTACHED does. A strap by itself is not all that bad either. It doesn't have enough mass to cause a lot of damage and the drag of the air slows it quickly as well (again do to the lack of mass). The bad situations are not usually caused by straps or chains them breaking. They are caused by the attachment points breaking off of the rig when the strap yanks on them. Then you get all the energy of a strap with a weight on the end. Attaching a chain to a strap is a problem if the chain is rigged so that it can come flying back with the strap pulling it if it breaks. The only way I use a chain and a strap together is when the chain is wrapped multiple times around a frame, axle,bumper or whatever. That way if a link does break, the chain doesn't come flying free of the rig on the end of the strap. Mark... Last edited by Mark W; 06-05-06 at 11:56 AM.

06-05-06, 11:59 AM	#24
The Dude IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Saskatoon, SK TLCA# 8113 Posts: 865	What about hooks on the end of straps??? I posted a pic of one of my "ropes" with hooks but didn't get any answers on why it was more dangerous then shackles...Is it just the potential of that hook coming off? __________________ Brad T 88 HJ61 "Marmaduke " 12H-T, A440, extreme valve body, PI, cable lockers, PTO winch, SOA, 2" body lift, FF, ARP studs, Longfields, 5.29s, 38x14.5R16 Toyo MTs... 78 BJ 40/42/60

06-05-06, 12:05 PM	#25
fourand20 IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Grand Forks ND Posts: 68	thats why you place a blanket over the strap after you place tension on it BEFORE you start to pull....that way IF it breaks, the weight of the blanket will prevent it from becoming a whip.....a cheap 9 or 10 dollar furniture blanket from uhaul, wally word...ect is the best....serves dual purpose should you get stuck somewhere and its cold...... __________________ 02 pewter blaZR2 60k miles 84 blue toyo FJ60 landcruiser 240k miles<<<<jeep/hummer/ford/dodge, ect recovery team member m322 ammo trailer Last edited by fourand20; 06-05-06 at 12:13 PM.