Engel vs. Coleman

Pete483 · 08-24-05, 08:57 PM

Searched, but didn't find anything on this: What exactly is the difference in performance between an ARB or Engel fridge and a Coleman plug in cooler, besides a $600 price difference?

Rich · 08-24-05, 09:01 PM

When it is hot one gets cold and the other doesn't.

Pete483 · 08-24-05, 09:12 PM

Wait, let me guess which one is which! I really don't need something like the Engel, but is the Coleman really any better than a regular cooler? If I were to put those blue ice pack things in it when I loaded is (with the blue packs cold), would it be worth the extra $40 of just a regular cooler?

dd113 · 08-24-05, 09:28 PM

Nope, coleman just lowers the interior temp below ambient temp by 30' or so while it sucks all the juice out of your system. ARB/Engle/Norcold all have compressors just like your fridge at home. No comparson with coleman.

e9999 · 08-24-05, 10:30 PM

check my recent threads on this, with numbers and all....

mabrodis · 08-24-05, 11:45 PM

A Coleman cooler is a thermo-electric cooler, which uses energy to move heat. Basically there are electric components attached to 2 aluminum chunks. On one side of these electrical parts it gets cold because heat is being moved from there to the other side, where ofcourse they get hot. When in cool mode the inside gets cooler and the outside gets hotter, when reversed just the opposite happens. The idea is cool and as far as cooling they do ok, but the catch is they use alot of power to move that heat. So let's say a Coleman one draws about 4-amps continously (my wall plug that came with mine is rated to put out 5.25A at 12V, so it must draw less than that). That is 48 watts of power it's using, but alot of that power is being used to move the heat, and in moving the heat, it generates heat, all that heat has to be removed from the heat-sink on the outside of the cooler. The actual watts of cooling power the cooler gets is probably around 15-20 watts (guessing here), so they do not cool fast and will not ever get really cold. They will cool to something like 40 degrees below ambient temperature (since the cooling is based on a temperature differential between the heat-sink on the inside of the cooler and the one on the outside of the cooler, it's just moving heat from one of those to the other).

I have a Coleman and it's ok, I used it alot at first, it would keep things cold enough that they wouldn't go bad, so I was happy. It is not a replacement for a ARB fridge by any stretch...I think mine is broken or something, doesn't really get cold much anymore, so I haven't used it recently. It's neat that it's dry, no ice/water, etc. But it's so slow to get cool that at many times I would have just preferred to buy a $1 bag of ice and call it good for a day or two. I will get an ARB fridge at some point, but a $20 cooler and a few dollars in ice is WAY cheaper than either the Coleman or the ARB, so that's what I think I'll do in the near future...

expeditionswest · 08-25-05, 07:44 AM

I am so sold on the Engels (I own two 45L units) that it is the first modification I do to a vehicle after good tires and sliders. Also, I live in AZ, so a practical way of keeping food and drinks cool is likely more important that other areas.

I have also used the thermo-electric units and the results were very dissapointing over 70 degrees ambient (they can only cool about 40 degrees below ambient)

The build quality and efficiency of the Engel (Engel, ARB, Norcold) units are without peer as well... It is worth forgoing the new aluminum wheels (or winch, etc.) and getting the fridge IMO...

freightdog · 08-25-05, 07:59 AM

Living 128 miles from town - we rely on our ARB to keep meat/seafood cold on the way home - nothing beats an ARB/Engel/Norcold unit...

If you don't have the cash for one buy a Coleman 7 day unit and pack it with ice - we used that system for years...

I got my ARB as a bonus at work for scoring a grant for $780,000 for a school district in Texas or I wouldn't have one!

wesintl · 08-25-05, 08:38 AM

I finally bit the bullet after searching for a while. They are unbelievable, I had my norcold on 2 and I have little bit of ice in my waterbottles. Like EXwest said they really need to be moved up on mod list. forget the colman 12v

firetruck41 · 08-25-05, 10:43 AM

Thread with review of Coleman thermoelectric cooler

Comparison of different fridges with actual temperature performance

norcal '99 · 08-25-05, 01:58 PM

FYI: Coleman now makes a cooler/freezer too. Not a thermoelectric.

Coleman Stirling Power Cooler

Instruction Manual

But it lists for $600!

Haven't seen any reviews on it, but for that $$$ I'd go with a tried and true ARB, Engel, etc...

expeditionswest · 08-25-05, 02:13 PM

Nice catch norcal'99!

That looks like a Wedco unit a little...

spressomon · 08-25-05, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norcal '99

FYI: Coleman now makes a cooler/freezer too. Not a thermoelectric.

Coleman Stirling Power Cooler

Instruction Manual

But it lists for $600!

Haven't seen any reviews on it, but for that $$$ I'd go with a tried and true ARB, Engel, etc...

Looks like it is made by Waeco...you can by the Waeco Coolmatic CF51 for about the same price as this smaller Coleman.

norcal '99 · 08-25-05, 04:37 PM

What's interesting to me about this Coleman is that they call it the "Stirling Power Cooler".

A Stirling Engine can be used for referigeration. And can theoretically be very efficient without the need for a compressor refergerents, etc.

I'm not sure that the Coleman is really powered by a Stirling Engine, but if it is it could be cool.

Efficient, no refrigerents to leak, etc.

The Waeco units look like they are powered by a Danfoss compressor and the ARB/Engel units are powered by the Sawfuji Swing compressors.

If anyone has any details on the Coleman, I'd be interested.
But like I said, the think the ARB/Engels are tried and true.

e9999 · 08-25-05, 05:49 PM

says don't use the Coleman Stirling at more than 12 deg inclination or it may malfunction (?) ... not good for Moab

and 4A - isn't that more than the medium size Engels?

reffug · 08-26-05, 04:11 AM

All I know is ARB had better kick ass. Or I am gonna be a little miffed.

firetruck41 · 08-26-05, 06:48 AM

30 degrees farenheit, or more, below freezing kicks ass!

FJ60Cam · 08-26-05, 07:26 AM

How long can the ARB-type fridge run with the engine off before it drains the battery to a no-start? Could you let it run overnight, or do you just turn it off and let it coast?

Heffenoche · 08-26-05, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norcal '99

I'm not sure that the Coleman is really powered by a Stirling Engine, but if it is it could be cool.

Efficient, no refrigerents to leak, etc.

It says it doesn't use refrigerants or CFCs.

freightdog · 08-26-05, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by username?

How long can the ARB-type fridge run with the engine off before it drains the battery to a no-start? Could you let it run overnight, or do you just turn it off and let it coast?

I have two yellowtop optima and have never even come close to runningeither battery down - i have a dual battery setup in the 60 so...

When I have kept the ARB in the camper - it never ran the battery down - that is an interstate deep cycle battery - and we have camped three days running the ARB/lights/water pump...it has a low amperage draw so...

reffug · 08-26-05, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firetruck41

30 degrees farenheit, or more, below freezing kicks ass!

Dats exactly what I'm hoping........................

jonb96150 · 09-02-05, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by username?

How long can the ARB-type fridge run with the engine off before it drains the battery to a no-start? Could you let it run overnight, or do you just turn it off and let it coast?

When I bought my ARB (which I consider to be just about the best money I ever spent, a lot of 3-5 day trips in the backcountry) I did a 48 hour test in the garage with a yellow top optima. I had over 11.5v after two days without charging the battery. When camping with other rigs I never turn it off, and have started the rig after two days no problem. When solo I turn it off at night though, cuz I'm a girly man! But it is really insulated and if well chilled will go all night w/o power.
As far as rugged, it's been Rubicon tested many times no problemo.
JonB

FirstToy · 09-02-05, 09:28 AM

I've been using it w/ the stock battery-on trips, I never turn it off. It never has any trouble starting cold, overnight, two days... I think the fridge is really low draw and you only need it set at 1.5 for good refridgeration (2 started freezing stuff).

Best money I've spent for camping.

expeditionswest · 09-02-05, 09:31 AM

I have had some issues with excessive amp draw in really warm weather (I live in AZ

), as the fridge runs almost constantly. One thing I found to be very helpful was one or two of the coleman gell ice packs. They do take up a little space, but make a big difference in cooling performance in hot weather.

wesintl · 09-02-05, 10:15 AM

also remember that a fridge works less when full. I usually keep mine full of water or other drinks then take stuff out to fit what I need as far as food. I have 2 yellow tops and Left the fridge on for 3 days continuous in the garage. I had pleanty of power to turn over the 3b and start. I am considering a solar charger for the batteries on a long trip. Anyone use one with dual batteries and a fridge? I noticed specific mention of not charging the battery with the fridge on. I would think the same thing applies to a solar charger??

alia176 · 09-02-05, 02:15 PM

Our Engel doubles as a garage fridge. Keeps the 86s nice and cold for those long wrenching sessions! If I used the coleman in the same capacity, then I think it'd just run forever and keep going colder and colder (open loop). Frozen pop and beer no good!

polarweasel · 09-02-05, 06:55 PM

alia: the Coleman has temperature controls on it... cool 1-3, and freeze 1-2. Check out the owner's manual.

I think it really is a Stirling engine in there, too. Someone hurry up and buy one and take it apart!

Dunbar · 09-02-05, 07:44 PM

After our 2 week 3000 vacation my wife has stopped comlaining about the frivolous purchase of my 60qt Norcold. In fact there has been no more talk about ebaying it or even removing it from the truck while in town.

I got my scratch and dent model for $649 with shipping and it rocks. It was brand new but dented up on the compressor louver cover area. I don't care because it works great.

RVexit was the outfit where I got it. They had it drop shipped directly from Norcold. Chech the other thead for the contact info.

Dunbar

08-24-05, 08:57 PM	#1
Pete483 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hopkinsville, KY TLCA# 15221 Posts: 178	Engel vs. Coleman Searched, but didn't find anything on this: What exactly is the difference in performance between an ARB or Engel fridge and a Coleman plug in cooler, besides a $600 price difference?

08-24-05, 09:28 PM	#4
dd113 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 2,820	Nope, coleman just lowers the interior temp below ambient temp by 30' or so while it sucks all the juice out of your system. ARB/Engle/Norcold all have compressors just like your fridge at home. No comparson with coleman. __________________ David Dearborn www.urbanlandcruisers.com Foreign Minister for life of the White Trash of the Elwood Chapter. I collect Hello Kitty

08-24-05, 10:30 PM	#5
e9999 You want to do what...? Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: PRK Posts: 10,203	check my recent threads on this, with numbers and all.... __________________ '97: 88K, 3xlock, Custom HD roo bar for sale, 285 MT/Rs on steelies, Hanna sliders, 851+1.5"/863/N73/N74E/SD24, ARB bull with M12, Kaymar with duals, Kaymar rack, Slee TC skid, 2m/440, more stuff, loose nut behind the wheel!) '03: 99K, the better half's... DD souped up DR650

08-24-05, 11:45 PM	#6
mabrodis Ih8mud stalker Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Castle Rock, CO Posts: 1,096	A Coleman cooler is a thermo-electric cooler, which uses energy to move heat. Basically there are electric components attached to 2 aluminum chunks. On one side of these electrical parts it gets cold because heat is being moved from there to the other side, where ofcourse they get hot. When in cool mode the inside gets cooler and the outside gets hotter, when reversed just the opposite happens. The idea is cool and as far as cooling they do ok, but the catch is they use alot of power to move that heat. So let's say a Coleman one draws about 4-amps continously (my wall plug that came with mine is rated to put out 5.25A at 12V, so it must draw less than that). That is 48 watts of power it's using, but alot of that power is being used to move the heat, and in moving the heat, it generates heat, all that heat has to be removed from the heat-sink on the outside of the cooler. The actual watts of cooling power the cooler gets is probably around 15-20 watts (guessing here), so they do not cool fast and will not ever get really cold. They will cool to something like 40 degrees below ambient temperature (since the cooling is based on a temperature differential between the heat-sink on the inside of the cooler and the one on the outside of the cooler, it's just moving heat from one of those to the other). I have a Coleman and it's ok, I used it alot at first, it would keep things cold enough that they wouldn't go bad, so I was happy. It is not a replacement for a ARB fridge by any stretch...I think mine is broken or something, doesn't really get cold much anymore, so I haven't used it recently. It's neat that it's dry, no ice/water, etc. But it's so slow to get cool that at many times I would have just preferred to buy a $1 bag of ice and call it good for a day or two. I will get an ARB fridge at some point, but a $20 cooler and a few dollars in ice is WAY cheaper than either the Coleman or the ARB, so that's what I think I'll do in the near future... __________________ "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails." -William Arthur Ward '96 4runner, 3.4L, 5sp, E-locker... '85 Mini, 2nd owner...add-ons: 31" MTRs, oil & dirt stains... '00 Echo, 1.5L of FURY!

08-25-05, 07:44 AM	#7
expeditionswest IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CA and AZ TLCA# 14910 Posts: 504	I am so sold on the Engels (I own two 45L units) that it is the first modification I do to a vehicle after good tires and sliders. Also, I live in AZ, so a practical way of keeping food and drinks cool is likely more important that other areas. I have also used the thermo-electric units and the results were very dissapointing over 70 degrees ambient (they can only cool about 40 degrees below ambient) The build quality and efficiency of the Engel (Engel, ARB, Norcold) units are without peer as well... It is worth forgoing the new aluminum wheels (or winch, etc.) and getting the fridge IMO... __________________ Scott Brady, Tread Lightly Master Trainer EarthRoamer XV-JP \| Toyota Tacoma \| Land Rover Discovery I Expedition's West Overland Journal- Expedition Magazine Expedition Portal Community

08-24-05, 09:01 PM	#2
Rich IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,794	When it is hot one gets cold and the other doesn't.

08-24-05, 09:12 PM	#3
Pete483 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hopkinsville, KY TLCA# 15221 Posts: 178	Wait, let me guess which one is which! I really don't need something like the Engel, but is the Coleman really any better than a regular cooler? If I were to put those blue ice pack things in it when I loaded is (with the blue packs cold), would it be worth the extra $40 of just a regular cooler?

08-25-05, 07:59 AM	#8
freightdog IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Navajo Rez - AZ Posts: 710	Living 128 miles from town - we rely on our ARB to keep meat/seafood cold on the way home - nothing beats an ARB/Engel/Norcold unit... If you don't have the cash for one buy a Coleman 7 day unit and pack it with ice - we used that system for years... I got my ARB as a bonus at work for scoring a grant for $780,000 for a school district in Texas or I wouldn't have one! __________________ "What ever fuckface, you cant deal with the real world or a real world job, keep hiding out on the rez living off your girl........." = priceless! as said by Calstyl2 http://www.myspace.com/cruiserhead

08-25-05, 08:38 AM	#9
wesintl IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Denver TLCA# 4180 Posts: 3,483	I finally bit the bullet after searching for a while. They are unbelievable, I had my norcold on 2 and I have little bit of ice in my waterbottles. Like EXwest said they really need to be moved up on mod list. forget the colman 12v __________________ 1964 FJ40 \| 1966 M416 \| 1976 FJ40 \| 1985 BJ70 Volvo Power\| 1997 FZJ80 \| TDI commuter car Rising Sun; Former CLCC You should be able to delete your own thread. Communists abound

08-25-05, 10:43 AM	#10
firetruck41 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Camas, WA USA TLCA# 14300 Posts: 3,581	Thread with review of Coleman thermoelectric cooler Comparison of different fridges with actual temperature performance __________________ Ben Silva IH8MUD Site Supporter since July 2004 1996 Lexus LX 450, 130k, locked, Cooper STT 285s, OME 850/863, CDL/Pin 7, 30qt freezer, 2@aux fuse blocks, aux powerpoint, 850w inverter 1998 Lexus LX 470, 139k Sold 1993 FZJ80 198k miles Sold

08-25-05, 01:58 PM	#11
norcal '99 IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 24	Coleman Cooler/Freezer FYI: Coleman now makes a cooler/freezer too. Not a thermoelectric. Coleman Stirling Power Cooler Instruction Manual But it lists for $600! Haven't seen any reviews on it, but for that $$$ I'd go with a tried and true ARB, Engel, etc...

08-25-05, 02:13 PM	#12
expeditionswest IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CA and AZ TLCA# 14910 Posts: 504	Nice catch norcal'99! That looks like a Wedco unit a little... __________________ Scott Brady, Tread Lightly Master Trainer EarthRoamer XV-JP \| Toyota Tacoma \| Land Rover Discovery I Expedition's West Overland Journal- Expedition Magazine Expedition Portal Community

08-25-05, 04:37 PM	#14
norcal '99 IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 24	What's interesting to me about this Coleman is that they call it the "Stirling Power Cooler". A Stirling Engine can be used for referigeration. And can theoretically be very efficient without the need for a compressor refergerents, etc. I'm not sure that the Coleman is really powered by a Stirling Engine, but if it is it could be cool. Efficient, no refrigerents to leak, etc. The Waeco units look like they are powered by a Danfoss compressor and the ARB/Engel units are powered by the Sawfuji Swing compressors. If anyone has any details on the Coleman, I'd be interested. But like I said, the think the ARB/Engels are tried and true.

08-25-05, 05:49 PM	#15
e9999 You want to do what...? Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: PRK Posts: 10,203	says don't use the Coleman Stirling at more than 12 deg inclination or it may malfunction (?) ... not good for Moab and 4A - isn't that more than the medium size Engels? __________________ '97: 88K, 3xlock, Custom HD roo bar for sale, 285 MT/Rs on steelies, Hanna sliders, 851+1.5"/863/N73/N74E/SD24, ARB bull with M12, Kaymar with duals, Kaymar rack, Slee TC skid, 2m/440, more stuff, loose nut behind the wheel!) '03: 99K, the better half's... DD souped up DR650

08-26-05, 04:11 AM	#16
reffug grown up MOD Join Date: May 2004 Location: 'in dat der briar patch' TLCA# 14549 Posts: 3,772	All I know is ARB had better kick ass. Or I am gonna be a little miffed. __________________ "If it wasn't a Landcruiser and hadn't been built the way it was you do realize you would be DEAD." VA State Police Officer

08-26-05, 06:48 AM	#17
firetruck41 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Camas, WA USA TLCA# 14300 Posts: 3,581	30 degrees farenheit, or more, below freezing kicks ass! __________________ Ben Silva IH8MUD Site Supporter since July 2004 1996 Lexus LX 450, 130k, locked, Cooper STT 285s, OME 850/863, CDL/Pin 7, 30qt freezer, 2@aux fuse blocks, aux powerpoint, 850w inverter 1998 Lexus LX 470, 139k Sold 1993 FZJ80 198k miles Sold

08-26-05, 07:26 AM	#18
FJ60Cam IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Memphis, TN TLCA# 16341 Posts: 961	How long can the ARB-type fridge run with the engine off before it drains the battery to a no-start? Could you let it run overnight, or do you just turn it off and let it coast?

09-02-05, 09:28 AM	#23
FirstToy tlcwagons.org Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,412	I've been using it w/ the stock battery-on trips, I never turn it off. It never has any trouble starting cold, overnight, two days... I think the fridge is really low draw and you only need it set at 1.5 for good refridgeration (2 started freezing stuff). Best money I've spent for camping. __________________ TLCA#14645 BRC#41798 I love cachapas! my wip I drink your milkshake!

09-02-05, 09:31 AM	#24
expeditionswest IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CA and AZ TLCA# 14910 Posts: 504	I have had some issues with excessive amp draw in really warm weather (I live in AZ ), as the fridge runs almost constantly. One thing I found to be very helpful was one or two of the coleman gell ice packs. They do take up a little space, but make a big difference in cooling performance in hot weather. __________________ Scott Brady, Tread Lightly Master Trainer EarthRoamer XV-JP \| Toyota Tacoma \| Land Rover Discovery I Expedition's West Overland Journal- Expedition Magazine Expedition Portal Community

09-02-05, 10:15 AM	#25
wesintl IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Denver TLCA# 4180 Posts: 3,483	also remember that a fridge works less when full. I usually keep mine full of water or other drinks then take stuff out to fit what I need as far as food. I have 2 yellow tops and Left the fridge on for 3 days continuous in the garage. I had pleanty of power to turn over the 3b and start. I am considering a solar charger for the batteries on a long trip. Anyone use one with dual batteries and a fridge? I noticed specific mention of not charging the battery with the fridge on. I would think the same thing applies to a solar charger?? __________________ 1964 FJ40 \| 1966 M416 \| 1976 FJ40 \| 1985 BJ70 Volvo Power\| 1997 FZJ80 \| TDI commuter car Rising Sun; Former CLCC You should be able to delete your own thread. Communists abound

09-02-05, 02:15 PM	#26
alia176 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Tijeras, NM TLCA# 15941 Posts: 3,380 Blog Entries: 1	Our Engel doubles as a garage fridge. Keeps the 86s nice and cold for those long wrenching sessions! If I used the coleman in the same capacity, then I think it'd just run forever and keep going colder and colder (open loop). Frozen pop and beer no good! __________________ TLCA # 15941 KE5LED Currently working PA

09-02-05, 06:55 PM	#27
polarweasel Where's mah cruzah? Join Date: May 2004 Location: Boulder, Colorado TLCA# 17558 Posts: 782	alia: the Coleman has temperature controls on it... cool 1-3, and freeze 1-2. Check out the owner's manual. I think it really is a Stirling engine in there, too. Someone hurry up and buy one and take it apart! __________________ 84 FJ60, locked and lifted and dismantled with Mercedes diesel 1982 BJ42 loud and slow daily driver on 33s Horsetooth 4-Wheelers