Battery Isolators...

[Rich]

When I set up my dual battery I will feed all loads from a Bat1, Bat2, Both, Off switch. Then I will be able to use either or both batteries to power all loads including starting and winching, and also with the same switch have a total battery disconnect.

Automatic dual battery charging, while not necessary with this setup, will be accomplished by the addition of a solenoid. A small switch will provide the capability to disable automatic solenoid based dual battery charging whenever that is desirable.

The winch will be switched by a separate On, Off switch that will be connected to the same Bat1, Bat2, Both, Off switch. The On, Off switch prevents anybody from powering the winch without being able to first get under the hood.

A small relay will disable automatic solenoid based dual battery charging when the winch switch is turned on.

I think this approach provides the most flexibility of enabling either battery to power all loads, single switch complete disconnect, manual control of battery usage, and automatic parallel charging when desired.

[Riley]

Rich, that switch for the loads will be in the engine compartment?

I'd be interested in pics and details when you're done. I think I'll start with the charging setup and then go from there.

Raven - was that crimp tool thingy expensive? where did you buy it?

[RavenTai]

you must have missed the Aircraft Spruce link abover, they have a retail store in the next town over, it was $36, you can buy from them online also but aircraft spruce is generally overpriced, if going online I am sure you can find it cheaper

[Rich]

Riley,

The battery switch will be underhood. Will be using the west marine house branded blue seas battery switches.

[Riley]

Originally Posted by RavenTai

you must have missed the Aircraft Spruce link abover, they have a retail store in the next town over, it was $36, you can buy from them online also but aircraft spruce is generally overpriced, if going online I am sure you can find it cheaper

Opps, sorry about that Raven. I did read it but it was last night and forgot you already mentioned it.

i guess I have no reason to delay this, just buy the parts & tools and get going.

[Beowulf]

Rich,

2 questions.

1. Do you have a wiring diagram you can share?

2. Why do you delete so many of your posts? You can edit a post if you don't like the wording and want to change something.

-B-

[Riley]

Originally Posted by Beowulf

2. Why do you delete so many of your posts? You can edit a post if you don't like the wording and want to change something.

-B-

I was wondering that too.... Some of the heated emails I send at work could make use of an edit feature after I hit send....

[Rich]

B

1. No wiring diagram, but I think you could work most of it out from the verbal description above.

No loads connect directly to the battery positives, all loads connect to output of the battery switch. Only the input to the battery switch connects to the battery positive terminals. Solenoid parallels batteries as you would expect, driven by alternator good wire as on George's diagram.

A simple switch interrupts the alternator good feed to the solenoid to provide manual disablement of automatic parallel charging. This could be easily installed in dash.

Output from battery switch to winch goes through another heavy duty on off switch.
A normally closed relay, installed in the feed from alternator good wire to the solenoid, is powered to open whenever the on off winch switch is turned to on, thus automatically disabling the solenoid based battery paralleling when winching. This avoids winch current draw from passing through solenoid.

If somebody can point me to a source of visio templates for automotive electical diagraming I could find time to put together a diagram.

2. Just an odd preference on my part. Guess I'm fussy that way.

[RavenTai]

not sure waht a Visio template is, but I have used Tina a virtual breadboard to make diagrams, (sorry the above one was just MS paint) the trial version does not allow you make anything complicated or save anything but that does not stop me from taking screen shots

[Beowulf]

Rich,

Here are a few templates that have most 12v DC components that I could think of but not everything. I'll try to find some more.

http://hdcruisers.angeltowns.net/Files/telec.zip
http://hdcruisers.angeltowns.net/Files/components.zip
http://hdcruisers.angeltowns.net/Files/switches.zip

-B-

[Rich]

B

Thanks, I looked at the stencils. Have you checked the embedded macros for good or evil?

[Beowulf]

Rich,

FYI, they were freebies from what appeared to be legit sites. I opened and tested them with Visio 2000 at home and Visio 2002 at work. I have virus detection on both systems. I believe them to be safe.

I also got the Visio pop-up that says those .VSS files contain macros but when I tried to view/edit the macors in those stencils there were none.

-B-

[Bro._Bullfrog]

Regarding the battery cable crimping tool, I just use my bench vise. I buy copper welding cable lugs for the appropriate size cable, usually there are a couple terminal sizes for each cable size. I trim the insulation back to the distance that the lug requires, and then squeeze it down tight. Nice tight fit and then wrap it with strechable rubber tape to insulate the joint. Voila! If you want to go belt and suspenders, heat up the lug and flow some solder in between and squeeze while it's still hot.

[polarweasel]

Originally Posted by Bro._Bullfrog

Regarding the battery cable crimping tool, I just use my bench vise.

Why bother making a questionable flat crimp like that, when hammer-operated crimping tools are so cheap? I think I paid something like $12-15 for one like this at the local NAPA... hammer crimper

Stick the cable and lug in it, whack it with a BFH, and you're good to go. The pin on mine is even calibrated to let you know when you've smashed it down enough.

[Mike S]

I have completed the dual battery install in my FJ60. I opted for stainless battery trays, a pair of Optima D31T Yellow Top batteries, and the BlueSea Automatic Charging Relay (ACR) instead of an isolator. Why?

The cost of these two solutions ( ACR vs. Isolator) is about equal, all things considered. If you use a battery switch you MUST use a 'Make Before Break' switch so that the alternator never runs without a load - even for a fraction of a second. My project costs:

Two Stainless Battery trays w/hold downs - $110
2 Optima YT T31D batts - $380
BlueSea ACR - $130
Cole Hersee SPDT rocker with LEDs - $14
100 AMP minibus (to get the driving light, radio, and fusible link wires off the main battery terminal) - $10
1/0 welding cable and misc. wiring components - $50

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by mobi-arc

We've simply designed the perverbial better mousetrap and we look forward to bringing it to market. Any comments or questions?

Scott,

It's been almost 6 months since you announced your "better mousetrap" here on IH8MUD. Has there been any change in the status?

-B-

[66fj40x2]

Not pimping anything but I got a PM from Scott about three weeks ago...The design seems to have changed a couple times but it looks really simple. There is a link in the last paragraph that may not work from my copy/paste. Scott, you bringing any of these to the Roundup? Mike

Re: mobi-isolater

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wanted to provide an update with respect to our isolator project. We've completed three prototype units and our initial stats were mis-leading.....the product is actually 50% more efficient than we anticipated. 15 to 20 millivolt drop at 250-300 amps. That's fifteen to twenty thousandths of a volt....absolutely unheard of. By end of this week, we'll complete our tweaks and send out the schematic for the initial production run...probably 50 to 100 units. As you can imagine, we're quite excited to be marketing the planet's most efficient solid-state high-current DC switch. To put things in perspective for someone who clearly understands, the POWER-GATE Isolator (or P-GATE for short), bests Hellroaring by a magnitude of no less than 30 and a package no less than half the size, Sure-Power by a magnitude in the thousands and a package no less than 1/4 the size, and mechanical contacts....well, that's like rubbing two sticks together.

Don't know if the timing of P-GATE availability will work for you, but wanted to give you an update. I've updated the physical dimensions and graphics at www.mobi-arc.com/isolatorcale.pdf and if you had to move forward and use another isolation option, then I appreciate you considering our product and apologize for the amount of time it's taken to complete it. Ultimately, we think we're bringing a fantastic product to market.

Feel free to call me if you have any questions.

Scott

[Mike S]

Scott (or anybody else)

What is the price of this marvel of technology? If it's competitive, I expect a lot of people would use it.

I have asked this question before, and have no answer yet?

Mike S

[mobi-arc]

Components are being machined and plated. All things being equal, we'll start building the pilot run of 50 units toward the end of next week. The new product line is call POWER-GATE, or P-GATE for short. So far the product line includes the P-GATE Isolator which is simply a near-perfect one-way electrical valve, Isolator/Combiner which can be used with a remote switch, a High Current Switch that can take the place of a mechanical solenoid, and a product call OR-GATE which is an OR'ing device. Current breaks with be at 100a, 150a, 200a, and 300a. Pricing has not been set but will likely range from $110 to $180 depending on the model and features. We've already received an order from a military contractor working on a Marine Corp project for half our pilot run, which is both flattering and nerve-racking as we don't want to piss-off the Marines. Sorry it's taken longer than anticipated; we accidentally developed the world's most efficient solid-state switch. As such, it was critical that we take our time ironing out efficient assembly procedures, patent work, testing, and optimising. For those who understand power, it is truly a marvel of engineering. My guess is we'll launch the new website and start selling the units shortly after my return from Moab at the end of the month. The new web domain is perfectswitch.com , but we're still working on the website so it's not up yet. If anyone has questions, 858-720-1339

[Beowulf]

How about some recommended wiring diagrams using your P-Gate for typical 4wd apps; dual batts, winch, fridge, etc.

-B-

[concretejungle]

thats awesome mobi! Congrats....now that you are going to be millionares, hook us mud boys up... perrtty please.

[Riley]

Mobi - Sounds interesting. I've got a spare battery mounted just waiting for wiring.

Can you expand on the combiner feature?

For example: on demand can I switch the spare battery into the system to help start the truck?

otherwise it simply gets charged but doesn't supply any current back to the system.

So I guess I could buy one in April. Are you going to Cruise Moab in May?

[mobi-arc]

Beowulf, I haven't put together installation schemes yet, but when we put together the manual, I'll get you a copy. We've got to sit down and think of all the ways consumers may use the devices and provide sample layouts.

Concretejungle, hardly millionairs but perhaps on the right track. As an LC guy, how could I not offer TLC owners good deal?

Riley, the isolator allows the charging of two batteries to take place. Even when you turn the vehicle off, the isolator is still functioning. The product will have a Molex connector with pin-outs for a harness that can be connected to a switch. If you are in a situation where you would like to de-activate the isolation feature by pressing a trigger in the harness, the isolator ceases to isolate and instead combines the batteries together. When the isolator is de-activated, a 90 db alarm will chirp once a minute to insure that the user is aware that your secondary battery is no longer being isolated. When might you want to combine the batteries? Self-jumping is one scenario. A second scenario would be during knarly winch pulls where the one battery is depleted and you need just a little more current to get you over the obstacle, combine the batteries to get you out of the jam. You could ultimately deplete both batteries, but with the combiner feature, you have the option of using all your battery resources, should you choose.

[Mike S]

The Dual Battery install is done...




Edited my earlier post with updated costs, etc.

[Rich]

I admire the initiative displayed by folks installing dual battery systems and at the same time cringe when they are pictured with exposed positve power terminals.

[Mike S]

The power terminals are exposed so that you can SEE them. I have fabbed a heavy poly cover piece for the mini bus to protect against accidental contact. The terminal posts have rubber caps.

Mike

[Riley]

For the 80 owners - I'd like to see how the large cable is routed between Batt_1 and Batt_2. With the rad there I'm not sure of the best place to run the cable.

Mike - Can you do a pic of the engine bay moved back a bit? Nice job by the way.

[Rich]

Riley, there is room to route wiring underneath the sheet metal in front of the top radiator tank. There is already factory wiring running through there. One consideration is that is an area that may crush in event of even a somewhat minor collision, which then raises the concern of a major short circuit. That risk in part motivates me to include high amp fuses for feeds from each battery as close to the battery as possible.