My WARN 8274 rebuild part 1.....

[flintknapper]

Originally Posted by ohrly?

hey cool, I just bought one of these:

24 volt, great running condition, 7 years old or something,

I paid $250


Just waiting to get some 5 inch channel so that i can mount it on my truck,

it was banged around in the back of my truck, only a little tiny bit, went over a hill and through a 100 meter dirt road and around town, and took it out of my truck and stood it up straight and it leaked oil everywhere, came from bottom of the motor housing area, but of course it couldnt have been from the motor because there is no oil in there,


what is my next step?

Actually, it is “possible” for you to have witnessed a leak from around the motor housing.


"IF" some oil managed to leak between the motor shaft and the inner race of the bearing (or around the mounting screws) then it could have entered the motor itself, or leaked out the Motor Vent shown here:



A more likely source of a leak however, is from the drum seal directly below the motor where the drum enters the lower case half.

The winch only has 6 ozs of oil (from the factory)….so its pretty difficult for any of it to leak out unless the winch has been on it’s side for a while.

BTW....you bought your winch for “a song”. I never find deals like that! Good on Ya!

[ohrly?]

Yah I'm so happy,

As I said, it was sitting in one position for over 2 years, then it got flopped around in my truck and leaked about 25ml maximum into my truck onto my driveway and onto some cardboard once I removed it from my truck and put it into the position it was stored at.


I have my first truck, rusty bj40 that runs strong, and this is my first major upgrade, coming next? turbo, lol.


I'll top up my oil will 80 90 heavy duty and put a smile on my face and be happy.

[saxosim]

Hi Flint,

I just wanted to say excellent write up on the rebuild and vey detailed so thanks for doing that. I have just purchased an 8274 which I have fully disassembled and am shortly going to rebuild again once I have finished cleaning it up and painting it, please could I ask if you could kindly give me some step by step instructions and images of replacing the main shaft and all the relevant gears which fit onto it and also how to test that they all work as expected once the bronze bushing is back in the case. You mention in one of your threads to test it by hand but i am not sure what it should correctly do as I have never seen one of these in operation yet. My friend removed the main shaft for me as I did not have a drift and I am not 100% sure of the re-assembly procedure. Also should there be a circlip installed on the main shaft within the winch casing (not the one at the end of the brake assembly), I have seen a few images of other 8274's with what looks like a circlip just after the intermediate gear next to the shaft where you can use a brass drift to remove it?

Also can I ask please when fitting the bronze bush and oil seal, how far into the casing should I tap the bronze bushing, and should the lip seal be flush with the outer edge of the casing?

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated please.

Kind Regards
Simon
England

[flintknapper]

Originally Posted by saxosim

Hi Flint,

Could I ask if you could kindly give me some step by step instructions and images of replacing the main shaft and all the relevant gears which fit onto it and also how to test that they all work as expected once the bronze bushing is back in the case.

Hi Simon,
First... allow me to welcome you to the forum. Simon... the main shaft (brake shaft) is one area I did not document with pictures. However, if you will look at post #50 of this thread you will see links for exploded views of all of the parts. This will be helpful in visualizing the assembly. It is really quite simple once you look at it. I will try to find a link to the main-shaft and its several parts. I have seen one elsewhere, in the past.

You mention in one of your threads to test it by hand but i am not sure what it should correctly do as I have never seen one of these in operation yet

.

Simon...you are probably making reference to where I stated I "bench tested it", meaning that before I sealed the case halves with silicone, I first applied power to the rebuilt unit to insure that all was working correctly.

My friend removed the main shaft for me as I did not have a drift and I am not 100% sure of the re-assembly procedure.

Not seeing how it all came apart sounds like a disadvantage, but actually the mechanism is very simple and can really only go back together one way (with the exception of the intermediate gear). I will search for the main shaft link I mentioned above and post it when I find it. Looking at it... is easier than having someone explain it.

Also should there be a cir-clip installed on the main shaft within the winch casing (not the one at the end of the brake assembly), I have seen a few images of other 8274's with what looks like a cir-clip just after the intermediate gear next to the shaft where you can use a brass drift to remove it?

There was not a cir-clip on mine, nor am I aware of any others I have seen or heard of. The main-shaft is held in place by the "lock-plate" see post #42. The LP holds both the drum and the main-shaft in place. You will see the locked and unlocked positions in the pics. I provided.

Also can I ask please when fitting the bronze bush and oil seal, how far into the casing should I tap the bronze bushing, and should the lip seal be flush with the outer edge of the casing?

This is an excellent question and a point that needs to be discussed. The bronze bushing needs to be driven into the bore until it just protrudes inside the case. The reason for this....is that it acts as a "thrust washer" for the intermediate gear (keeping it from rubbing the side of the case).

The lip seal, as you would expect....does fit flush with the outside of the case...and may even go a bit below flush. It must not remain above the surface of the case however, or the brake backing plate will destroy it.

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated please.

Simon, we at IH8MUD are always happy to help. Please keep us informed, and if you require assistance at any point along the way, do not hesitate to ask for help.

Kind Regards

And no less for you Sir!


Flint.

[saxosim]

Hi Flint,

Many thanks for the fast reply and the advice you have given, if you can find the link to the article you have seen regarding the main shaft that would be greatly appreciated thanks.

Thanks regarding the bushing I shall follow your advice.

Also many thanks for welcoming me to the forum too it is appreciated.

Kind Regards
Simon
England

[JoeCanadian]

I damn forgot to put my bushing it, (This is Ohrly?)

Anyways, my reverse function on my controller doesn't work. Will power wind it, but will not power wind-out. I have three wires coming out of my controller, and 3 wires going into the winch.


-support the antidisestablishment of manterianism.

[flintknapper]

Originally Posted by saxosim

Hi Flint,

Many thanks for the fast reply and the advice you have given, if you can find the link to the article you have seen regarding the main shaft that would be greatly appreciated thanks.

Thanks regarding the bushing I shall follow your advice.

Also many thanks for welcoming me to the forum too it is appreciated.

Kind Regards
Simon
England

Hello Simon,

I did find the link I alluded to yesterday, here it is:
Warn 8274 winch brake rebuild

It is not an instruction manual, nor all inclusive, but it does show the brake shaft broken down.

Hope this helps. Please post back if you have questions.

Flint.

[saxosim]

Hi Flint,

Thanks for the link that is great. Do you know what it is best to clean up the main shaft to get the surface rust off with and also what am I best using to clean up the outer brake discs so they look nice and silver again. I don't really have access to a shot blaster and also i did not want to sand the light rust off the main shaft just incase it damages anything. the rust is only on the exposed end which sits out of the winch where the brake sits on and the circlip is fixed. When i say surface rust it is only the same as the level the guy in the article you kindly linked has on his - very light.

Thanks
Simon

[flintknapper]

Originally Posted by saxosim

Hi Flint,

Thanks for the link that is great. Do you know what it is best to clean up the main shaft to get the surface rust off with and also what am I best using to clean up the outer brake discs so they look nice and silver again.

I used 150 grit 2" wide "crocus cloth" to remove the rust and polish the main shaft.

As for the other parts, I media blasted them...and there is no better way to do this. I suppose one could use a wire brush on a drill and eventually remove the rust, but it would be labor intensive and difficult to reach some areas of the parts.

I don't really have access to a shot blaster and also i did not want to sand the light rust off the main shaft just incase it damages anything.

You won't damage the shaft by lightly sanding off surface rust, it is a hard material and doesn't cut easily, so reducing the diameter significantly is unlikely.

the rust is only on the exposed end which sits out of the winch where the brake sits on and the circlip is fixed. When i say surface rust it is only the same as the level the guy in the article you kindly linked has on his - very light.

Light surface rust should come off pretty easily....but will form again quickly if you don't paint (or prime it) soon afterward.

If you could find someone with even a small cabinet blaster...they should able to make short work of the few parts you have that need cleaning. If these services are unavailable to you....then a brass brush on a drill will suffice if you have the time and dedication.

Keep us updated!

Flint.

[mkaustin]

Flint,
Thanks for the link to the brake rebuild. I've been fighting the brake assembly on my winch for over two weeks. I've had a 5-ton three jaw puller on it for over a week and can not get anything to budge. I've tried heating the outer brake hub while it's under pressure and still can not get anything to budge. I doubt that I heated it up enough. I'm concerned of warping the hub.
I'm considering at punch point and a BFH on the drift keys. That's the only thing that I can think of to get something moving in the assembly to get this thing to come apart.
Any ideas from any others??? I'd like to be able to put this thing on the truck, but can get it apart to finish the rebuild.
Thanks for any advise.

[flintknapper]

Originally Posted by mkaustin

Flint,
Thanks for the link to the brake rebuild. I've been fighting the brake assembly on my winch for over two weeks. I've had a 5-ton three jaw puller on it for over a week and can not get anything to budge. I've tried heating the outer brake hub while it's under pressure and still can not get anything to budge. I doubt that I heated it up enough. I'm concerned of warping the hub.
I'm considering at punch point and a BFH on the drift keys. That's the only thing that I can think of to get something moving in the assembly to get this thing to come apart.
Any ideas from any others??? I'd like to be able to put this thing on the truck, but can get it apart to finish the rebuild.
Thanks for any advise.

Wow!

Sorry yours is being so "contrary".

You have taken all reasonable steps and precautions, so now its time to drift out the keystock. Either they are rusted to the shaft and disc or they have a nick or something on them jamming them.

If you can find a bronze/brass drift punch (instead of steel) that won't "swell" the end of the keystock when you hit it...then that is what I'd try next. Moderate heat applied the disc beforehand may help some, but it sounds like a rust issue...and direct force to the keystock is your answer.

Keep us posted. I know it must be frustrating.

[mkaustin]

Thanks Flint',
I'll pick up a brass punch. The punch that I had in mind is steel. I wasn't considering the damage to the drift key.
I'm almost to the point of drilling out the drift key if the BFH does not work.

Thank for all the advise.

[ohrly?]

Originally Posted by JoeCanadian

I damn forgot to put my bushing it, (This is Ohrly?)

Anyways, my reverse function on my controller doesn't work. Will power wind it, but will not power wind-out. I have three wires coming out of my controller, and 3 wires going into the winch.


-support the antidisestablishment of manterianism.

Any ideas guys?

[Niner]

Reverse solenoids dirty or malfunctioning.

[flintknapper]

Originally Posted by ohrly?

Any ideas guys?

Well....on the 8274 it could be a number of things, but lets start with the simple stuff and systematically diagnose it.

First, pull the solenoid pack cover and make certain that all connections are clean....and that the wiring is routed like this:


After you have completed that task, if you still have the problem (won't power out), then we need to check your hand controller (a common problem item).

The easiest way to check the hand controller is to borrow a "known to be good" unit from someone, hook it to your winch (can be 3 or 5 pin...doesn't matter) and try it. If it works...then the hand controller is your problem.

If you don't have access to another hand controller...then you will need to check yours for continuity through the switch and across the pins.

To do this with a 5 pin unit (what most of have these days), set your multimeter on the "ohm" feature. With the 5 pin HC plug facing you (looking down into it) you will notice a "keyway" at the top. We will call this 12 O'Clock.

Place one probe of the MM on the pin at 2 O'Clock (this is your hot wire) and the other probe on the pin at the 6 O'clock position. Toggle the switch downward (as if to power in) and check for continuity. If have cont. then leave the one probe at the 2 O'Clock position and place the other at the 10 O'Clock position (power out).

As before, toggle the switch upward (as if to power out) and note if there is continuity. If there isn't...then something in your hand controller is at fault. If it does show cont. then we have proven the hand controller to be good and can move on to the wires from the receptacle to the solenoids.

We will check them individually for continuity (insuring there are no breaks in the wires). If the wires check out O.K., then the next step will be to test the solenoids.

Start with this...and let me know what you find.

Remember: Step one is to clean all connections and to make certain the wiring is run correctly.

This is what the backside of the solenoid cover (with receptacle) should look like for a 3 wire set up.

[saxosim]

Hi Flint,

Hope you are well?

I have hit a dilema, the casing has just come back from powder coating and looks great, the only snag is the needle bearing inside the lower case has seezed with sand from shot blasting, I am afraid I forgot to take it out and didn't think about the effects on it. I am going to replace it and see it as a replaceable part but does anyone know how to remove it. Is the cup on the outside of the casing part of it and do you just tap it through? I guess it goes from the outside in becase there is a lip on the inside edge of the bearing inside the casing.

Thanks, any help would be appreciated, I can't believe I was daft enough to leave the needle bearing in

Thanks
Simon

[flintknapper]

Originally Posted by saxosim

I have hit a dilema, the casing has just come back from powder coating and looks great, the only snag is the needle bearing inside the lower case has seezed with sand from shot blasting, I am afraid I forgot to take it out and didn't think about the effects on it.

As long as the needle bearings were not "rusty" (in need of replacement) then there is no reason to remove the bearing. In the future...stuff the bearing with a piece of oil soaked rag in order to keep "most" of the blasting media out.

I am going to replace it and see it as a replaceable part but does anyone know how to remove it. Is the cup on the outside of the casing part of it and do you just tap it through?

The "plug/cap/cup" on the outside of the case is not part of the bearing. It is held in place by means of an "interference fit".

So...yes it can be tapped out...but let me warn you..there is a good chance you will deform it in doing so. I would not expect to be able to reuse it...and I don't see the part represented in any of my parts diagrams.

I guess it goes from the outside in becase there is a lip on the inside edge of the bearing inside the casing.

Yes, a new bearing would normally be installed from the outside. Also, you have correctly noted that the bearing lip protrudes into the casing a small amount in order to act as a "thrust washer" for the shaft (see post #37). This is a common theme on this winch and we see the same practice used for the bronze bushing on the brake shaft as well as the bushing for the drum.

Thanks, any help would be appreciated, I can't believe I was daft enough to leave the needle bearing in

No need to despair Simon, even though I placed a rag inside my bearing when blasting the housing....I still experienced some contamination.

My bearing wasn't fully "seized" as you describe, but very nearly so.

The good news is: As long as your needle bearings are not rusty or otherwise worn beyond usefulness, then we can get the blasting media out (I did).

Logic tells us that if the media was able to get "in" then it must be able to come "out".

I was able to accomplish this using compressed air, but I suspect a high pressure stream of water would work too.

First you have to create a "void" by which the particles can escape. I did this using an ordinary toothpick that I shaved down slightly. You can create a fairly decent "gap" between two of the needle bearings if you force a toothpick between them.

Then.. simply apply compressed air (watch your eyes...as everything will come directly back out of the bearing bore).

Remove the toothpick, rotate the bearings a little and repeat until you get free movement.

Once you get free movement you will no doubt still feel the bearings "grinding" a little. At this point... I used a light oil (Marvel Mystery Oil) and completely soaked the needle bearings. This caused the remaining grit to clump..and the oil helped to carry out the remainder with a blast of air. It's messy though, I have to warn you.

So, you'll have to weigh the trouble/effort of salvaging your present bearing against the cost, parts availability, and labor of doing a replacement.

I spent perhaps 10 minutes cleaning mine up, but... I had a compressor and everything else needed.

Hope this helps, sorry for the length.

Flint.

[saxosim]

Hi Flint,

Thanks for the advice on the needle bearing. I tried to clean it using your approach but unfortunately it was too seized to do any good and I could not save this bearing. A friend of mine helped me to remove the old bearing today and we have fitted a brand new one in its place.

A few of the Warn sellers here in England I spoke to have never needed to replace a needle bearing before because they are pretty much indestructable as i understand unless you do what I did and fill it with media sand. If anyone needs advice on removing this bearing and refitting please let me know as we found a great method that took very little time and put no stress on the casing.

He also kindly used his digital calipers to help me set the lower drum bushing to .190 as required. We used a little threadlock material to hold it in place (recommended by a Warn seller in the UK), what did you use to hold your bushing in place Flint? Also does it matter if it moves at all once the drum is in and working as it won't really be able to go anywhere I guess.

I have painted the drum tonight with black Hammerite satin black spray paint and it looks great and like new. I am wondering if it is worth spraying a clear satin laquer on top to help protect the finish but i am not sure yet. It really depends if i can afford synthetic winch rope or if I go with the standard steel cable route. I will definately use the laquer with the steel cable to help it wear a little better.

Just the motor casing to spray now next week and re-assembly can commence at last.

Thanks, I shall post a picture of it once it is all finished.

Regards
Simon

[flintknapper]

Originally Posted by saxosim

Hi Flint,

Thanks for the advice on the needle bearing. I tried to clean it using your approach but unfortunately it was too seized to do any good and I could not save this bearing. A friend of mine helped me to remove the old bearing today and we have fitted a brand new one in its place.

Excellent! You are now that much closer to having your winch rebuilt and you will have full confidence that the new bearing will give good service.

If anyone needs advice on removing this bearing and refitting please let me know as we found a great method that took very little time and put no stress on the casing.

Simon, if you don't mind taking the time to document the procedure, we would all love to hear about it. It would also be very helpful for anyone else needing to replace the needle bearing.

With your participation..and that of others, we can assemble one of the better "rebuild" threads available. Anything you can add here will be greatly appreciated.

He also kindly used his digital calipers to help me set the lower drum bushing to .190 as required. We used a little threadlock material to hold it in place (recommended by a Warn seller in the UK), what did you use to hold your bushing in place Flint? Also does it matter if it moves at all once the drum is in and working as it won't really be able to go anywhere I guess.

I did not use any thread-locker on mine (not that it hurts anything). Mine was a fairly snug fit...and as you say, it really can't go anywhere.

The .190 measurement is not ultra critical IMO.

It is given..so that the correct amount of "lip" protrudes into the case to act as a thrust bearing for the drum gear and also to establish the proper amount of "crush" for the lip seal on the drum. The only way it could move...would be if the lock-plate somehow lost contact with the drum and brake-shaft (pretty much impossible).

I have painted the drum tonight with black Hammerite satin black spray paint and it looks great and like new. I am wondering if it is worth spraying a clear satin laquer on top to help protect the finish but i am not sure yet.

I did not clearcoat the drum on mine....as I chose to use steel cable...and it will eventually wear through the black epoxy paint anyway. I did clearcoat everything else except the motor and solenoid cover.

Just the motor casing to spray now next week and re-assembly can commence at last.

You are making good progress!

Thanks, I shall post a picture of it once it is all finished.

We are happy to help in any way that we can...and we await your "finished project" pictures.



Flint.

[saxosim]

Hi Flint,

Thanks for all of your advice so far I am at last finding time to re-assemble my winch after a break from it for a few weeks. I have re-installed the lower drum tonight with no issues with the larger lip on the main gear facing inwards towards the brake side of the casing (facing away from the drum) as you have pictured but i am a bit unsure with the main shaft re-assembly so was hoping for your advice please.

Firstly does it matter if the cam gear is in the open or fully closed position when placing the intermediate gear back on top of it and sliding the shaft through into position. It seems to naturally close anyway when sliding the gear into position. Also am I correct in positioning the intermediate gear so that the side with the larger lip is facing the brake side of the case? Sorry to ask trivial type questions but after all of the work i have put into the refurbishment i don't want to damage anything now. Also should i put any thread lock on the brass bushing which is tapped back into the case around the main shaft before fitting the lip seal or just lightly grease it?

Thanks, regarding the needle bearing replacement i will place a step by step guide once I have finished rebuilding the winch plus some pictures of the rebuild.

Thanks Flint,

Kind Regards
Simon

[flintknapper]

Originally Posted by saxosim

Hi Flint,

Thanks for all of your advice so far I am at last finding time to re-assemble my winch after a break from it for a few weeks. I have re-installed the lower drum tonight with no issues with the larger lip on the main gear facing inwards to