80 Series Fuel Injector Removal & Cleaning

TOY350 · 01-15-09, 03:29 PM

Yep, my mileage has been steadily slipping and this has been on my list for over a year. I am going to pull my injectors and get them sent to RC Engineering for cleaning and before/after flow rate readings. I will be picking up all my gaskets/seals for the job next week and will probably tackle it late next week/weekend. I plan on doing my fuel filter at the same time, especially since this new fuel we have is cleaning sediments/deposits from our tanks and lines and sending them to the filter.

I don't necessarily need help but am letting you know any and all are welcome to help and/or observe if they want. I will post up my exact date once I get my materials and the time frame figured out. I am guessing this sites in between a

and

job.

tblume · 01-15-09, 04:16 PM

knoll0351 · 01-16-09, 02:55 PM

You know I'll be there....and may have a couple of monkeys to consume said bannanas

TOY350 · 01-23-09, 12:32 PM

Thinking I might do the removal Sunday. I will post up for sure soon. I have all the parts and have been reading the FSM, it's more involved that I though of course.

gnob · 01-23-09, 04:46 PM

do you have to pull the upper plenum?

if so have fun...

TOY350 · 01-23-09, 08:21 PM

I believe so, I will be reading it thoroughly this weekend.

retrofive · 01-23-09, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tblume

x2 hehehe. If I can; sunday I would love to join. I have one work thing to do; but can take care of it before or after.

TOY350 · 01-23-09, 11:51 PM

I am moving the banana ratings to between

and

now! Still waiting to set Sunday in concrete.

knoll0351 · 01-24-09, 10:08 PM

If it's tomorrow in the afternoon I'll have both my monkeys with me...

TOY350 · 01-24-09, 10:22 PM

Shooting for tomorrow (Sunday) probably at noon until it's done. Again, I probably won't need any wrenching help but you are welcome to oversee the process. I will have to take pics as I disassemble so I know what hoses go where and maybe even label things as they come off.

You can call, the house phone is listed in the book and is listed under JSC chapter in your Toyota Trails.

Ebag333 · 01-25-09, 06:08 PM

G here's a thread I found with the part number:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...rt-number.html

P/N: 25870-66011

Some random EGR threads:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...sts-p0401.html
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...l-vsv-mod.html

TOY350 · 01-25-09, 07:48 PM

Thanks Gabe, and like you said I can't figure out the reason for the switch to a blue top one. I guess I will put mine back together as is since I'm not throwing a code, but I don't think my EGR Vacuum Modulator is working correctly. I would hate for it to be causing a continuous EGR open system since the carbon build up is really bad IMO. I am trying to figure out if the modulator fails if that will cause the EGR to remain open or not to open.

Some pics to follow.

TOY350 · 01-25-09, 08:25 PM

A big thanks to Al for coming by; it took my dad, Al and I about 5 hours for the removal. Had to take the hood off and I was underneath a few times while they were guiding the socket onto bolts from my 4 extensions.

knoll0351 · 01-25-09, 08:43 PM

Sorry I didn't come by man, I was on monkey duty all day and figured bringing them with me would cause more delays.

TOY350 · 01-25-09, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knoll0351

Sorry I didn't come by man, I was on monkey duty all day and figured bringing them with me would cause more delays.

No probs, with garage warm and closed there wasn't much room for more than the 3 of us.

gnob · 01-25-09, 09:19 PM

most of the egr mods i have seen on toys use exhaust back pressure to close the necessary port for EGR operation, so odds of a stuck open situation would be slim to none.

Heron · 01-25-09, 09:35 PM

I was thinking that a monkey might be more flexible and able to reach some of the fasteners without all the groneing and moaning we made.

Ebag333 · 01-25-09, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnob

most of the egr mods i have seen on toys use exhaust back pressure to close the necessary port for EGR operation, so odds of a stuck open situation would be slim to none.

I've read of them failing open. Maybe only once or twice, but I know I saw it happening somewhere on an 80....

TOY350 · 01-25-09, 10:27 PM

Here's some shots of the upper air intake, very carbon fouled and wet with fuel. Running a finger down through it and the rubbing fingers together gives the exact feeling of sand.

Ebag333 · 01-25-09, 10:53 PM

Now that you've gone through all the hassle of cleaning that up, you should do this:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...n-control.html

That should help significantly with that buildup.

While you have that torn all apart are you going to do anything with the wiring harness to prevent the damage people sometimes get?

Kief · 01-25-09, 10:54 PM

I am curious as to what type of fuel and also what type of oil you use.
Do you think a fuel additive might reduce this type of build up.
Carbon means burnt fuel or burnt (partially) oil/ blow by. Oil can also vaporize or the lighter components tend to, like when I worked in a fast food restaurant I went home as greasy as a french fry. Synthetic oil is more stable at higher temps.
I would think the hotter gases condense in the intake chamber forming the hard carbon deposits. It makes me wonder how the head/valves are doing. That would take me back to wondering if an additive would clean that up vs. tear down/does it really matter.
I wonder as well if the PO used a cheap oil.

Ebag333 · 01-25-09, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kief

Carbon means burnt fuel or burnt (partially) oil/ blow by.

I'm 99% sure that this is caused (mostly) by the PCV and EGR.

The PCV dumps oil right into the intake, and the EGR does the same for the unburnt exhaust.

While the PCV is easy to put a catch filter on (see the link two posts up), you can't really do the same on the EGR. Some people (like Beno) have removed it completely, but then you have to deal with a CEL that our NA spec ECU's will throw.

Beno considered wiring in a resistor to mimic the EGR, or tracking down a non-NA spec ECU. Not sure what he's done with it, if anything.

He doesn't much care as he's not in an area that has emissions. For most of us in the valley, we're not that lucky. (And if you get caught, it's something like $10 grand per infraction.)

One benefit of removing the EGR is that it reduces temps in cylinder 6 significantly. Some people have speculated that this may be the cause of HG failure, as it's typically cylinder 6 that fails.

TOY350 · 01-25-09, 11:22 PM

The catch can would be nice but I'm not addressing that as of now. Maybe I will check out Gabe's first and then have him help me with mine.

I use Castrol Syn-Blend for my oil. The PO had services done at Toyota in WA, I called the dealership and got the service records via my vin back to 52K not sure on the first 50K though.

I use 87 Shell gas 99% of the time. Shell card with 5% gas purchase rebate.

Here is my speculation as to what is going on. I think I am getting poor performance from my injectors (will have data this week) which is causing an inefficient combustion sending some raw fuel along with higher than normal contaminants out the exhaust system which in turn are being fractionally returned to the intake system via the EGR system.

I have tracked mileage since I bought this rig and have watched it slowly decrease over time from 9-11 mpgs to the point now I am averaging between 8-10 mpgs depending on driving conditions. Interesting too is that this engine has been opened up before. The intake had been removed previously, the PHH had been replaced and the freeze plug below the oil filter had been replaced. I haven't figured out whether the head gasket has been done and the paperwork from the dealership doesn't make reference to any type of engine overhaul. But my records only go back to 9/99 and 52K miles.

Ebag333 · 01-25-09, 11:54 PM

One other thought on the PCV catch can....

Turbocruiser believed that after adding the catch can the carbon that was being added via the EGR system just blew through. Without the oil being dumped into the intake, there was no "glue" to hold the carbon together and cause the buildup.

The oil that's dumped in through the PCV is rather nasty and dirty, so it makes sense that it could provide a base for the carbon to stick to the sides rather than just blowing through. Certainly your photo looks that way, just pure carbon buildup should be more of a dry powder, and wipe off easily (like what Tyler and I saw in our EGR vacuum modulator).

Big-R has an oil/air separator designed for a diesel tractor. It might be way too big for what I need...but I like overkill.

knoll0351 · 01-26-09, 12:04 AM

Hey a few years back when I upgraded the motor in my street rod (yes that one) the studies showed that polishing ports was actually less eficient that the air and fuel neaded to mix prior to hitting the combustion chamber for maximum eficiency...just an observation. ...from the sand paper coment.

jamister1 · 01-26-09, 09:01 AM

A way of removing those deposits is with Sea foam. You buy it at your local automotive store and put it in your intake with the engine running. It's supposed to work really good although I've never tried it.

Ebag333 · 01-26-09, 09:35 AM

Yup. Just do it outside, and you might want to warn the neighbors so they don't call the fire department.

Some people have theorized that doing this can knock deposits loose and do more damage than good. *shrug*

TOY350 · 01-26-09, 10:49 AM

Ya, I have been putting more thought into the catch can since I have 3 days of waiting now for my injectors.

Ebag333 · 01-26-09, 10:53 AM

I'm planning on doing my catch can when I get the replacement PVC hose from cdan.

Not sure where I'm going to mount it or route it yet. Don't want to put it near the exhaust, so it may go on the (already crowded) drivers side.

gnob · 01-26-09, 11:42 AM

garrett did you ship your injectors?
last i used the place in medford across from costco.
i think its oregon fuel injection