80 Series Fuel Injector Removal & Cleaning

[TOY350]

I heard about them but ya I already shipped them. I should have researched the local shop to see if they give read outs of before and after because I'm really curious to see if they were messed up to begin with or not. I wanted some data behind the process. I should have them back by Friday and I will post up the results of the before and after tests. The real test will be "feeling" it while driving (although no technical data will be available!) and the fuel mileage over the next few tanks.

Now back onto the catch can thing. I was thinking that if the oil wasn't present to capture the carbon and place along the inside of the intake chamber then most of the carbon will be entering the whole system: valves, rings and other things in there. Maybe the oil trapping the deposits is more beneficial than throwing them back through the engine? Any thoughts on this one? Where's Curtis, he likes getting into argumentative discussions!

[Ebag333]

Originally Posted by TOY350

Now back onto the catch can thing. I was thinking that if the oil wasn't present to capture the carbon and place along the inside of the intake chamber then most of the carbon will be entering the whole system: valves, rings and other things in there. Maybe the oil trapping the deposits is more beneficial than throwing them back through the engine? Any thoughts on this one? Where's Curtis, he likes getting into argumentative discussions!

I think Curtis is busy on chat.


Anyway, the carbon is going through the system one way or another. My thought is that the oil will bind it together, meaning instead of a fine powder you have a sand quality to it.

Turbocruiser tore his TB apart like 10k miles after doing the catch can, and found instead of the sandy/gritty like quality that you see on yours he had a fine powder/dust covering everything, which you could take your finger and wipe right off. I'm assuming that's being fed in from the EGR, which he didn't block off.

I guess it's what you'd rather have going into your engine, chunks of carbon glued together with oil, or smaller/finer particulates?

The theory of the oil gluing the carbon to the walls is a nice one, but I don't think that accounts for more than a small fraction of whats going through there.

[knoll0351]

The cumbustion chamber will eat up whatever is blown into in, and then just spit it out the tail pipe. For the most part. little things like screws washers and the like are a very different story

[gnob]

the PCV and EGR are used stricktly for emissions purposes.
if the ECU wont code there is no harm in losing them both.
you are going to end up with carbon one way or another in there.
and you still may end up with some gum from fuel too.

[Ebag333]

The EGR will throw a code, 100% sure on that (unless you source a non-NA spec ECU).

Not sure about the PCV. Some people have suggested that you could simply vent it ala an old muscle car with no problems, as long as there's a valve to maintain some pressure.

[TOY350]

I don't think my EGR vacuum modulator is working. Called Wheeler and they don't stock it plus it is the blue top now. $68 for it. All I want to do is find a working one and plug the holes to the throttle body with my fingers and blow through the vent that goes to the egr valve and see if the pressure is released through the cap like the FSM shows, mine doesn't. I don't want to replace it since I haven't thrown a code but I do want to know if it is working or not. Anyone willing to pull theirs and do a blow test

[Kief]

If my 93 has one you're welcome to try it.. how hard is it to get out and where is it?

[TOY350]

Totally easy, it unclips and they aren't any bolts. 4 vacuum lines coming off it that you don't want to mix up and clip holding it right next to the EGR valve at the back of the intake by the firewall. I will post up a pick and scan the FSM test tonight. Thanks.

[TOY350]

Here it is only seconds later The modulator has the GREEN top, be careful not to mix up the two side by side lines that run to the throttle body. FSM scan to come later.

[TOY350]

FSM instructions:

[Ebag333]

Originally Posted by TOY350

Anyone willing to pull theirs and do a blow test

Pulled mine and tested it.

Not sure I'd say it blows "freely" as the FSM states, but it's kinda hard to get good pressure on it. Air certainly moves through there.

You doing the FSM test right? It's somewhat confusing and I had to read it over about 5 times before I figured it out. Plug the two paired tubes, blow in the single one, and see if air moves out the bottom.

[CJF]

Main way the modulator fails:

If you can blow/suck any air at all through the big bottom port, the diaphragm is busted and the modulator's shot.

Curtis

[CJF]

Originally Posted by TOY350

...Curtis...

Originally Posted by Ebag333

...Curtis...

...

[Ebag333]

Originally Posted by CJF

Main way the modulator fails:

If you can blow/suck any air at all through the big bottom port, the diaphragm is busted and the modulator's shot.

Curtis

You mean if you can blow the air UP through the bottom port, right?

The FMS test has you blowing air DOWN out of it.

[TOY350]

The large bottom port I can blow in or suck through and hear the diaphragm move up and down but I can not get air past it which is good.

Like Gabe said I was plugging the 2 ports on the one side and trying to blow through the single side and not doing anything with the large port on the bottom. I can not blow through the single side with the other 2 ports plugged off and I think I should be able to get air to escape through the filter media and cap, but I can't.

[CJF]

Originally Posted by Ebag333

You mean if you can blow the air UP through the bottom port, right?

The FMS test has you blowing air DOWN out of it.

On a 91, at least:

Remove the modulator. Stick your mouth on the bottom port (the one that goes to the EGR tube (the tube that runs from the exhaust manifold to the EGR valve)). Should neither be able to blow nor suck air through it.

I just now re-tried it on mine to make sure; the old one (couple years ago) was shot and let air/exhaust through.

Curtis

[Ebag333]

Try taking the filter media out, and then repeat.

Part of that media is pretty thick and hard, and maybe that's plugged up....

[CJF]

Originally Posted by Ebag333

Try taking the filter media out, and then repeat.

Part of that media is pretty thick and hard, and maybe that's plugged up....

That's a pretty good point...

*ANY* carbon fouling in the foam filter is another sign the diaphragm's shot.

[CJF]

Thick, hard, suck, blow, mouth, orifice...



What??

[Ebag333]

You forgot "plugged up".

[TOY350]

Well I don't know hard you guys suck or blow but I can't get anything thru the single side port by blowing in it while the other 2 are plugged. Unplug the other two and I can blow thru it. I can suck threw it no problem with or without the other 2 plugged. This is without the cap or filter media. Double checked large port on bottom and can not get air to flow past it.

[Ebag333]

Yup. Failed then. Go get the new blue top from cdan, and call it good.

[tblume]

to muddy the waters;

when I had the CRD Heep a guy posted on the board there about a "sprinkler timer circuit" that told the EGR and ECU that both were functioning properly while the EGR did nothing and the ECU did not throw a code.
very tricky mod, not even a tiny bit legal.
It involved fabbing a PCB per a diagram from a kit that another member sourced, splicing it into the factory harness, but it worked very well, cured all of the drivabillity and trans hunting problems that caused a lot of those guys to buy transmissions and torque converters when the problem was that the EGR told the engine to do one thing and the transmission CPU never got the message.

anyone make a similar "fooler" on the big board?

the thing with the soot and oil going into the CRD was a bit bigger because of the VGV turbo, intercooler, etc. etc....
but the key thing is soot and stuff going into your intake, wearing out rings and valves premeturely yes?

if there is a fooler in kit or plan form I'll be the first to make and install one, just need to track one down, the CRD crowd was full of electrical engineers and computer wizards so it was a natural there; I assume with the size of the 'MUD world there must be a couple big brains here.

[Ebag333]

Seems easier to source a non-NA spec ECU.

[tblume]

probably right, what could that cost? $100, $500?

[Ebag333]

Not a clue.

[CJF]

Originally Posted by tblume

to muddy the waters;

when I had the CRD Heep a guy posted on the board there about a "sprinkler timer circuit" that told the EGR and ECU that both were functioning properly while the EGR did nothing and the ECU did not throw a code.
very tricky mod, not even a tiny bit legal.
It involved fabbing a PCB per a diagram from a kit that another member sourced, splicing it into the factory harness, but it worked very well, cured all of the drivabillity and trans hunting problems that caused a lot of those guys to buy transmissions and torque converters when the problem was that the EGR told the engine to do one thing and the transmission CPU never got the message.

anyone make a similar "fooler" on the big board?

the thing with the soot and oil going into the CRD was a bit bigger because of the VGV turbo, intercooler, etc. etc....
but the key thing is soot and stuff going into your intake, wearing out rings and valves premeturely yes?

if there is a fooler in kit or plan form I'll be the first to make and install one, just need to track one down, the CRD crowd was full of electrical engineers and computer wizards so it was a natural there; I assume with the size of the 'MUD world there must be a couple big brains here.

Very simple version of this in 80's tech.

Search threads started by "Bear80"

Curtis

[Ebag333]

Been researching this. Very interesting.

First, what it does:

Originally Posted by RavenTai

EGR only operates at mid throttle, via my tests the peak being wile riding at steady speed slighlty dowhill

It does not oprate at all at idle or WOT,

The porpose of EGR is to add a inert filler (exhaust gasses) to the combustion chamber to keep the air temperature below 2500 degree's, at that temp nitrogen (78% of air) swaps from inert gas to an chemically active and can combine with oxygen to form NO or NO2

NO and NO2 are harmless by themselves but can combine with other stuff to form smog that can cause dificulty those with breathing problems.


on my FJ62 the lack of EGR has been no problem at all (at least for the motor, those with asthma may disagree) There have been many a 1FZ with a P0401 with no EGR flow and no engine problems either,

How to delete it:

Originally Posted by RavenTai

I have not nor do I plan to delete the EGR on my 80, there is just no good reason to do so, unlike the 3FE you cannot gain much working space by de-smoging a 1FZ,

But I do know the EGR system and hypothetically if I were to it would go something like this:

The temp sensor resistor is detailed in another thread, that tricks the ECU, that is the ECU's only window into EGR operation,

You could then unplug the two vacuum lines on top of the throttle body that go to the modulator, plug the ports on the TB and on the modulator. Depending on how discrete you are with you plugs and how good the inspector is it may or may not pass the visual portion of a smog inspection,

EGR is then disabled with the parts still in place, easily reinitiated

If you wanted to go further and remove the parts:

Unplug the VSV and cover and seal the plug to prevent corrosion of the pins or a short from water, possibly by packing the plug with dielectric grease then wrapping it in electrical tape and then heat shrink.

Remove the vsv and its bracket under the intake, plug the ambient line at the T with the purge valve, plug the bottom of the hard line that passes through the intake, cap the top of it also,

Remove the modulator and its bracket,

Remove the EGR valve and EGR pipe, source a cap for the EGR outlet on the head (good luck) use a new gasket as a template to fabricate a block off plate for the open port on the intake manifold, 5/16” 7075-T6 aluminum worked well for the 3FE, install both.

You could possibly also do something with the charcoal canister and its purge valve, you would get a fuel smell and also possibly a fire hazard, if you have a 93/94 there is the pair valve and associated duct work,

That about all a 1FZ can do without, really not much change in access especially on the later motors,

Bear80's thread on the resistor (click through to see picture).

Originally Posted by Bear80

Well my 97 has been driving me crazy with the constant come and go of the PO401. First I tried switching the control for the EGR valve, nope. Also note there was absolutely no carbon in it nor the lines. So I guess it's my VSV control, and what a pain to get to. Could also be the sensor its self. Then I've heard the pesky PO401 will still come back some time down the road even after changing all of those parts.

The resistor replaces the input from the EGR gas temp sensor. Simply leave the temp sensor in the intake but unplug it and plug the resistor in. The sensor is located on the rear of the intake not far from the EGR modulator.

I used two female connectors taken from a toyota plug and soldered them on a 1k ohm, 5 watt resistor. Some heat shrink and your done. However I have noticed it will not kick the CEL OFF. I had to either re-set it will a scanner and then install the resistor or wait till the CEL went off by its self and then install.

NOTE I tried this only as a TEMP fix, but it's worked so well I may just leave it as is.

--UPDATE--, ecu looks for a 1k ohm range not a 1 ohm! simply follow the thread but with a 1k ohm resistor.

A deleting EGR thread (with pics!).
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...g-rid-egr.html






Honestly, what I've read has me considering deleting the EGR. Since you can just throw in a resistor, no non-NA spec ECU is needed to prevent a CEL.

Looks like it'll reduce the carbon going into the intake, and reduce heat in your number 6 cylinder (HG known to fail on that cylinder). It would be very easy to disable and leave in place, meaning no CEL, it'll pass visual inspection, and simple to re-enable if needed. Several people who have done this with non-ODBII trucks have passed the sniff test. IIRC in Oregon, you can go down to the I&M station and they'll test you and the test won't be held against you if you fail for any reason.

Between disabling the EGR and the PVC catch can, that'd eliminate basically everything that causes all that fouling that Garett saw in his throttle body.

Less garbage in the intake and less heat in cylinder 6....awful tempting.....

[TOY350]

Very interesting indeed...

[gnob]

you arent supposed to be able to pass air through the bottom port.
the way that thing is is somthing like this
the two ports are a vacuum and a vent.
the single is the vacuum to the egr valve.
the lower port is from the exhaust.

when not in egr mode vacuum is applied to the one of two and vents out the other.
when working properly, the exhaust backpressure pushes into the lower port which them allows vacuum from the side with two port to the side with one, to the egr.

from my experience it is hard to check the modulators without two mouths and four hands