Get undah mah bellah!

[Ebag333]

So I fabbed up some armor today. I think with it, I can run McGrew and do everything I did before. It's uber stuff.


Top pic:

This is shot from the drivers side, rear. Notice how it will have to be curved in order to fit around the gas tank. Basically when it is done, however, and rocks that hit it should slid off it and directly onto the gas tank instead of having a gap where it can get hung up.

Plus if I take it back that far on the drivers side, there is several holes on the frame that are already threaded and waiting for some armor to be attached.


Middle pic:

Driver's side, center of the truck. On the left you can see the mount bracket for the arm (better view of it in the bottom pic). Mostly a pic to give you an idea of how much this covers.


Bottom pic:

Again the bracket. The belly plate will have to be notched out around this, and then come back a bit (or weld on tabs to attach to the frame). There is a perfect hole (again, already threaded) right in front of the bracket that's extremely protected.

Also I can go a *LOT* more forward, I'm thinking of extending it forward 4-6 inches. That'd also make it easier to attach to the frame.

[Ebag333]

Top pic:

Drivers side again, looking at the front. You can clearly see how much more room I have to go forward. I think I'm going to extend it as far forward as I can (4-6 inches) for three reasons:

1) If a particularly pointy rock comes up, it could whack something and do some damage. Not likely, but why risk it?

2) Coming as far forward as possible should help with airflow at speed.

3) If I don't every time I'll look at it and se this huge gap and......



Middle pic:

Taken from the front of the rig. Note that in this pic the drives side tire is jacked as far up as my floor jack will take it (which, incidentally, works great). The bumpstop doesn't quite touch.

Again you can see how far I could come forward, and how much clearance I'd have. Even with a 4" suspension lift I don't believe I'd come anywhere near the drive shaft.




Bottom pic:

Close up of the drive shaft. TONS of room, and it's notched open enough that I should still be able to (relatively) easily reach it, if need be.

Bottom pic:

[Ebag333]

Top pic:

Last pic of the armor on the rig. From the passengers side, rear. You can see I had to notch around the exhaust. Once I get the body lift and get the exhaust routed over the frame, I don't think I'd have to do that, but it'll at least provide easy access to it in any case.



Middle pic:

The armor laying on it's top on the floor (I was measuring to get a rough idea of the size).

So that's from a "bottom up" perspective (as if you were laying under the truck), with the gas tank notched out at the bottom. Odd perspective...yeah....



Bottom pic:

A *VERY* rough and not to scale diagram of it. The numbers should be pretty close, however.

This is from a "top down" perspective, with the exhaust at the top.

[Ebag333]

So, that's the plan.


Travis, wanna fire up your plasma torch tommorrow?



Oh, while I was under the truck I noticed this (see pic below). That look normal?

[Fly Rod]

Gabe,

It looks like you would be very well protected. A couple of things come to mind. There is alot of heat involved with the exhaust system up front. How will your design affect air flow over the system? Will there be sufficient clearance for the drive shafts at full droop? Are you going to cut access holes for ATF and Transfer oil changes? Are you going to have access holes for greasing the shafts? When you add sliders you will need provisions for attaching them to the frame. Will your current design allow for this?

Those are my initial thoughts. If yours comes together nicely we may need to make a couple more.

[Darkrealms]

Its a good thing cardboards cheap, your gonna need to replace that after every run ..i.

[Ebag333]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

There is alot of heat involved with the exhaust system up front. How will your design affect air flow over the system?

Excellent questions.

The belly plate will be very open on the drive shaft side, which also happens to be the exhaust side. So I don't expect to have any issues.

At some point after the body lift I also plan on routing the exhaust over the frame, and rotating the cats sideways to tuck them up a bit more. I'll use Spectrum Firewall on the underside of the truck as an additional heat/noise barrier, so the in cab temps should (if anything) go down.

But honestly I don't know what'll happen. The cats/exhaust won't be any more covered than it is now directly, so I don't believe that it will be an issue. I can always drill "speed holes" (oblique Simpsons reference) in the belly plate if I need more air flow.

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Will there be sufficient clearance for the drive shafts at full droop?

TONS of clearance. The pics really don't do it justice. I've actually considered bringing it about another 2-4 inches forward as I don't plan on going up past 2", but I'll probably leave it where it's at just in case. Plus it's far enough back that I can easily access the bolts and zirks on the drive shaft.

Really it ends up stopping shortly after the u-joint, if that gives you a better idea. I honestly think you could run pretty much any lift and have no issues.

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Are you going to cut access holes for ATF and Transfer oil changes?

That's the plan.

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Are you going to have access holes for greasing the shafts?

I shouldn't need them, the cutout goes far enough back and I don't think it'll go too far back to need it for the rear.

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

When you add sliders you will need provisions for attaching them to the frame. Will your current design allow for this?

It doesn't. But it wouldn't be hard to notch out holes to slip the U bolts/brackets/whatever through.

The plate, by design, basically goes from frame rail to frame rail. So the only options are to either weld sliders directly to the frame (bad), weld to the plate (slightly less bad), bolt to the plate (weak), or notch some holes through the plate to slip the brackets through (best option). Doing that won't compromise the strength of the plate or it's coverage at all.

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Those are my initial thoughts. If yours comes together nicely we may need to make a couple more.

I honestly think I'm going to like it. I'm suprised, both at how much it covers, the amount of support it'll have (HUGE amounts of support, this thing ain't gonna bow or wow if we build it right), and how small the plate actually ends up being. It might be more than one person can easily put up, but with a little support (using a floor jack or some supports) I think I could do it by myself if needed.

It'll really depends on how well we design and build it. I'd like to basically do a thin(ish) skin, and build some fatty support behind it, to keep it from bowing while keeping it fairly light.

Since we'll have TONS of frame mounts (many of them already threaded, so it's a simple matter to weld a tab to the skid plate with a pre-drilled hole and bolt it up) no need to worry about welding anything or funky bolts.

One of my bigger concerns actually is that it will collect debries and/or water and rust or become extremely heavy. That's part of why I want it to go as forward as possible, to cut down on the area that spray/mud/rocks/etc can kick up into it. A few carefully drilled holes should let water drain as needed.

Originally Posted by Darkrealms

Its a good thing cardboards cheap, your gonna need to replace that after every run ..i.

At least I can go on runs.

[knoll0351]

If you've got steel I've got a torch! Looks like a pretty good plan, does the cardboard lay flat of does it need to have a "wow" or bend in it?

[Ebag333]

Originally Posted by knoll0351

If you've got steel I've got a torch! Looks like a pretty good plan, does the cardboard lay flat of does it need to have a "wow" or bend in it?

It lays fairly flat but we will need to bend it. Serious about doing it tommorrow? I don't want to impose.

[Heron]

Hey,

Have you considered using 1/4" 2024-t3 aircraft type aluminum, its stronger than steel and a lot lighter.
also it does not rust.
6061-t6 would be another option, not as strong but it can be welded using a TIG welder, also stiffer than mild steel plate.

Downside: 2024-t3 is its not weldable but can be formed using 3 X the thickness radius bends

used, surplus & remnants can often be found @ White City scrap metals. good place to buy your steel.

Let me know if I can help

Heron

[tblume]

Originally Posted by Darkrealms

Its a good thing cardboards cheap, your gonna need to replace that after every run ..i.

my thoughts kazactly

[Ebag333]

Aluminum would be great, except for the cost.

I'm going by White City Metals tommorrow morning. I'll see what the have. I've never welded aluminum though. I've hear you can, even without gas, but never done it.

I'll probably end up with steel, just bevause of cost and ease of fabbing.

Plus aluminum doesn't take a hit as well, so I'd be a bit concerned about hitting it hard and cracking it.

If Travis is on for tommorrow.....more people are welcome.

[knoll0351]

Aluminum would be an option with diferent gas and aluminum spool. We'd also need a barel of water to cut into so the poisonous gas doesn't kill us... Thick enough seems to be pretty sturdy RASTA is having great success...
Where did we decide?

[TOY350]

Looks like a good design, I can't wait to see it tested. Sorry I can't make it out tomorrow.

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by Heron

Hey,

Have you considered using 1/4" 2024-t3 aircraft type aluminum, its stronger than steel and a lot lighter.
also it does not rust.
6061-t6 would be another option, not as strong but it can be welded using a TIG welder, also stiffer than mild steel plate.

Downside: 2024-t3 is its not weldable but can be formed using 3 X the thickness radius bends

used, surplus & remnants can often be found @ White City scrap metals. good place to buy your steel.

Let me know if I can help

Heron

Aluminum has one property that would concern my for a belly pan. I gauls really easy. I have had light weight al boats stick pretty solid on slippery rocks. I can't imagine how solid it would stick with 6,000 lbs on top of it.

It would be nice to have a light weight option. I vote Gabe buys titanium and we go from there...

[Ebag333]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

I vote Gabe buys titanium and we go from there...

Well you know, once I get this bylaw passed that reads "All recovering accountants who are currently fly fishing guides and live in Ashland shall pay for upgrades to board members vehicles" I think I'm going to.

You can have my old one. (The cardboard one. )

[tblume]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Aluminum has one property that would concern my for a belly pan. I gauls really easy. I have had light weight al boats stick pretty solid on slippery rocks. I can't imagine how solid it would stick with 6,000 lbs on top of it.

It would be nice to have a light weight option. I vote Gabe buys titanium and we go from there...

I'd use Ti just for the AWESOME way it sparks when grinding, take a look

YouTube - sparks flyin outta my azz!

[Ebag333]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

It would be nice to have a light weight option.

Well, ended up going with the "light weight" option.

AKA 4 gauge steel (~.2 of an inch).

The original plan was 10 gauge (~.1 of an inch) but they didn't have any. The thickest they had around there was 12 gauge (~.08 of an inch) and I wasn't really comfortable going that small.

(They did have some half inch steel diamond plate that I had to pass up. )

Actually it's not too bad on weight. One person could put it up/down with the assistance of a floor jack. Two people make it easy. One person can fairly easily carry/move it.


And of course some piccies!


First pic:

Travis cutting with his nifty plasma torch. This is from a top down perspective (gas tank at the bottom, drivers side left, passengers side right). I had a UV filter on, so it's not quite as impressive as it was in person....

(Hey, he only started two fires!)



Second pic:

(Nearly) finished product. Theres a few trim cuts left (not much), then we'll be drililng holes and welding on tabs to hold it in place.

It will mount in at least 6 places. If we end up removing the factory cross member, it'll mount in 10.

The problem we have is that the angle it has to be at in the front to clear the top of the control arms (it's going to have to bolt directly to the frame) forces the back end down far enough that it's hanging *WAY* below the gas tank (maybe 4").

So we have to do one of three things:

1) Remove the factory cross member. This will buy us the most room and we most likely can keep it as one solid sheet.

2) Cut and weld. Basically have post cross member nearly flat, and an angle before the cross member.

3) Bend it. Yeah. Good luck.

If we go the "as much stock as possible" route then option 2 is our best bet. If we decide to go the "lets get the best choice for wheeling", then option 1 is it.

I need to do research on how hard it is to install Iron Pig's skid place (since you remove the cross member there).



Picture 3:

This is what happens when you let Travis get to play with fire. And steel. Lots and lots of steel.

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

Dang, this moved along quick!

[Ebag333]

Yeah, we spent ~3 hours on it.

That included the time running to White City metals, dealing with dropping off my old rotors (whee, $3 and change!), choosing the sheet, heading back home, running to Sonic for drinks, messing with the cardboard mockup, making a few quick cuts, throwing the sheet up under the rig, figuring out what we needed to cut, bringing it back down, cutting it all out, then throwing it back up for final fitment.

I believe that if the steel was ready to go, and you had a guide (so you didn't have to muck with mock ups and measuring), you could be finished with cutting it out in under an hour, easy.

Another maybe hour cutting and rewelding (if that's the route we go), and then figure an hour for mounting, and you're looking at 3 hours total work.


Hmm....if Iron Pig sells their skid plate for $350....we could probably sell this for close to $700....figure $100 in cost for parts, and 2 hours worth of work......

Shipping is gonna be the killer though.


Left to do:

Figure out the bend (or cut and weld).

Cut holes for greasing joints, drain plugs, etc.

Weld on tabs for mounting.

Drill holes for mounting.

Rattle can it.

Mount it up.


I think we have maybe 2-3 hours of work left. It's the fitment that's going to slow us down, and once it's down it'll be super fast and easy if anyone else wants to do the same.

[knoll0351]

Un Guard!!

[knoll0351]

Remind me to bring the photo's and video from McGrew when we finish up.

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

Originally Posted by knoll0351

Jefferson State Cruisers
(A wholely owned subsiderary of OR/CA TACO

Oh not you too!!!! (That Taco crowd is gonna be the death of this club! )

[knoll0351]

Nice, I didn't even notice I just coppied and pasted...

[Ebag333]

Aww, you took it off.



Okay, so Iron Pigs design requires support of the tranny while removing that cross member (as you thought, Travis).

That's pretty much out for us (how would we support it?) so we're stuck with bending or cutting and welding.

I think your idea of cutting right before the cross member and welding is the best option. It should give us a nice angle too.

Now I just need to figure out what size bolts the frame is threaded for....

[knoll0351]

Mine is M8 25 I think (13mm head size) I can double check next time I hit up Diamond, but not sure they'd be the same though.

[Ebag333]

Originally Posted by cruiserdan

12 x 1.25

(It took a *LOT* of digging to find that. )

I'm gonna swing by Ace hardware tommorrow or tues and pick up one that size and see if it works or not.

[Ebag333]

Travis, when we gonna finish this up? All we need is a cut and weld, then some tabs for mounting.

Find out a time when you can bring your and we can have a nice dinner afterwards. Maybe I'll BBQ up some ribs, or something equally yummy.

[TOY350]

WOW! Looks like you are going to be armored up by this weekend and ready to hit .... Lake Selmac?

[Ebag333]

Originally Posted by TOY350

WOW! Looks like you are going to be armored up by this weekend and ready to hit .... Lake Selmac?

That's right! I can use the belly plate as a ski and pull myself across the lake with my dad's boat.