To locker or not to locker

optionseeker · 01-16-08, 11:23 AM

Hey Everyone,

I am narrowing my choices down to a couple of specific hdj81's and I am looking for some realistic advice on where to spend my money.

I can purchase one particular truck complete with an arb bullbar, new OME lift but (gulp) no lockers. For the same money, I can purchase another with 50% more kms (145 vs 90) with lockers but no lift or bullbar.

So I want to ask the Vancouver Island experts for some opinions on the need for lockers for some very moderate wheeling around here. This truck will be my dd and therefore is not likely to rockcrawl, etc but rather to explore some of the backroads and trails. Maybe a good question to ask is ' Would I be able to participate in most club trail rides without lockers?'

Thanks everyone.......

canucksafari · 01-16-08, 12:48 PM

Lockers will be a lot more money than a lift and there will be a day when you want at least one end locked. Its just the natural evolution of the wheeler. The other thjing to remember is that a suspension lift is not going to lift your axles unless you put bigger rubber underneath. Also, good used bars come up fairly often. Regardling the kms spread, 145,000 on well maintained diesel is nothing. While, 90,000 on one that hasn't been maintained and thrashed about is something to be concerned about. I've seen pics of some of the Island clubs runs and a locker would come in handy.

Stumpalama · 01-16-08, 04:02 PM

Is the contition of both i.e. paint and interior similar?
ARB lockers and compressor will run around $2,400 including install.
Lift and Bull bar run about the same or a little less, depending on the size of lift.
Lifts and bullbars are easier to install (less involved I should say). Plus with a new lift you know what your getting and not putting faith in some Japanese aftermarket god knows what.
HTH

jinzuke · 01-16-08, 04:48 PM

locker will be a good selling point if you resell. I don't think I would buy a 80 without locker unless it was in great shape and cheap. Canucksafari hit it on the nail it all comes down to which one runs better. hope to see you out on a club run

gbcruiser · 01-16-08, 05:40 PM

Kms shouldn't matter much on a diesel...overall condition is far more important, IMO.

optionseeker · 01-17-08, 11:37 AM

Thanks for the replies. As far as the condition of the trucks, I have to make an assumption here. I am planning to buy from Outback, so I cannot see one of the trucks (in transit) so for this scenario, I am assuming that the final products will be very similar (no rust, good paint, baselined mechanicals, etc).

I was under the impression that arb lockers and compressor would be quite a bit more than $2400 installed. Seems to me that a low km truck with lift and bar is a good place to start and then as my wheeling evolves, lockers can be added at a pretty reasonable cost. By the way, am I correct that the rear arb locker is less costly than the front due to the complexity of the istallation?

thanks again

canucksafari · 01-17-08, 01:22 PM

You are still thinking like a person looking at two rigs with gas Ford motors. On the motor themself, 60,000 kms difference on a 1HDT is nothing. If it is an Outback Rig and they still fix everything up sweet as they use to, then go for the higher kms rig.

Why, well injectors are not usually done until 100,000 - 120,000. It is likely they will do the injectors on the higher kms truck (as a buyer you make sure of it) but maybe not on the lower kms truck. You might be a bit hard pressed to get them to do injectors if they figure it has another 25,000 kms on it (year to two years). Price out the cost of injectors and add to that the labor cost of $100/hr. You will have near $800-1200.

I take it that you are probably comparing this one Outback Imports - Used Toyota Landcruisers 4x4 Diesel for Sale with this one Outback Imports - Used Toyota Landcruisers 4x4 Diesel for Sale or one of the other lower priced units.

BTW, I did not see an ARB bar on any of them. IMO, the bull bar on this one Outback Imports - Used Toyota Landcruisers 4x4 Diesel for Sale should be removed immediately before a trail snake takes care of it. Also, it has been trailering with a rather iffy looking trailer hitch set-up.

In sum, the lockers, the 5 speed and the winch make the more expensive one well worth the extra wait and money. But if none of these are important to you, then go with one of the cheaper ones and upgrade in a few years.

Or, you could find a nice US 80 all locked up and do a diesel swap...

Stumpalama · 01-17-08, 01:43 PM

ARB locker: $750 each
Compressor: $200-$250
5 gal Air tank: $40
Installation (providing you pull the thirds yourself and provide them to the shop): $350-$400
Note, this also gives you a chance to repack your birfs etc...
TOTAL: $2190

OME "J" lift: $850
ARB winch Bull bar: $825 ($1000 canadian shipped)
Total: $1675-$1875

Difference: $300-$500 in favor of the lift and bumper

So, in closing, I stand by my advise that, with both trucks being equal in overall condition, I'd take the one with lockers and buy the "nice to haves" later.

optionseeker · 01-17-08, 02:46 PM

Thanks again guys...

canucksafari: I hear you about the Ford gassers and realize that 135k vs 90k is largely a wash with a 1hdt. Interesting point with the added work going in because of higher kms, I may very well end up with more new parts. You were right with the <90k beige (bullbar and lift to be added) but the other truck with ~138k is not yet on Outback's site. The other one (I lost count of the number of aux lights) is pretty rough for the kms. The 5sp is nice but not for me.

Stumpalama, you may have hit on the answer to my question and I appreciate the numbers to show the purchase of the locked one may end up being cheaper (ummm, less expensive) in the end. The piece that stuck out was: what is crucial (lockers) vs what is 'nice to have' (bull bar and lift). I had it backwards, thinking that for me lockers are nice to have.

Thanks for the education.

wussyPup · 01-17-08, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by optionseeker

This truck will be my dd and therefore is not likely to rockcrawl, etc but rather to explore some of the backroads and trails. Maybe a good question to ask is ' Would I be able to participate in most club trail rides without lockers?'

Hi,

For backroads, you won't need a lockers, lift or bullbar.

Most of the trails on the Island are narrow, cut for sammis and mini-trucks. Our 80s are wider and will get scratched up. Expect natural pinstripping if wheeling a 60 or 80. A bullbar is handy for us that drive by braille. Without lockers, you'll find yourself on the end of a strap or winch more often; not a problem but if you persist, you'll end up "needing" at least a rear locker.

Installing a lift and bullbar, you can do in your driveway; no wiring or plumbing like installing a compressor, and you'll probably need to send your diffs to a shop to fit air lockers; once installed though some consider the ARB lockers better than the Toyota e-lockers.

Come join us on one of our next club rides as a passenger and see for your self.

-Steve

IronYuppy · 01-18-08, 12:38 AM

I agree with WussyPup. You don't "need" lockers for most of the trials around here. If you really are considering just "moderate wheeling" than you can get by without lockers (having your centre diff lock, which is standard on the HDJ81s, will get you through 80% of the navigable Island.

You're looking at roughly the same expenditure either way - lift and protection, or lockers.

If you're not going hardcore but want to preserve your truck's shell, go with a lift and protection. IMO lockers will take you places that guarantee body damage without an adequate lift and protection (for proof, have a look at my truck). It all boils down to how you want to wheel, and how you feel about minor body damage. You can always "graduate" to lockers (or, really, just a rear one - nobody says you have to go rear AND front) if you find you're frequently not getting where you want to go. Honestly, the kind of wheeling we do around here, I rarely use the rear locker, and I think I've locked the front end only twice in a year of wheeling. The centre differential lock is very handy on its own. Even without the front/rear lockers, the 80 series is arguably the best "out of the box" SUV ever made.

Stumpalama · 01-18-08, 11:30 AM

I don't think you can lock the front without the rear engaged (i'm not near my truck to confirm, but ithink it goes RR, FR&RR.

Lockers are a nice option if you have the choice between one with and one without.
I'd still get the one with lockers and add the other stuff later or as soon as you get it.
While I agree, in part with Wussypup and Iron Yuppie, I feel lockers come in quite handy, plus with adding lifts and armor, your truck isn't off the road for a week and axels are MESSSSY!

Wussypup nailed it with the observation that lifts and armor can be installed in the driveway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronYuppy

I agree with WussyPup. You don't "need" lockers for most of the trials around here. If you really are considering just "moderate wheeling" than you can get by without lockers (having your centre diff lock, which is standard on the HDJ81s, will get you through 80% of the navigable Island.

You're looking at roughly the same expenditure either way - lift and protection, or lockers.

If you're not going hardcore but want to preserve your truck's shell, go with a lift and protection. IMO lockers will take you places that guarantee body damage without an adequate lift and protection (for proof, have a look at my truck). It all boils down to how you want to wheel, and how you feel about minor body damage. You can always "graduate" to lockers (or, really, just a rear one - nobody says you have to go rear AND front) if you find you're frequently not getting where you want to go. Honestly, the kind of wheeling we do around here, I rarely use the rear locker, and I think I've locked the front end only twice in a year of wheeling. The centre differential lock is very handy on its own. Even without the front/rear lockers, the 80 series is arguably the best "out of the box" SUV ever made.

IronYuppy · 01-18-08, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumpalama

I don't think you can lock the front without the rear engaged (i'm not near my truck to confirm, but ithink it goes RR, FR&RR.
...

That's correct. But I'm not sure if that's part of the ECU system as well, or only because the switch dial won't let you access front without already engaging the rear.

Not sure why you'd want to only lock the front, but I guess the option is good to have, and easy to do with independent switches if you're retrofitting ARBs.

optionseeker · 01-24-08, 12:25 PM

Hey All,

Thanks again for the advice. Today, I received an email from Outback about an 81 they just got and, well, I bought it. Should be here in March.

92 HDJ81, gray, lockers and 78k on the clock.

I can hardly f'in wait!!!

John

dieseldan · 01-24-08, 01:00 PM

Nice find!! I bought from them and can tell you it won't disapoint. Now for the longest wait of your life.

(I suggest printing all of the photos in wallet and poster size rather than hittin' the website 10 times a day until it gets here)

congrats.

canucksafari · 01-24-08, 01:14 PM

congrats... Now all you need is the custom pin stripping.

optionseeker · 01-25-08, 10:14 AM

GREAT advice on the pics!!!! I am getting a little tired of continually checking my email pics. Longest wait of my life!?! Damn, I thought the time would fly by.

Custom pinstriping is good. It will be nice to see it all shiny for the first couple of days and then, well, it IS a truck.

Has anyone set up a personal account with Columbia fuels to get B5 at the cardlock?

wussyPup · 01-25-08, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by optionseeker

Has anyone set up a personal account with Columbia fuels to get B5 at the cardlock?

Yup, was easy, took a day or two for a credit check and then dropped by their office for the cards. Easy to use. The B5 is only available at the Rock Bay location; was there this evening.

-Steve