What is this? Magic? Ripoff? Biofuel related...

[Jan-78FJ40]

http://www.dieselsecret.com/

Please have a look at this, and let me know what you think.

I know it sounds too good to be true, and there is not a lot of specific information there. The FAQ section and the email questions are answered pretty well. I also emailed them a list of questions yesterday, and got very precise answers today.

Has anyone heared of this? Am I being a complete fool?
I have a pretty good chemistry and biology education, so it would not surprise me if there were ways to make oil less viscous.

Anyway, I'd really like to hear some input.

Stone, please do not move this to chat for now, it will die there with a bunch of sarcastic answers, but I'd really like to read the thoughts of the diesel community.

Thanks, Jan

[tlcruiserman]

Jan,

I too took a look at this and asked questions. I think it is possible I just wish I knew what was in the bottle. I am going to order a kit to check it out. I think the risk is worth the reward (or failure)

They had some very interesting things to say about running straight oil, they did make sense.

Cheers,

Michael

Originally Posted by Jan-78FJ40

http://www.dieselsecret.com/

Please have a look at this, and let me know what you think.

I know it sounds too good to be true, and there is not a lot of specific information there. The FAQ section and the email questions are answered pretty well. I also emailed them a list of questions yesterday, and got very precise answers today.

Has anyone heared of this? Am I being a complete fool?
I have a pretty good chemistry and biology education, so it would not surprise me if there were ways to make oil less viscous.

Anyway, I'd really like to hear some input.

Stone, please do not move this to chat for now, it will die there with a bunch of sarcastic answers, but I'd really like to read the thoughts of the diesel community.

Thanks, Jan

[Jan-78FJ40]

Originally Posted by tlcruiserman

Jan,

I too took a look at this and asked questions. I think it is possible I just wish I knew what was in the bottle. I am going to order a kit to check it out. I think the risk is worth the reward (or failure)

They had some very interesting things to say about running straight oil, they did make sense.

Cheers,

Michael

I'll split the cost of the kit and setup with you.
cheers,
Jan

[Dogsled]

Looking forward to hearing more about this...particularly cold temp operation issues if they arise!

[Deny]

Holy Sh!t,
I thought my mom was on crack when she said she saw a program on BBC world about making this stuff, but I guess not. I wonder if there is any byproduct, what kind of chemicals they use, and if you have to keep buying stuff from them, or can get them anywhere. It sort of sounds too good to be true, but hell we don't know till we try, right? How much for their kit?

[Jan-78FJ40]

Originally Posted by Deny

Holy Sh!t,
I thought my mom was on crack when she said she saw a program on BBC world about making this stuff, but I guess not. I wonder if there is any byproduct, what kind of chemicals they use, and if you have to keep buying stuff from them, or can get them anywhere. It sort of sounds too good to be true, but hell we don't know till we try, right? How much for their kit?

It's on their site. the kit with the instructions and video and a first bottle of magic juice is 40$. additional bottles (good for 150 gallons) are 13$. the 'soup' needs some more ingredients that can be purchased locally.

I have not found another place to get this, they might be the only supplier. I have access to great labs and knowledgeable people, so I'll have a sample run on some chromatographs to see what it is.
Anyway, if it is true, it is cheap.
J

[Deny]

Originally Posted by Jan-78FJ40

I have not found another place to get this, they might be the only supplier. J

If it is common in Europe, maybe try going to a biodiesel board, and asking some of the European guys about it, there are probably a few suppliers in Europe. The BBC documentary my mom saw was from from Britain, I wonder if there is a way to see that, cause they go through all the steps, but my mom can't really explain it right, too bad she didn't tape it.
Good luck and let us know how it goes

[Jan-78FJ40]

Originally Posted by Deny

If it is common in Europe, maybe try going to a biodiesel board, and asking some of the European guys about it, there are probably a few suppliers in Europe. The BBC documentary my mom saw was from from Britain, I wonder if there is a way to see that, cause they go through all the steps, but my mom can't really explain it right, too bad she didn't tape it.
Good luck and let us know how it goes

I did that, wasted half my day yesterday
nothing on german, spansish, french or british boards.
I asked them that, and they said it was not viable there, since 80% of the fuel prices are taxes, and they would be taxed the same for the final product, making it not viable...

[Deny]

Yeah,
I heard there was a big crack down in Britain on biodiesel makers, because they were not paying road tax. But I have a lot of family in Europe, and they say that most farms back home (Cz rep) run only on this stuff, but when we press them for information, they never get us any, really frustrating. Maybe it's really top secret
Cheers,
Deny

[lshobie]

I wonder if this would work in colder climates?

Regards

[aamiggia]

If you can run SVO through a diesel engine at the right temp., it shouldn't be difficult to treat that oil to have a lower viscosity.

The additives probably do a quick de-esterfication of te oil and solidify the gylcerin. The filters that the web site mentions probably capture the solids and the rest is bio-diesel. Since it happens in a single container and is pump through a filter, you don't have to worry about it cloging things in the vehicle.

This reminds me of the South Park episode with the knomes.

"Step 1... collect under pants.

Step 3... make profit

What about step 2? We haven't figured that out yet!"

I am very interested in the results. Please keep us informed.
Alex

[brownbear]

Originally Posted by Jan-78FJ40

since 80% of the fuel prices are taxes, and they would be taxed the same for the final product, making it not viable...

thats stupid. why would you have to tell them what you are doing in your home. I thought Canada was bad for Tax, they won't know if were making our own brew.

[lshobie]

Sometimes the MTO here in ontario do spot checks on diesels - looking for stove oil or farm diesel. It's coloured differently.

I still liked the Jet A, less smelly. I'm going to try this stuff though - only 40 usd, less than a case of beer.

Regards

[Deny]

Originally Posted by brownbear

thats stupid. why would you have to tell them what you are doing in your home. I thought Canada was bad for Tax, they won't know if were making our own brew.

That was the problem, too many people making it and not paying taxes, that is why they did the crackdown, and I remember hearing that cops would be out sniffing the exhaust, then they would pull you over, and you would have to show either a reciept for buying it, or proof you were paying the taxes, but I am sure you could buy one tank every now and then and make it yourself anyway, they couldn't tell how many kms you drove right? I don't know if this is exactly what happened, because I heard this and did not read it myself. Maybe one of the European members on this board can tell us what is happening there?
Cheers,
Deny

[lshobie]

I run 2 businesses and there are always so many people with thier hands in my pockets, it's hard to make it worth while.

I am sure the gov't here will legislate home made fuels in the future - or atleast do something to continue to suck us dry.

Regards

[polarweasel]

Snake oil... here's a report from someone who bought the kit...

Basically, the instructions tell you to mix WVO (waste veggie oil) with gasoline, kerosene, and his magic potion, which appears to be acetone. As the temperature drops, increase the amount of kerosene in the mix and decrease the WVO. Nice non-fossil alternative fuel, there.

[crushers]

Originally Posted by lshobie

Sometimes the MTO here in ontario do spot checks on diesels - looking for stove oil or farm diesel. It's coloured differently.

I still liked the Jet A, less smelly. I'm going to try this stuff though - only 40 usd, less than a case of beer.

Regards

i know there is spot checks for purple diesel, usually at flea markets, auctions etc where farmers hang out but i never new running stove oil was illegal...

[lshobie]

Ya, I am pretty sure it is because we dont pay road tax on it either.

[crushers]

our goverment, don't yah just love em?

[Landpimp]

yup, in WA they have specail cops that do just that, they will even pull ya over to check. Also at the heavy equipment auctions they check pickups for red dsl. Basicly if you have a tank in the back of your truck.........don't run fuel oil.......

QUOTE=crushers]i know there is spot checks for purple diesel, usually at flea markets, auctions etc where farmers hang out but i never new running stove oil was illegal...[/quote]

[roscoFJ73]

Originally Posted by brownbear

thats stupid. why would you have to tell them what you are doing in your home. I thought Canada was bad for Tax, they won't know if were making our own brew.

Im hearing a similar story in oz for those who wish to sell it.
Small biodiesel producers are being made unviable by taxes unless they make millions of liters.
The ideal set up for biodiesel is one farmer making the stuff from his crops and supplying 4-5 neighbours with fuel but the govt dont see it that way.

You would think any govt would jump at the chance to eliminate fuel transport costs between the Middle East and your doorstep and at the same time be freed from the political turmoil that is the ME.

Im getting visions of secret stills with camo netting and cruisers gathering for a drink of the illegal stuff

The secret diesel ingredient ,Im not so sure about.
To fully convince me ,I would like to see some long term independant testing on a range of diesels.
The type of testing where they examine the engine , oils and filters before and after with a microscope.
However at the price therE is not much to lose

[Technikev]

In the 15 years I have lived in Alberta, I have seen only one road check for purple fuel - out on some back road near a small farming town. This dyed fuel is legal for all off road uses: tractors, stoves, construction equipment, whatever. If you mostly drive in the city you can probably get away with running dyed fuel. The fines are not that high if you drive alot of miles and don't get caught very often. And as long as your neighbors don't tattle on you for filling your truck from your tank... In Alberta most people heat with natural gas so there are not very many oil tanks, so if you had one it might raise some suspicion. The dye in the fuel also colors your fuel filter and the inside of your tank so even if you currently run clean diesel but used dyed, and someone checked your filter... Busted!

My father used to haul fuel, and he told me that the only difference between stove oil and the diesel you buy at the gas station is a little bottle of concentrated dye. The diesel comes out of the same tank at the bulk plant. He said that sometimes they don't even dye the stuff.

And jet fuel? You thought that low sulfur diesel was dry, try some of that stuff. Yeah, sure it runs good, but it will really wear your moving parts that rely on fuel for lubrication. Cold climate operators that use this fuel regularly use specially hardened or modified fuel pumps to stand up to the lack of lube.

[SamB]

Here in New Zealand we don't pay taxes when you buy diesel, you have to pay Road User Charges instead (so you pay for say 10,000Km in one go and the cost is different depending on weight, axles etc)

So.... the govt doesn't have any problem with people making there own fuels so long as it isn't dangerous!

[honk]

Originally Posted by SamB

Here in New Zealand we don't pay taxes when you buy diesel, you have to pay Road User Charges instead (so you pay for say 10,000Km in one go and the cost is different depending on weight, axles etc)

So.... the govt doesn't have any problem with people making there own fuels so long as it isn't dangerous!

That's a very sensible way to go about taxing - you pay for your use of the public roads, the amount of payment for the roads directly related to how much the payor uses the roads.

It's way to simple for the US of course, and would deprive the gov't of one of it's largest cash cows.

[crushers]

it would be an income loss for the Canadian goverment as well. they tax the fuel for road dedication and spend it on whatever our great goverment decides to.
one thing our goverment is great for, creating a new tax. i would be willing to bet if they created a new road user tax, they would do it in conjunction with the taxes already on the fuel we drive so please do not suggest this to parliment.
cheers

[aamiggia]

Originally Posted by Polarweasel

Basically, the instructions tell you to mix WVO (waste veggie oil) with gasoline, kerosene, and his magic potion, which appears to be acetone. As the temperature drops, increase the amount of kerosene in the mix and decrease the WVO. Nice non-fossil alternative fuel, there.

[RANT=aamiggia] That thread was basically useless, as this one is becoming because of the gov't tax thread hijack. There were 2 good posts om it and 20 sarcastic comments. It's obivously not a solution for hippies trying to avoid the use of fossil fuels. It's for people trying to beat the gas price system. [/RANT]

From the thread in Frybrid.com:

"Basically the manual tells you to buy a Walmart plastic garbage can a couple of pumps and a couple of household water filters, hoses and fittings. Install a Goldenrod filter in one for water removal and wa-lah your system is ready. Actually you also add Kerosene (10% ratio), unleaded gasoline (5% ratio), some Diesel-Kleen+Cetane boost and the magical/miracle potion (DSE) and then pump in your tank. Its pink in color and smells somewhat like paint thinner.

...

It also has a chart stating that it is good to 30 degrees. Add 5% more kerosene for every 10 degrees colder. Blow is the mixing ratio, you guys are the gurus out here. What's your opinion?

20gal filtered WVO, 2gal Kerosene, 1gal unleaded gas, 15oz Power Service+Centane boost additive, 3.5oz of DSE mix slowly for 5 minuets and put it in the tank."

Any comments on the mix?

[A2B in a TLC]

I agree w. aamiggia, lets stay on topic.

"20gal filtered WVO, 2gal Kerosene, 1gal unleaded gas, 15oz Power Service+Centane boost additive, 3.5oz of DSE mix slowly for 5 minuets and put it in the tank"

Anyone used the mix? I don't care whether this "sounds" like snake oil. I just care that it works, saves money, and does not cause engine failure. Oh.. and that its enviro friendly, of course.

Bruce

P.S. My father, a former Regional Director with Revenue Canada Excise Tax, says he does not think that using vegetable oil, etc on a small scale (similar to Ubrew beer or wine) will cause problems w. revenue Cda. Only if you use fuel like stove oil that is NOT taxed because it is not meant to be used in autos.