running SVO, but not WVO

[joshoisasleep]

I've been looking into putting together my own veg kit, but the trouble is I really don't think I'm going to be able to find a coolant-heated water separating fuel filter where I am (Ecuador). What I was thinking was to just forget it for now and run brand new vegetable oil with heated fuel lines and only put it through the stock filter. I can just add the coolant heated veg filter later if I feel like running used oil.

Can anyone think of a reason why this is a bad idea? I think new veg oil is pretty cheap here.

[MrMoMo]

I don't believe the purpose of the heated filter is to remove the water, this should be done in the prep stage of the WVO. You should be able to find a water separating filter at any Marine supply shop, which you must have down there!!

[joshoisasleep]

The water separating part isn't really the issue... well it is because yeah, I'd need to find good water free oil and also rig up an onboard prefilter/water sep system. The problem is that this is a warm place and there's no such thing as heated houses, let alone fuel filters. It's the coolant heated filter I need to do away with really...

As in... why exactly does the filter need to be heated? Is it just so the fuel doesn't get cold while in the filter? Because if so then I can do away with it for new oil right?

[brownbear]

the heat has to be used for both new and old veg oil. The heat is to thin the oil so it flows at the same or similar viscosity as that of diesel. Your injection pump and nozzles need it thinner.

I think if diesel is cheap where you are don't bother with veg oil till you get back in the land of over taxed fuel.

It's just not worth the hassles.

[M John Galt]

If you want to run 100% VO then you need a heated system. If you mix the VO with diesel to reduce the viscosity then you might not need heat. If the engine runs rough or the exhaust smokes on start-up, then there is too much VO in the mix or the engine isn't warm enough.

[joshoisasleep]

I realize about the heating being necessary. I was just thinking why can't I just heat it with hose on hose/electric and skip the heated filter??

[MrMoMo]

I would think that should work... as long as you are confident that you are putting in clean oil... Are you planning on using the stock tank? (you don't have room for another tank!) I think you could cobble together a system pretty cheap, just using lots of hose on hose heating and even a manual 3 way ball valve for fuel selection. What's the price of diesel down there $0.04/L ? ? :-)

[joshoisasleep]

Yeah another tank inside is definitely a no go... heh. I was thinking about having a second tank fabbed up to mount where the spare tire used to be located, under the stock tank. That way we'd double our range and also have a clean SVO tank. It's kinda tricky though as I've been unable to find a good aluminum/stainless fabricator so far.

Price of diesel here in Ecuador is $1.03 a gallon, but in Peru I think it's about the same as back home so that will be a massive shock to the system... It looks to be around 8 days of solid driving to get through the country... that's a lot of money when you're used to maybe $20 a week!

Am I right in thinking this would also considerably increase the capability of my cooling system, since it's transferring so much heat away into the fuel?

[MrMoMo]

Not sure that you need an aluminum or stainless tank... someone here mentioned welding old propane tanks together... I like that idea.

I wouldn't count on it as an increase to your cooling system, if you look at the surface area of heat transferred, compared to the surface area of your rad.... it's not really adding that much, also you will be injecting higher temperature fuel, so technically your are re-injecting the heat that you are taking out...

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by MrMoMo

Not sure that you need an aluminum or stainless tank... someone here mentioned welding old propane tanks together... I like that idea.

I wouldn't count on it as an increase to your cooling system, if you look at the surface area of heat transferred, compared to the surface area of your rad.... it's not really adding that much, also you will be injecting higher temperature fuel, so technically your are re-injecting the heat that you are taking out...

Oh right, good point on the heat. Old propane tanks? Well there's lots of those here... what are they made of? Won't the veggie oil corrode them?


In any case, you have inspired a new and bold idea for my immediate veggie oil future. Since I am buying new oil, and it comes in it's own container, and I have a roof rack... I was thinking why not just go ghetto style and put the oil jugs on the roof with a reinforced fuel line leading down the side of the truck. This way it's gravity fed, and I don't have to worry about tank filling (I just have to lift the damn thing up there!)... I can also see the fuel level by looking at the jug. I was also thinking if I coiled the fuel line a few times running right next to my turbo, that would provide a lot of heat...

[M John Galt]

Good idea, but I'd avoid exhaust heat... it's too hot and can burn or polymerize the oil in the line. Use coolant heat instead.

[MrMoMo]

Originally Posted by joshoisasleep

Oh right, good point on the heat. Old propane tanks? Well there's lots of those here... what are they made of? Won't the veggie oil corrode them?

I don't believe veggie oil is corrosive?? if anything the oil should STOP the corrosion. Perhaps you are thinking of Biodiesel deteriorating rubber?

Or maybe I have completely missed something somewhere and my tank is about to dissolve?

AFAIK, propane tanks are around 3/16" to 1/4" thick.... I've never cut one up though.

It's pretty easy to pull coolant heat off the engine for hose on hose heating.

[joshoisasleep]

I dunno I was told once that veggie oil was more corrosive than diesel, so you want to use stainless or aluminum. Maybe that was some confusion between veggie and bio diesel or something.

Yeah I was thinking of just tapping in to the rear heater hoses. I just thought maybe for cold weather or something it might be good to have additional heat...

[M John Galt]

I was told once that I would grow up to be handsome rich and famous and never have to work a day. I didn't believe that either.

[redandtootall]

I've talked to the greascar guys about this before and they said the filter is the most important part that needs to be heated. An unheated fuel filter will gel very quickly even in SA. If I were you I'd just by the proffessional kit from greasecar. The kit is reasonable and tested.

[Tofudebeest]

Originally Posted by joshoisasleep

I dunno I was told once that veggie oil was more corrosive than diesel, so you want to use stainless or aluminum. Maybe that was some confusion between veggie and bio diesel or something.

Yeah I was thinking of just tapping in to the rear heater hoses. I just thought maybe for cold weather or something it might be good to have additional heat...

The in-tank fuel heaters made of copper oxidize the oil and turn it rancid. Several of the two-tank system manufacturers make this mistake. I.M.H.O. there is not a close competitor to Frybrid, and I have NO affiliation. I know several Greasecar kit users and they've all had issues.

Anyone run their rig using a Davco 234? Seems like an ideal component for a D.I.Y. conversion. Doesn't get you to 180F, but helps with that tak and dewaters and is a FAR better filter than OEM.

[FL cruiser]

I was thinking why not just go ghetto style and put the oil jugs on the roof with a reinforced fuel line leading down the side of the truck. This way it's gravity fed, and I don't have to worry about tank filling (I just have to lift the damn thing up there!)...

I tried that. Vehicle was too top heavy and not fun to drive. Moved the tank inside to the rear cargo area. No smell. I still do load up the roof rack with extra containers for long trips though.

An unheated fuel filter will gel very quickly even in SA.

I have run unheated filters for a few years. They only gel quickly if there's fat in the WVO. With good clean veggie I can go three thousand miles before they gel.
With fatty WVO, it will gell in a couple hundred miles.

Won't the veggie oil corrode them?

It SHOULDN'T corrode if the WVO doesn't have allot of fat in it.
In the very beginning I did have the problem of the metal parts in my injection pump pitting and corroding. Fat particles would polymerize on the steel parts and pit.

Solved the problem with better settling and filtering technics. Getting all the fat out. Also got a different WVO source.

[joshoisasleep]

Originally Posted by redandtootall

I've talked to the greascar guys about this before and they said the filter is the most important part that needs to be heated. An unheated fuel filter will gel very quickly even in SA. If I were you I'd just by the proffessional kit from greasecar. The kit is reasonable and tested.

I actually ordered a kit from Plantdrive and would love to go that route. Unfortunately shipping is difficult... I need this thing before/during my drive through Peru, and the last thing I tried shipping to that country about 3 months ago still hasn't arrived.

Originally Posted by redandtootall

I tried that. Vehicle was too top heavy and not fun to drive. Moved the tank inside to the rear cargo area. No smell. I still do load up the roof rack with extra containers for long trips though.

As far as the vehicle being top-heavy. My plan was to store only one or two of the 20L oil jugs up there. I see people storing 4 20L jerry cans on their roofs in lifted trucks. My truck is stock height and already very heavy, so has a very low centre of gravity. I have harder read suspension, and my opinion it has excellent road handling. I can't imagine one or two 20L jugs being a problem.

Tank in the cargo area is not really an option, as that is already totally full at all times. The only other option is an externally mounted tank where the spare tire used to be, but I haven't had any luck finding a shop good enough to do that, and also then there's fuel senders, lift pumps, fill nozzles, all that garbage to worry about.

Maybe I'll give it a try.

[joshoisasleep]

On another note. I haven't been able to find a 3 way ball valve yet. So I thought, hey why not just use two two way ball valves? With those I could even do on the fly fuel mixing! Without contaminating either tank, I could choose to do just a 20% mix for cold weather, gradually change the mix to suit the environment, or whatever. What do you guys think?

Granted the mixing valves would have to be after all heating so as not to heat the diesel.

Oh... and if it's so important to heat the fuel filter, are people bypassing their stock filters for the veggie?