algae oil

[webelk6]

I just got back from taking my daughters to the dentist. Picked up the latest Time mag. Flipped open to the first page, and they have this alternative energy deal.

Anyway, what caught my eye was the building of "algae farms". One acre of the oil from algae produces 100,000 gal. of oil for bio fuels, whereas 1 acre of corn produces 20 gal of ethanol at a much higher energy, water, and land useage. The paragraph further states, that if 1/10th of New Mexico was used(for example), it would produce enough oil to fuel the entire U.S.

My question is, Does anyone know about this, and if so, what is the hold up besides congress, big oil, yadda yadda. Give the article a look.

[joshoisasleep]

More to the point: Can I put one on my landcruiser and never run out of fuel?!

[Captain23]

Posted this in my Veggie 6bt thread

From the family of Organisms that brought you and Oxygen rich breathable atmosphere, car and truck fuel!

From 4bt swaps:

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...3109#post13109

UNH Biodiesel Group

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science...erplants_x.htm

GreenFuel Technologies Corporation: Profitable Carbon Management

Home Page

CT 7/97 Industrial-size photobioreactors
__________________

404 Error - Page Not Found - Colorado State University - Fort Collins

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science...cbccdrcrd.html

[subzali]

The engineering company I work for is giving technical support to projects like this - in fact one of our clients is an algae-biodiesel company. The biggest holdup right now is proving out the technology on a large scale, as well as defining and recording the effects of changes to the system. There are also mechanical challenges that we are trying to deal with. It looks promising, but time will tell whether it's possible to get the technology worked out to the capacity needed to fuel the country!

[sandcruiser]

That same algae works well for cleaning up dirty water too.
I've never seen anything that indicates that corn-ethanol is good for anyone but the corn lobby (though it does burn pretty clean, which is nice)

[HR-OLIFANT]

Old Dominion University is doing research on this same principal.... they have teamed up with the water treatment plant around the corner from them, and in theory it seems like a win win situation for both parties... the school needs the algae, and the treatment plant wants to get rid of it. Our company is going to propose use of our vehicles for their research once the get things tweeked right.

[Martin White]

I've done quite a bit of looking into this intriguing idea, but have not found any source which shows yields more than 15,000 - 20,000 gals per acre per year. You may want to check your 100,000 gal figure as I can't source that anywhere. Do you have a link which shows that information or is it a typo?

Most of the analysis available on the net show that this concept is not fully viable due to myriad factors. However more productive algae and a focus on reducing costs could make it doable.

[45Kevin]

This must be a hoax, no dentist has the latest of any magazine in his waiting room.

Seriously, I have also heard of algea being a good source of oil as well as many other plants that produce far more oil than corn or even canola. Hemp for example.

[sandcruiser]

holy cow.... 15,000/acre seems like a lot.
Especially when your inputs are ... waste and water.
and you can do a nearly infinite number of harvests, I would think, as compared to 1 or 2 for most oil crops.

15,000 gallons / 52 weeks is 300 gals/week, right? Seems like more than enough for 2 or maybe even 3 families. Possibly enough for a small village that doesn't commute to work every day.

[Martin White]

From what I've read, I don't think this idea is viable on a small scale, because there is a lot of processing to do to actually get useable fuel. Also, although 15,000 gal / acre seems like a high number, the OP said it was 100,000 but has not responded to my request to post a source for that number, which I believe is a typo. It is, however, a very interesting idea.

[sandcruiser]

FWIW, the way I read the first post, his source of that 100,000 number would be Time Magazine and probably an issue in March 08 (maybe Feb?).

Regardless, it is too bad that the mainstream media doesn't seem to be giving this issue as much attention as they are giving to corn-based ethanol. Clearly it would cost a lot of $$ to convert all the gas vehicles in the USA over to diesel, so perhaps some sort of ethanol-based fuel (from switchgrass?) could be a viable solution for some time. But seems to me that algae oil could make a big dent in the demand for foreign oil by powering cars, but more importantly by powering big rig trucks and home heating.

[sandcruiser]

here is a link to a CNN story re: algae production w/ approx 100,000 gallons per acre
the guy doing it uses a verticle plastic bag structure, call Vertigo. Interesting stuff.

Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy' - CNN.com

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by sandcruiser

15,000 gallons / 52 weeks is 300 gals/week, right? Seems like more than enough for 2 or maybe even 3 families. Possibly enough for a small village that doesn't commute to work every day.

300 gallons a week for only 2-3 families!! How much do you drive in a week? I might use 20-30 gallons in a month. On my drive north in the summer when I'm on the road all day I usually need to refuel once a day at 20 gallons/day or 140 gallons a week.

Originally Posted by sandcruiser

Regardless, it is too bad that the mainstream media doesn't seem to be giving this issue as much attention as they are giving to corn-based ethanol. Clearly it would cost a lot of $$ to convert all the gas vehicles in the USA over to diesel, so perhaps some sort of ethanol-based fuel (from switchgrass?) could be a viable solution for some time. But seems to me that algae oil could make a big dent in the demand for foreign oil by powering cars, but more importantly by powering big rig trucks and home heating.

Rather than convert cars why not have the government start allowing more diesel vehicles on the road? Given that after a certain number of years older cars get used less and less and are eventually junked we can have many more diesel cars in 5-10 years IF they start now! Also getting diesel fueled vehicles on the road will only make this more and more viable. Even Rudolph Diesel was talking about bio-fuels when he invented the diesel engine!

[sandcruiser]

personally, I burn about 20 gallons a month.... if I thought it was viable/cost effective to extract the oil, I'd start an algae culture in the backyard and run my septic system through it.

But I get the impression that extraction is the tricky part with algae.

As it stands, I'm thinking about planting some jatropha both here at home and on some ranch land nearby, then harvesting the seeds for oil. Even if I can get 5 gal/month out of it, that's 25% of my average fuel bill.

My figure above, 300 gal for 3 families, was aimed at people living in north america, two adults each commuting an hour each way (or running around w/ kids activities, or what have you), and using heating oil to keep themselves warm all winter. But I didn't put much thought into it, and you are correct that it would probably sustain many more than 3 families.

It would be neat if algae to oil production could be scaled to serve a small community- church group, work buddies, hardware store, what have you. To me, one of the biggest problems with fossil fuels has got to be that a huge amount of fuel is burned, just to get fuel delivered to where people can pick it up and burn it. Wasteful. But petro fuels just don't lend themselves to small-scale, local production.

[JONNYFJ]

This is a great discussion. As an armed forces employee I would really like to see this nation provide its own fuel source and not have to depend on the middle east for fuel. For the transition to all diesel vehicles, I think they should use the same policy as hybrids (that is the tax break for people who own them). As for cost of research and development, this 5 year war with the middle east has put this nation trillions of dollars in debt. If they would have just put a 1/4 of that into an alternate fuel fund, I might not be in Iraq today. That being said I hope this thread keeps going. JONNY

[cruiser_guy]

Originally Posted by JONNYFJ

If they would have just put a 1/4 of that into an alternate fuel fund, I might not be in Iraq today. That being said I hope this thread keeps going. JONNY

That's what I'd like to see. Then the muslims can go ahead and fight each other and leave us alone!

[JONNYFJ]

Originally Posted by cruiser_guy

That's what I'd like to see. Then the muslims can go ahead and fight each other and leave us alone!

Amen Brother you and me both. If they want to fight let them kill each other. There is no reason for the US to play ref.

[M John Galt]

this 5 year war with the middle east has put this nation trillions of dollars in debt

That debt has largely been carried by China, because it's in China's best interest to have the US troops secure the Iraq oil for China instead of using Chinese troops to do the job.
The US is deep in debt because Americans consume billions of dollars of imported Asian crap products. Americans did this to themselves, and they are the only ones who can stop it.

[webelk6]

Originally Posted by sandcruiser

That same algae works well for cleaning up dirty water too.
I've never seen anything that indicates that corn-ethanol is good for anyone but the corn lobby (though it does burn pretty clean, which is nice)

Corn does not burn clean. Also It takes 1400 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of ethanol. Notice ethanol is not a mandate anymore. Alot of grain farmers are diverting wetlands or land the gov't pays them NOT to grow back to corn. Hell at $5/bushel, pays better than not growing. Impact-simple, it will effect migratory birds, and environmental issues as well. Ethanol is a band aid , period.

Originally Posted by Martin White

I've done quite a bit of looking into this intriguing idea, but have not found any source which shows yields more than 15,000 - 20,000 gals per acre per year. You may want to check your 100,000 gal figure as I can't source that anywhere. Do you have a link which shows that information or is it a typo?

Most of the analysis available on the net show that this concept is not fully viable due to myriad factors. However more productive algae and a focus on reducing costs could make it doable.

You have to take the time to read the study from UNH, that a member put up I believe in the third post.

Originally Posted by 45Kevin

This must be a hoax, no dentist has the latest of any magazine in his waiting room.

Seriously, I have also heard of algea being a good source of oil as well as many other plants that produce far more oil than corn or even canola. Hemp for example.

My kids dentist has primo mags all current

Originally Posted by sandcruiser

here is a link to a CNN story re: algae production w/ approx 100,000 gallons per acre
the guy doing it uses a verticle plastic bag structure, call Vertigo. Interesting stuff.

Algae: 'The ultimate in renewable energy' - CNN.com

From what I have read, these are horizontal self contained units, doing NOTHING to the environment. Lets get it on, my aerial truck is screaming for some algae fuel... Oh wait, OPEC and SHELL prolly paid off the inventor just like they did in the '60s for higher efficient carbs, and hydrogen power then. Ya thats right.

[joshoisasleep]

I want to build a school bus that powers itself on algae. All that roof real estate can grow it... rig up a hydraulic press and a standard veg oil conversion... now to research algae growing...

I like the bagged idea. Eliminates one of the main problems which is cross-contamination...

[bunja]

I am personally an algae researcher, looking into the fuel issue now. Working with a couple companies from the academic side and trying to integrate algae growth with a couple other processes. The figure of 100,000 gallons per acre per year is BS. Either a typo or the company that said it is looking too hard for venture capital. The 10-15K is still a little higher than anybody has been able to do yet, but I think that we will get there eventually maybe more.

There are a number of problems that are slowing the process down, one is harvesting the algae, the other is extraction. But there are so many people hitting this hard, the egg will crack.

As for corn ethanol, it is not going to happen, cellulostic ethanol production is where the ethanol bug is going to go.

Food based crops for fuel production is only sustainable on a small scale...period.

[webelk6]

Originally Posted by bunja

I am personally an algae researcher, looking into the fuel issue now. Working with a couple companies from the academic side and trying to integrate algae growth with a couple other processes. The figure of 100,000 gallons per acre per year is BS. Either a typo or the company that said it is looking too hard for venture capital. The 10-15K is still a little higher than anybody has been able to do yet, but I think that we will get there eventually maybe more.

There are a number of problems that are slowing the process down, one is harvesting the algae, the other is extraction. But there are so many people hitting this hard, the egg will crack.

As for corn ethanol, it is not going to happen, cellulostic ethanol production is where the ethanol bug is going to go.

Food based crops for fuel production is only sustainable on a small scale...period.

Thanks for the insight. What about growing the algae in self containing environments? I think any other bio fuel is better than relying on other countries for black gold.

[bunja]

Self containing environments? Such as a photobioreactor vs an open pond? The thing about reactors is that they are expensive to build and maintain, but you get a better yield. Open outdoor systems are cheap to build and run, but you have to deal with contamination. Again harvesting the algae on a large scale, and preserving them until processing offsite is an issue. But there are a whole lot of people trying to crack this egg. It is going to happen, just a matter of time.