Supplemental Hydrogen Generator

[Moe R]

Originally Posted by seapotato

well I have one minor flaw I need to work out, the outer plates are Plexi, as I had some around, but it cracks, I replaced one side thinking it was the brass plumbing fitting swelling and cracking it , but still did it with plastic.

so I'll hit the plastic shop this week and get something better for the outsides.

Mabe u can use a metal type gasket to shore up the plexi where the bolts go through. It's nice to watch the electro action. My 1st was just stainless bolts and they bubbeled nicley. Keep tinkering!! Stay safe, this stuff can hurt

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by Moe R

Mabe u can use a metal type gasket to shore up the plexi where the bolts go through. It's nice to watch the electro action. My 1st was just stainless bolts and they bubbeled nicley. Keep tinkering!! Stay safe, this stuff can hurt

I have used electrolysis to repair rust on steel items, there are warnings about using stainless steel for electrodes due to the toxicity of free zinc.

There are very good reasons commercial electrolysis devices use platinum electrodes, for my rust removal/repair mild steel wasn't a problem.

[seapotato]

Originally Posted by Moe R

Mabe u can use a metal type gasket to shore up the plexi where the bolts go through. It's nice to watch the electro action. My 1st was just stainless bolts and they bubbeled nicley. Keep tinkering!! Stay safe, this stuff can hurt

It is nice to be able to see, but it's clearly not working with the plexi. pretty thick stuff too, but just doesn't seem to like the heat.

the large hole for the gas vent seems to be a weakspot, and I know that stuff expands and contracts a lot with temp. changes.

they tend to have off cuts at the plastic shop of all sorts of different materials, so I'll see what else I can use. pvc or nylon maybe. I'll see what the guy says, about ease of machining and resistance to heat .

I plan to set it up so it's completely flooded and circulates through the bubbler, so I'll be able to easily tell the fluid levels by looking in there.

cheers,
ryan

[Moe R]

Do you run your system through a PWM? I would think it would help keep the heat down.

[seapotato]

haven't got that far yet

So far, the highest amperage I've seen is 8, and with that it gets up to 120f or so. and I've had it running all day with no problems, it's when I shut it off, I find that it's cracked in the morning.

I'm planning to control the amps with the electrolyte solution, and hopefully avoid the pwm. 24volt truck complicates things a bit.

Circulating the fluid helps to keep it cool as well, once I have that part going I'm anticipating that it'll stay under 100f.

I picked up one of those cheap digital pyrometers, and I hope to get it installed on the truck before the tero. just to see what it does to the egt's.

[seapotato]

Cut and pasted this from that message board I posted a link to before. Truck hes' talking about is a 75 chev with a 350, used to get about 9 mpg.

Impressive results for a hoax involving a gas that doesn't exist.



(Still don't have mine in the truck, I have succeeded in getting my garage to look like a meth lab tho...)



"well I finished installing my 3 cell system on my truck today and performed my driving test for MPG after draining the tank and running the carb completely dry I put 1 gallon of gas in the tank. With all systems a go I headed for the Walt Witman bridge which is exactly 30 miles from home. I went to and back and then to a friends house which is 2 miles from my house I ran out of gas in his driveway.

The speedo read before I left 97.900 and after in my friends driveway read 97.962 so the truck went 62 miles on one gallon of gas , I am truely amazed ! I really believe my way of getting the hydroxy into the cylinders makes all the difference in the world , I have each runner on my intake ported to accept a 1/4 inch barbed brass pipe nipples and I run hydroxy to each runner . This truck only got 9 miles to a gallon before I put the hydrogen booster on my truck.

Fact is theres a lot of room for improvements and I can tweek this and even get more and as time goes on and I will . Tomorrow more testing will be done to see if I get the same results . This time I will drive to Atlantic city which is the same approx distance See I live in south Jersey 30 miles from Phila and 30 miles from Atlantic City. This is a 3 cell system and each cell draws about 2.5 amps I figure if I add 1 more cell I should be able to bring the amps down to under 1.5 . The temperature stays around 100 degrees no matter how long they run. The KOH really helps .
I got to believe though the hose routing going to each runner on the manifold really makes this work the way it does. Its on to more testing and I will post my results as I get them. But 62 MPG dam I won't sleep tonight thinking about it. Hydrotech"

[Moe R]

Congrats ! I have been following your progress in another forum. It would be fantastic if u could post some pic's of your project. I find hydro an interesting concept.

[Moe R]

You may have seen this : A lot of this just dosen't add up but it is interesting. eBay Guides - Hydrogen Generator Economy Device SCAMS

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by seapotato

Cut and pasted this from that message board I posted a link to before. Truck hes' talking about is a 75 chev with a 350, used to get about 9 mpg.

Impressive results for a hoax involving a gas that doesn't exist.



(Still don't have mine in the truck, I have succeeded in getting my garage to look like a meth lab tho...)



"well I finished installing my 3 cell system on my truck today and performed my driving test for MPG after draining the tank and running the carb completely dry I put 1 gallon of gas in the tank. With all systems a go I headed for the Walt Witman bridge which is exactly 30 miles from home. I went to and back and then to a friends house which is 2 miles from my house I ran out of gas in his driveway.

The speedo read before I left 97.900 and after in my friends driveway read 97.962 so the truck went 62 miles on one gallon of gas , I am truely amazed ! I really believe my way of getting the hydroxy into the cylinders makes all the difference in the world , I have each runner on my intake ported to accept a 1/4 inch barbed brass pipe nipples and I run hydroxy to each runner . This truck only got 9 miles to a gallon before I put the hydrogen booster on my truck.

Fact is theres a lot of room for improvements and I can tweek this and even get more and as time goes on and I will . Tomorrow more testing will be done to see if I get the same results . This time I will drive to Atlantic city which is the same approx distance See I live in south Jersey 30 miles from Phila and 30 miles from Atlantic City. This is a 3 cell system and each cell draws about 2.5 amps I figure if I add 1 more cell I should be able to bring the amps down to under 1.5 . The temperature stays around 100 degrees no matter how long they run. The KOH really helps .
I got to believe though the hose routing going to each runner on the manifold really makes this work the way it does. Its on to more testing and I will post my results as I get them. But 62 MPG dam I won't sleep tonight thinking about it. Hydrotech"

So he's claiming an increase from 9 to 30mpg and you believe it?

*edit*
Oh wait, he went to the bridge, then back (30 miles each way), then to a freinds hous (2 miles) so he's got 62 mpg.

Just imagine if he installed 6, then he'd be making fuel which he could sell back to the oil companies!

[MOTERRA]

The LT Series - CHEC HFI Hydrogen Fuel Injection system - The LT Series Hydrogen Fuel Injection System provides the same benefits as the HT version:Increased MPG, substantial decrease in emissions, extended oil drains, reduced maintenance, increased

this link proves 10% mileage increase min. in a diesel big rig or light truck... period

this is a hho generator with a warranty and there's no reason why one can't be built if done properly and is in no way perpetual motion or some shit like that, you use up water and 12v into it and out comes hho gas, depending on the electrodes used and amps of 12v you get more gas...sooo more current + more water = more gas....no perpetual motion there what so ever.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by MOTERRA

The LT Series - CHEC HFI Hydrogen Fuel Injection system - The LT Series Hydrogen Fuel Injection System provides the same benefits as the HT version:Increased MPG, substantial decrease in emissions, extended oil drains, reduced maintenance, increased

this link proves 10% mileage increase min. in a diesel big rig or light truck... period

this is a hho generator with a warranty and there's no reason why one can't be built if done properly and is in no way perpetual motion or some **** like that, you use up water and 12v into it and out comes hho gas, depending on the electrodes used and amps of 12v you get more gas...sooo more current + more water = more gas....no perpetual motion there what so ever.

Complete with testimonials claiming a 40% improvement in fuel consumption.
Another one where they gave the bus a full service and tuneup, then fitted the system and pickup up some extra power.

Of course the service and tuneup couldn't have had anything to do with it could they? At least they don't call it HHO.

That hydrogen can improve combustion is well proven, but the devices people are building cannot produce enough hydrogen to make any difference. Turn up the amps and you get water vapour, not more hydrogen.

[seapotato]

you don't even read the links do you? I'm not exactly sure what purpose you feel your input in this thread serves?

read up on what we're talking about before spouting off as an expert on yet another subject. You'll note, that I've only referenced people who have NO interest in selling units, and are just messing around in their garages.


Obviously there's scammers out there. A lot of people claim to be engineers in order to help their scams along. Some people do it in order to attain some sort of acceptance and fame on message boards.

if some guy puts one gallon of gas in his truck and drives 62 miles, what exactly would you call that? voodoo engineering I suppose?

perhaps you also noticed the amps he's drawing? or did you bother to read that closely? Not much water vapour at less than ten amps.

at any rate , your opinion has little value to me, your clearly closed to the idea, which is fine, I do care however, that I have to skip over your posts to get to something useful.

if you have nothing to ad, post elsewhere.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by seapotato

you don't even read the links do you? I'm not exactly sure what purpose you feel your input in this thread serves?

read up on what we're talking about before spouting off as an expert on yet another subject. You'll note, that I've only referenced people who have NO interest in selling units, and are just messing around in their garages.


Obviously there's scammers out there. A lot of people claim to be engineers in order to help their scams along. Some people do it in order to attain some sort of acceptance and fame on message boards.

if some guy puts one gallon of gas in his truck and drives 62 miles, what exactly would you call that? voodoo engineering I suppose?

perhaps you also noticed the amps he's drawing? or did you bother to read that closely? Not much water vapour at less than ten amps.

at any rate , your opinion has little value to me, your clearly closed to the idea, which is fine, I do care however, that I have to skip over your posts to get to something useful.

if you have nothing to ad, post elsewhere.

Yes I did read the links, I read the testimonials too. You may claim to only reference people who have no interest in selling stuff, but others are linking up companies who specifically build, sell and fit these systems?

10 amps is well past the point where you're making vapour.
Read this link Brown's Gas information
Scroll down to "Energy by Tom Napier", that section is right on the money.

With 5 amps it takes about 11 hours to turn 18cc of water into oxygen and hydrogen. If you're doing it faster, then you're producing water vapour, not hydrogen.

People tend to take the advice they're looking for. You're clearly looking for miracle cures to current fuel prices, which is why you're believing the claims of 62mpg from a 350 chev.
Anyone who makes such claims is either mistaken or fraudulent. Probably the former.
It's also why you're reacting so strongly to people who know enough chemistry and physics to show that these systems cannot work as claimed. It's the same reason you're questioning my credibility.

It's your time and money, but convincing others to waste theirs by trying to bury the other side of the argument is not a noble pursuit.

[seapotato]

whatever bud.


I'm looking at it as an interesting hobby with benefits. Some folks have had a great deal of success with it, and having spoken to them and seeing what kind of guys they are, they really have no motive to make up a big lie about the mileage they get. for the most part they share results because they're excited they got it to work.

So if he says he got that far on one gallon, I tend to believe him. Am I going to fly to New Jersey to drive his truck for myself, too see if it actually exists ? Shit no.

My point regarding you, is that you really arent making an argument, just flat statements that it's impossible, when it clearly isn't. There's far too many people doing it to just say it can't work.

As for noble pursuits, even if there was no mileage gain, these gizmos clean up emissions by a considerable percentage. That IS a noble pursuit.

Read your link, ( at least down to where it got into accusaing some dennis lee feller of being a fraud ) there's actually two sides to the argument there.

I don't drive my truck enough to have the price of fuel really sting, takes two months to use a tank, I'm doing this out of interest, and I react strongly to folks like you who make flat denials, simply because it reminds me of other debates, flat earth vs round etc.

if every time someone tries something new, he gets crapped on by people who claim to know it can't possibly work, too many ideas get passed over, in the mean time, should people buy these things ? absolutely not. that's where the main issue with all this comes from.lots of people are getting ripped off.

if, in the end it doesn't work, fine. but things should be explored.


However, it's a fact, that experimental cars to run on hydrogen are being built. Honda is starting to market one, and there's some little prototype driving around japan.

and they're getting that hydrogen from water in the car.

So there's no question that in 20 years there'll be tons of them around, the question is if we can get older cars to run on it.

[american psycho]

Originally Posted by seapotato

I'm looking at it as an interesting hobby with benefits.

That'd be my Land Cruiser.

Trying to break the laws of physics I'll leave to the mad garage scientists and true believers.

Hallelujah and praise the Lord, my 40 floats on water!

[seapotato]

Originally Posted by american psycho

my 40 floats on water!

I take ferries all the time...

anyways, enough bickering, I'll keep my posts on the subject on that other board with all the liars and con artists.

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by seapotato

I'm looking at it as an interesting hobby with benefits. Some folks have had a great deal of success with it, and having spoken to them and seeing what kind of guys they are, they really have no motive to make up a big lie about the mileage they get. for the most part they share results because they're excited they got it to work.

Fair enough. But I haven't found one of these people who've managed to set up a decent experiment to prove that it works or not.

Originally Posted by seapotato

As for noble pursuits, even if there was no mileage gain, these gizmos clean up emissions by a considerable percentage. That IS a noble pursuit.

I haven't seen a single emissions test which shows these systems have an effect, can you provide one?

Originally Posted by seapotato

Read your link, ( at least down to where it got into accusaing some dennis lee feller of being a fraud ) there's actually two sides to the argument there.

I don't drive my truck enough to have the price of fuel really sting, takes two months to use a tank, I'm doing this out of interest, and I react strongly to folks like you who make flat denials, simply because it reminds me of other debates, flat earth vs round etc.

The "dennis lee" thing does muddy the water a lot. Basically he's a guy who sells and promotes free energy devices (perpetual motion machines) and he's one of the biggest drivers behind HHO and browns gas.
Most of the claims surrounding the performance of these devices are from his channels and companies.

As for flat vs round earth, the scientists have always been on the round side, many of them were drowned for it by religious organisations who knew it contradicted their beliefs.

Originally Posted by seapotato

However, it's a fact, that experimental cars to run on hydrogen are being built. Honda is starting to market one, and there's some little prototype driving around japan.

and they're getting that hydrogen from water in the car.

No they don't, they get the hydrogen from refilling stations and it evaporates at a horrendous rate. It won't sit in your car waiting to be used for weeks like petrol does.

If you really want to get electrolysis to work, don't use any electolyte (the baking soda etc that these guys are all adding). The electrolyte causes the water to conduct and heat, producing mostly water vapour.
Set up a cell with just water in it and watch the rate that gas is being produced at.

[Moe R]

Originally Posted by seapotato

I take ferries all the time...

anyways, enough bickering, I'll keep my posts on the subject on that other board with all the liars and con artists.

Ah come on, keep posting here.I love to hear about your progress.
I like reading dougals' opinions too. Free thinking is a great thing.

[seapotato]

Originally Posted by Dougal

No they don't, they get the hydrogen from refilling stations and it evaporates at a horrendous rate. It won't sit in your car waiting to be used for weeks like petrol does.

Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan | Video | Reuters.com

well that car uses water. tho there is a refuting argument from a guy who must be greek ( cuz holy crap does he have a moniker on him...)


the honda doesn't tho you're right about that.


I did see an emmissions test somewhere. I'll see if I can find it again one of these days.




"Ah come on, keep posting here.I love to hear about your progress.
I like reading dougals' opinions too. Free thinking is a great thing."

ha, just so long as he doesn't get the last word...

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by seapotato

Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan | Video | Reuters.com

well that car uses water. tho there is a refuting argument from a guy who must be greek ( cuz holy **** does he have a moniker on him...)

I can't count the number of physics laws that car is supposed to break.

There have been plenty of claims of water powered cars throughout history, we had a guy here two years ago who claimed to have a water powered motorbike.
But a gas analyser showed he had normal amounts of CO2 in the exhaust, there's no carbon in water mate.

[joshoisasleep]

Aren't "laws" of physics proven wrong on a regular basis by the world's top scientists... setting new laws? Isn't that the way science is supposed to work? That you make new discoveries and learn more about the way the world works with each one? I mean, it's not supposed to be religion!

You don't have to be an expert to stumble on something that was there all along...

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by joshoisasleep

Aren't "laws" of physics proven wrong on a regular basis by the world's top scientists... setting new laws? Isn't that the way science is supposed to work? That you make new discoveries and learn more about the way the world works with each one? I mean, it's not supposed to be religion!

You don't have to be an expert to stumble on something that was there all along...

The laws of thermodynamics haven't been broken yet and people have been trying for centuries. I haven't heard of any laws of physics being broken or any recent discovery which was previously impossible.
New methods and materials are making things possible that before were very difficult or uneconomic, but everything that claimed to violate the laws of thermodynamics has turned out to be either a mistake or fraud.
Trying to run a car on water is like trying to set fire to a pile of ashes.

The laws of thermodynamics.
First law: You cannot win, you can only break even.
Second law: You can only break even at absolute zero.
Third law: You cannot get to absolute zero.

In real terms this means that everytime you convert energy from one form to another you lose some. Claiming to create energy (like in a water car) is impossible.