Supplemental Hydrogen Generator

[powderhound]

my blinkers pull more amps than this system.

8 amps...How much engine power do you think it robs to produce 8 amps? 2-4 liter of hho per minute is what is being produced at 8 amps.

Truckers use this same system all over the U.S. to save average of 25% mpg. A trucker originally told me about this system.

8 AMPS! How much do the average headlights draw?

[crushers]

hummm, snake oil maybe
but
i am starting to like the idea...

[gerg]

Impressive results congrats!
Your unit produces 2-4L at 8 amp draw? Is this the smacks booster design, or something else?

G

[powderhound]

Originally Posted by gerg

Impressive results congrats!
Your unit produces 2-4L at 8 amp draw? Is this the smacks booster design, or something else?

G

MagDrive Fuel From H2O - HHO Generators . Magdrive 11a single brick model. $399

[womacje]

Powderhound,

I was looking around on Magdrives site and I couldn't find anything about working with the ecu. a quick blurb about the ecu being able to handle everything, and one quick write up on how to, it looks like, modify your 02 signal... Have you looked into doing this on a newer OBDII system?
I'll check with them, but I would trust a Mudder before a manufacturer on something this new and controversial.

PS. I used to live in edwards, worked at Cordillera, Chair 6 at the Beav and for Timberline Tours. I'm jealous.

[powderhound]

Originally Posted by womacje

Powderhound,

I was looking around on Magdrives site and I couldn't find anything about working with the ecu. a quick blurb about the ecu being able to handle everything, and one quick write up on how to, it looks like, modify your 02 signal... Have you looked into doing this on a newer OBDII system?
I'll check with them, but I would trust a Mudder before a manufacturer on something this new and controversial.

PS. I used to live in edwards, worked at Cordillera, Chair 6 at the Beav and for Timberline Tours. I'm jealous.

We're waiting on a 12a double brick unit to come in(I think they are getting backed up on orders) and we have it going in a 1999 ford f-250 which has the obdII. Talking with the magdrive guys, the unit will not need any modifications to the ecu(which is technically illegal).

The recommended procedure on newer cars is first disconnect the battery for safety reasons and to re-boot the ecu. Second, hho out hose on an obdII vehicle should go as close to the intake manifold as possible and after the MAF/MAP sensor. This is all that has to be done. No modifications to the O2 sensor or "efiee" should have to be used, which is illegal to sell or use. The ecu should automatically correct and lean itself out when using the hho system.

As soon as our new unit comes in and is installed, I will have some numbers to post. The hardest part is the wait time.

PS. were you a raft guide at timberline. I used to guide for lakota and Nova. Also have worked on many of the mcmansions in cordillera as a finish carpenter. Yeah, its rough up here.

[WES1977]

Originally Posted by powderhound

We're waiting on a 12a double brick unit to come in(I think they are getting backed up on orders) and we have it going in a 1999 ford f-250 which has the obdII. Talking with the magdrive guys, the unit will not need any modifications to the ecu(which is technically illegal).

The recommended procedure on newer cars is first disconnect the battery for safety reasons and to re-boot the ecu. Second, hho out hose on an obdII vehicle should go as close to the intake manifold as possible and after the MAF/MAP sensor. This is all that has to be done. No modifications to the O2 sensor or "efiee" should have to be used, which is illegal to sell or use. The ecu should automatically correct and lean itself out when using the hho system.

As soon as our new unit comes in and is installed, I will have some numbers to post. The hardest part is the wait time.

PS. were you a raft guide at timberline. I used to guide for lakota and Nova. Also have worked on many of the mcmansions in cordillera as a finish carpenter. Yeah, its rough up here.

I'm sure lots of people are interested in your end result on this site. I hope this works.
My FJ62 would be my first one to get it.

[womacje]

Powder,
I was a raft guide and a jeep driver for them back in '98-99 ish.

I'm also following the HAFC thread in the 80 section and there is alot of crap that goes with that kit, that circumvents the ecu and tricks this, resistor that... I'd be happy with less than 50% mpg improvement without f'n up my ecu, seems too risky.

[powderhound]

womac,
yeah, 98-99 I was ski teching at gorsuch at da beav, raft guide from 95-98.

I'll check out the 80 hafc thread. Is that the same company out of jersey that claims they're coming out with the picc(pre ignition catalytic converter)?

If so, I put in for a quote on the picc, but they kept pushing the hafc unit which seems to be an hho system, some additive, and a manual lean/rich adjuster.

I told them that I already had a working hho system and just wanted the picc quote, but they've been dangling that carrot for a while now and say you have to have the hafc system to get the picc(seems fishy). I do like the idea of their inline fuel heater, don't know if it does anything but it's only $50, so might be worth a try.

[83bj60]

Originally Posted by Esther

The particular system i am looking at will increase fuel efficency 20 to 28 percent. It is a bolt on system that injects hydrogen into the fuel intake system. The hydrogen is generated by drawing 4 to 10 amps running thur a small tank with distilled water in it. Burns cleaner, more power etc.

Sorry, but as a way to 'increase efficiency', it's utter scientific hogwash, just like perpetual motion machines.

If you are using your engine's electrical generating capacity to electrolyse water, for every unit of energy used at the pulley you may retrieve something like 70% in electricity. Now you are taking that 70% and turning water into hydrogen and oxygen. Let's say you produce the equivalent of 50% of the energy you took from the pulley. Now you are burning that 50%. Remember combustion efficiency? You could get at most 30% from that energy back into the vehicle. That's a net 15%!!!

How can anyone claim that spending that kind of energy with such a dismal return on investment (15% efficiency is what the old steam locomotives would get!!!) will actually increase efficiency by 28%?

The only way to increase efficiency is to find a way to extract the combustion energy so that exhaust gasses will come down from let's say 600 Celsius to 200 degrees, which can only be done by severly modifying the engine's configuration (by condsiderably extending the stroke [and the weight] of the engine, a practical impossibility for cars)...

Sorry, but this is a pipedream! You'd be much better off using a fuel cell with hydrogen generated from hydropower, at least your efficiency levels would be closer to 70% than the dismal 20-30 that can be attained with internal combustion engines!!!

I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong. Where are the figures?

[bagh33ra]

Originally Posted by 83bj60

Where are the figures?

Agreed. I'd love to see technology like this developed to the point of providing an actual benefit. But I want to see numbers.

Before/After long-term mpg comparisons. Long trip MPG comparisons, heck, even some dyno numbers would be fun to look at regarding these.

I know that excellent results can be obtained from the (probably unsafe) use of just a hydrogen tank as an additional fuel source - so the question isn't the use of hydrogen, it's how efficient can an on-board generation system get?

[gerg]

I actually don't think you would believe him even if he said he got better mileage.
G

[powderhound]

Well, I can't speak for others, but my 60 went from getting 10-11mpg to 14-15 mpg with no other mods or tune-up and similar intown and highway driving. That's around the 30-40% improvement. the best I got was 377 miles on 24.18 gallons. Not scientific, but tell that to my wallet, it doesn't seem to mind the results. If you look back through the posts, these numbers are there.

I would love to do an emissions test and dyno test but we don't have emissions testing up here and I wouldn't have a clue where to get a dyno test. At $100/hr, shop time up here in the mountains, things get expensive having others work on your vehicle. If anyone close by wants to volunteer some dyno time, let me know. And by close, I don't mean Denver. Glenwood Springs maybe.

I think one thing that all these posts don't reflect is the cleaning up of the emissions. Mine before I started using the hho, spewed hc's out the tailpipe, you could smell and see it easily. After using the system for a few months, I can't even see the exhaust gases and I don't pass out from the fumes. Good for the environment, seems so. Good for the wallet, seems so.

One other thing I've noticed is that my oil stays a light amber, where before, it turned dark after oil changes rather quickly.

Just observations, not scientific fact, but I am just a simple carpenter trying to make an improvement.

hope this helps.

[seapotato]

Originally Posted by 83bj60

Sorry, but as a way to 'increase efficiency', it's utter scientific hogwash, just like perpetual motion machines.

If you are using your engine's electrical generating capacity to electrolyse water, for every unit of energy used at the pulley you may retrieve something like 70% in electricity. Now you are taking that 70% and turning water into hydrogen and oxygen. Let's say you produce the equivalent of 50% of the energy you took from the pulley. Now you are burning that 50%. Remember combustion efficiency? You could get at most 30% from that energy back into the vehicle. That's a net 15%!!!

How can anyone claim that spending that kind of energy with such a dismal return on investment (15% efficiency is what the old steam locomotives would get!!!) will actually increase efficiency by 28%?

The only way to increase efficiency is to find a way to extract the combustion energy so that exhaust gasses will come down from let's say 600 Celsius to 200 degrees, which can only be done by severly modifying the engine's configuration (by condsiderably extending the stroke [and the weight] of the engine, a practical impossibility for cars)...

Sorry, but this is a pipedream! You'd be much better off using a fuel cell with hydrogen generated from hydropower, at least your efficiency levels would be closer to 70% than the dismal 20-30 that can be attained with internal combustion engines!!!

I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong. Where are the figures?

Thats quite the math equation you've conjured up there.

if these were electric cars you were talking about then maybe you'd have a point.

I said before, this thread is not where you should be getting your info. you want to see numbers, installations and people building these things then check out the forum I posted a link to or one of the other 500 websites solely devoted to this stuff, ( not the commercial ones, where they try to sell kits either)

and not from a bunch of cruiser heads who are in denial that our gas guzzling dinosaurs are still remotely practical...

If you're looking at this as something someone is trying to sell you for 500-1000 bucks, then yeah, be skeptical.

I'm no scientist, and judging by the arrogance in the replies of people who consider themselves to be, (or at least took enough of a chem101 class 20 years ago to try and fake it) I'm kindof glad I'm not.

Funnily enough, even a good friend of mine who's a scientist gets hostile when I mention this subject.
Spends his days examining salmon for parasites.
To which I reply, is that not like a golfer calling himself an athelete ( then he really gets hostile...)

Point being, Must be the koolaid you guys drink.

Guess I'm going to have a hogwash powered cruiser and lawnmower this summer.

The plans are free. Build your own.


No ones trying to sell you anything.

[83bj60]

seapotato, believe me I understand where you are coming from and can readily sympathise with your point of view (but that's another story); it's clear you don't need to prove it to yourself, and you certainly don't have to make any apologies! Sorry for the bluntness, it's nothing personal!

BTW, you are right, there is some decent information out there. But more facts and figures would do wonders to clear away all the obvious bullshit generated by the freeloaders and other marketing types and propagated by naive believers.

Keep shooting guys, it's definitely worth looking into, as it would seem the point is NOT generating and burning hydrogen, but to improve combustion speed and to make more power available earlier. Doesn't THAT clear the air a bit?

Now how about getting some figures from other "cruiser gas guzzlers in denial" ... Powderhound, thanks for your personal account. Now that makes me want to look into it!

[seapotato]

Originally Posted by 83bj60

seapotato, believe me I understand where you are coming from and can readily sympathise with your point of view (but that's another story); it's clear you don't need to prove it to yourself, and you certainly don't have to make any apologies! Sorry for the bluntness, it's nothing personal!

BTW, you are right, there is some decent information out there. But more facts and figures would do wonders to clear away all the obvious bullshit generated by the freeloaders and other marketing types and propagated by naive believers.

Keep shooting guys, it's definitely worth looking into, as it would seem the point is NOT generating and burning hydrogen, but to improve combustion speed and to make more power available earlier. Doesn't THAT clear the air a bit?

Now how about getting some figures from other "cruiser gas guzzlers in denial" ... Powderhound, thanks for your personal account. Now that makes me want to look into it!

Heh, no worries, seems like sometimes people just want to right off new ideas without giving them a chance. ( that whole round vs flat earth thing comes to mind...)

Seriously tho, this website Hydrogen Generator :: Index is a great place to do some reading. Some very sharp guys on there doing a lot of experiments.
I'm going to root around in my boxes of junk to see what I have for ss steel, if I have enough to do it, I'll build a tero cell, if not , I'll grab some wall blanks and put together a smack.

Either way, I don't see anything to lose. maybe 100 bucks in materials. ( and there's no way I'm spending 500 bucks on a kit.)

cheers,
ryan

[powderhound]

For the sake of experimenting, today we were messing around with a few simple electrolysis set ups just using various ss from the toolbox and the kitchen.

for power source, I simply used a small 12v battery and some wire and clips for the neg and pos.

A regular bucket filled with water and a little distilled white vinegar was the electrolyte.

The first simple set-up used two craftsman deep end sockets, one inside the other with some double sticky insulated tape to separate the bare metal. I connected the pos clip to the inside socket and the neg to the outside socket. then submerged in water and connected the other ends of the clips to the battery. within a few seconds the first bubbles started forming and after a few minutes it was producing enough gas to ignite the bubbles as they surfaced.

The second experiment, we substituted two ss mixing bowls and sat one inside the other separated by nylon pieces. this had more surface area and inturn, created more bubbles of which we were able to ignite.

This was a simple experiment just to see how the electrolysis worked with household items and it worked. Now it would need much much more production to match what I have in my cruiser, but it was fun experimenting and very easy to do. the next set up will be a joe cell if i can get the ss tubing in smaller and smaller increments.

j.

[seapotato]

Originally Posted by powderhound

the next set up will be a joe cell if i can get the ss tubing in smaller and smaller increments.

j.

Sounds cool...got a link for the joe cell design?

I was reading one guys account, and he was going to make one out of cheap ss stackable drink cups from wallmart....lots of surface area, cheap and easy, fit inside a 3" sewer pipe.
I need a day where I don't have to work so I can go out and poke around with this.....

[powderhound]

Originally Posted by seapotato

Sounds cool...got a link for the joe cell design?

I was reading one guys account, and he was going to make one out of cheap ss stackable drink cups from wallmart....lots of surface area, cheap and easy, fit inside a 3" sewer pipe.
I need a day where I don't have to work so I can go out and poke around with this.....

YouTube - Joe Cell Wapor from Plates

there's ton's of stuff on youtube, just have to sort through.

and just for fun check this one out:
YouTube - Tesla CD Turbine: Punch Bowl SuperStirrer

[Moe R]

Cool car,the future is here.These people will dissapear. www.electronicsinfoline.com/News/New_Gadgets/Automobile/future-cars-to-run-on-water-only.html - 2 hours ago - Similar pages

[seapotato]

Cool, nice to see ...

seems to me there's no question that there's going to be hydrogen powered cars around in the next 10-20 years...question is whether we can get the old junk to run on the stuff...

I picked up the SS and vinyl today to make a couple Tero Cells....

So hopefully in the next couple weeks I'll be able to post a result or two ...

I'm going to have to drive the cruiser more tho, at the moment it takes 2 months to burn a tank...

[Moe R]

Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan | Video | Reuters.com

Here is a video of the water car

[MOTERRA]

I'm working on a one now and will post up some results if any....3 stainless plates wound beside each other 2 ground plates and one positive plate...in plastic container with blow back/flame arrestor(a must) in a pvc tube to the intake of my 3b soon to be 3b turbo'd...and a dash switch to disable it just in case.

these systems are for sale in canada for comercial and fleet apps so why not for public use

The LT Series - CHEC HFI Hydrogen Fuel Injection system - The LT Series Hydrogen Fuel Injection System provides the same benefits as the HT version:Increased MPG, substantial decrease in emissions, extended oil drains, reduced maintenance, increased