Ether Start

GregFrench · 11-19-07, 02:05 PM

My glowplugs are all bad, so to start it I have been spraying starter fluid in the air intake when it is cold. I found some glowplugs, but am short on cash right now. Will it hurt anything to keep using starter fluid until I can save up the cash?

brownbear · 11-19-07, 02:12 PM

Ether is absolutely not good on your engine. It detonates early and might damage the precups.

I would use very sparingly. Or not all all....

Will it just not start after glowing? I have a hard time believing in SC it will not start on some plugs. Or that all the plugs are failed at once.

If they are all failed, it might be something else causing them to not heat up. Is the busbar getting power?

What led you to believe they are all bad?

Are you starting on diesel or some thick veggie goo?

Eric Winkworth · 11-19-07, 05:20 PM

I agree with brownbear, ether should only be used in a situation where if your truck won't start you are SOL. It should not be used in a regular starting routine... It doesn't burn like fuel it explodes....

gerg · 11-19-07, 05:44 PM

I used ether to get my 3b started after I replaced the head and honed the cylinders. I must say... it was the freaken scarrest noise my engine has ever made. I do believe it is death in a can for your engine.

G

mac · 11-19-07, 10:17 PM

I've used the Ether Bunny on a 3B myself and it is quite a racket coupled with copious amounts of white smoke. I was in a campground and wasn't able to plug in my Cruiser. With all of my plugs burned out, ether was my only option. My fellow campers were less than pleased... not quite the same as campfire smoke.

The real danger in using ether is if your glow plugs are in anyway functioning they will cause the ether to ignite when you don't want it to, i.e., at a point other than compression/ignition. A misplaced explosion of ether as a piston is coming to the top can do some serious damage- say, broken crank, etc..

Some older diesels were actually designed to start on an ether charge and had no glow plugs. If you do use ether, use it sparingly and spray it into the intake quite a ways back or into the air filter assy. so that it is the ether vapour that is ignited and not the fluid.

You'd be better off fixing your plugs and doing the Wilson Switch(search)- 10.5v plugs are actually cheap. So is the peace of mind that comes with it. But in all honesty- if your plugs are COMPLETELY dead and your 3B is as old and tired as mine was and ether is used modestly - you'll be fine for a while.

brownbear · 11-19-07, 10:45 PM

he's got an HJ... so 6 cylinders.

6 x 20 bucks at napa= 120 bones. A bit of cash if your strapped for sure.

The cheap way is to go NGK.

But that said you need to find out what the problem is first. I don't think 6 plugs could all be bad. If 3 are bad and cash is tight you could replace only 3 of the same type.

I would also think that 3 plugs could be bad on a 2h and you could still get it going, just glow the other three really long and crank and crank. A bit more smoke..... but should go.

mac · 11-19-07, 10:56 PM

Ooohhh... didn't notice the sig. Ya kinda unlikely that ALL glowplugs are dead although if his HJ came from Aus it's possible they have never been changed- warm climate and all. Easy enough to check them though- just pull 'em and see if they are glowing red when energized or do a continuity check. Is that a 12V or 24V system?

Looking at your sig- are you sure your starting issues aren't related to poor quality or insufficiently heated oil?

Diesel Weasel · 11-19-07, 11:35 PM

Dude, glowplugs are like $12 each.. How can you afford a diesel cruiser down in the US and not a couple glowplugs? If you can't afford all of them just go buy a couple.. should get you going at least..

bigbrowndog · 11-20-07, 02:59 AM

cheers mate, check to see if they actually have power at the glowplugs. Just because the light shows does not necessarily mean they are getting power. Also if the compression is a bit low it will make the 2H harder to start also crook injectors. Pull them out and clean them and put the best live ones in number 1 and 4 cylinders then next best in # 2. Firing order 1,4,2,6,3,5. Regards

GregFrench · 11-20-07, 06:40 AM

They didn't go all at once. My last one burned out this summer, but it has been warm enough that I didn't need them. I pulled them and checked. The bottoms are missing (burned away) on most of them. Yes I am getting power to them.

Are you sure you can get them at NAPA? Everywhere I checked didn't have them. Do you have a part # because the number I gave them stamped on the side of the plug didn't do any good. (PT-104 8.5V 2D)

Yes, I spray it into my air intake before my filter. Even then, it cranks and cranks, and cranks, then finally sputters to life. If I don't use it, it cranks until it kills the battery and I need a jump AND an ether spray. I only need to do this in the morning, then I am good for the day.

No...there is no nasty Veggie junk in it, as I purge it every time I stop.

As for the money...I have it, but would rather spend it on Xmas for my kids if the plugs weren't an absolute necessity, then buy them after Xmas.

Rig of Mortis · 11-20-07, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregFrench

The bottoms are missing (burned away) on most of them.

As for the money...I have it, but would rather spend it on Xmas for my kids if the plugs weren't an absolute necessity, then buy them after Xmas.

Please, drop the loot on some new glow plugs, your kids will be happy that you made it home for Christmas and you will fall in love with your 'Cruiser all over again.

Check here for part number on glow plugs

Jan-78FJ40 · 11-20-07, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregFrench

As for the money...I have it, but would rather spend it on Xmas for my kids if the plugs weren't an absolute necessity, then buy them after Xmas.

spend it on the kids.
pm me your address, I'll send you some plugs for free.
marry christmas,
J

wesintl · 11-20-07, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-78FJ40

spend it on the kids.
pm me your address, I'll send you some plugs for free.
marry christmas,
J

awesome Jan, If he had a 3b I would have send him my spare set. Very nice of you man.

brownbear · 11-20-07, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-78FJ40

spend it on the kids.
pm me your address, I'll send you some plugs for free.
marry christmas,
J

Right on...... way to help out a fellow cruiserhead

GregFrench · 11-20-07, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rig of Mortis

Please, drop the loot on some new glow plugs, your kids will be happy that you made it home for Christmas and you will fall in love with your 'Cruiser all over again.

Check here for part number on glow plugs

From what I found, there is no part number on that page for the 8.5V plugs. I looked before I posted.

brownbear · 11-20-07, 06:54 PM

Please explain your system. Is it 24 volt? Manual or timer, superglow etc.

Once we know your system guys can offer what plug will work.

Possible your 8.5 volts were wrong.... I dunno.

Big Blue 84BJ60 · 11-20-07, 08:32 PM

ngk-y147t is the number for 10.5v plugs box 0f 10 65bucks from parts store cant remember where i bought them but ngk is cheap ive got six left over.

Big Blue 84BJ60 · 11-20-07, 08:39 PM

ether is no good the more you use it the more the engine will wear at start up use wd-40 it provides a litlle upper cylinder lube just my 2cents

ps glow plugs are best (without wd or ether)

aircrew · 11-20-07, 11:00 PM

Crap, I used WD-40 to try and free up my cylinders in the B. Its locked up solid anyways and has to be rebuilt, good thing it didn't start or else there would be a whole lot less engine left to rebuild.

P.S. sorry for the Thread Jack

GregFrench · 11-21-07, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownbear

Please explain your system. Is it 24 volt? Manual or timer, superglow etc.

Once we know your system guys can offer what plug will work.

Possible your 8.5 volts were wrong.... I dunno.

12v truck.
Manual glow system.
8.5v plugs #PT-104 8.5V 2D on the side of the plugs.
Don't know what superglow is, so I don't know if I have it. All I know is I turn the key backwards until the little coil in the dash glows red, then start it.
Once the last plug(s) went, the little coil stopped lighting. Then the temp dropped, and the truck stopped starting.

As I said before, the plugs are totally burned up. The bottoms are missing. Looks like they have never been changed.
Getting power to them, though.

I was told (by this company in the auction) these are the ones I need.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....m=130147967238

mac · 11-21-07, 12:09 PM

PT104 crosses to NGK #y128t or ND #067100-1350. NGK and NipponDenso are the ones common to my local parts guys (Canada).

rstl99 · 11-21-07, 02:27 PM

I recently ordered half a dozen NGK-Y-147T(7493) 10.5v plugs for my 3B from:

http://clubplug.net/canada/index.html

They were about $15 each, which worked out to a little over $100 with taxes and shipping.

They seem to carry all sorts of glowplugs so likely would have something for your situation.

roscoFJ73 · 11-21-07, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregFrench

I was told (by this company in the auction) these are the ones I need.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....m=130147967238

Neil (roodog) would know,he sells plenty of these. I have this brand in both cruisers and they are faultless(and cheap

)

brownbear · 11-22-07, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roscoFJ73

Neil (roodog) would know,he sells plenty of these. I have this brand in both cruisers and they are faultless(and cheap

)

says a guy who lives in an area where you can cook eggs year round on the dash......

MMmmmm eggs.....

Actually if anyone knows the 2H it's going to be an ozzie.

roscoFJ73 · 11-22-07, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownbear

says a guy who lives in an area where you can cook eggs year round on the dash......

MMmmmm eggs.....

Actually if anyone knows the 2H it's going to be an ozzie.

Well its not all sun tan lotion and lobsters on the bbq

. It got down to -1c last night:brrrrr: in the south but was 46c in the north

bigbrowndog · 11-22-07, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownbear

says a guy who lives in an area where you can cook eggs year round on the dash......

MMmmmm eggs.....

Actually if anyone knows the 2H it's going to be an ozzie.

11-19-07, 02:05 PM	#1
GregFrench IH8MUD Regular Join Date: May 2004 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 321	Ether Start My glowplugs are all bad, so to start it I have been spraying starter fluid in the air intake when it is cold. I found some glowplugs, but am short on cash right now. Will it hurt anything to keep using starter fluid until I can save up the cash? __________________ VEGGIE-Powered 1981 HJ-47

11-19-07, 02:12 PM	#2
brownbear Mod in Hibernation Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Where diesels purr and turbos whine TLCA# 15584 Posts: 6,200	Ether is absolutely not good on your engine. It detonates early and might damage the precups. I would use very sparingly. Or not all all.... Will it just not start after glowing? I have a hard time believing in SC it will not start on some plugs. Or that all the plugs are failed at once. If they are all failed, it might be something else causing them to not heat up. Is the busbar getting power? What led you to believe they are all bad? Are you starting on diesel or some thick veggie goo? __________________ -84 BJ60, Finally on the FN road! -91 FJ80, wife's ride Iron Butt award winner of the Cruise Moab 08 !

11-19-07, 05:20 PM	#3
Eric Winkworth IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,217	I agree with brownbear, ether should only be used in a situation where if your truck won't start you are SOL. It should not be used in a regular starting routine... It doesn't burn like fuel it explodes.... __________________ 1986 BJ70, 24v with a 3B

11-19-07, 10:17 PM	#5
mac rust and moth consumables Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wet Coast Posts: 766	I've used the Ether Bunny on a 3B myself and it is quite a racket coupled with copious amounts of white smoke. I was in a campground and wasn't able to plug in my Cruiser. With all of my plugs burned out, ether was my only option. My fellow campers were less than pleased... not quite the same as campfire smoke. The real danger in using ether is if your glow plugs are in anyway functioning they will cause the ether to ignite when you don't want it to, i.e., at a point other than compression/ignition. A misplaced explosion of ether as a piston is coming to the top can do some serious damage- say, broken crank, etc.. Some older diesels were actually designed to start on an ether charge and had no glow plugs. If you do use ether, use it sparingly and spray it into the intake quite a ways back or into the air filter assy. so that it is the ether vapour that is ignited and not the fluid. You'd be better off fixing your plugs and doing the Wilson Switch(search)- 10.5v plugs are actually cheap. So is the peace of mind that comes with it. But in all honesty- if your plugs are COMPLETELY dead and your 3B is as old and tired as mine was and ether is used modestly - you'll be fine for a while. __________________ -Peter Mac- 1990 HDJ81 1997 40th 1967 Norton Atlas 1986 Yamaha RZ350 1996 Ducati 900SS SP Ya...it's like crack to me... www.bestinshowexhibits.com

11-19-07, 10:45 PM	#6
brownbear Mod in Hibernation Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Where diesels purr and turbos whine TLCA# 15584 Posts: 6,200	he's got an HJ... so 6 cylinders. 6 x 20 bucks at napa= 120 bones. A bit of cash if your strapped for sure. The cheap way is to go NGK. But that said you need to find out what the problem is first. I don't think 6 plugs could all be bad. If 3 are bad and cash is tight you could replace only 3 of the same type. I would also think that 3 plugs could be bad on a 2h and you could still get it going, just glow the other three really long and crank and crank. A bit more smoke..... but should go. __________________ -84 BJ60, Finally on the FN road! -91 FJ80, wife's ride Iron Butt award winner of the Cruise Moab 08 !

11-19-07, 05:44 PM	#4
gerg IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Centre of the universe Posts: 97	I used ether to get my 3b started after I replaced the head and honed the cylinders. I must say... it was the freaken scarrest noise my engine has ever made. I do believe it is death in a can for your engine. G

11-19-07, 10:56 PM	#7
mac rust and moth consumables Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wet Coast Posts: 766	Ooohhh... didn't notice the sig. Ya kinda unlikely that ALL glowplugs are dead although if his HJ came from Aus it's possible they have never been changed- warm climate and all. Easy enough to check them though- just pull 'em and see if they are glowing red when energized or do a continuity check. Is that a 12V or 24V system? Looking at your sig- are you sure your starting issues aren't related to poor quality or insufficiently heated oil? __________________ -Peter Mac- 1990 HDJ81 1997 40th 1967 Norton Atlas 1986 Yamaha RZ350 1996 Ducati 900SS SP Ya...it's like crack to me... www.bestinshowexhibits.com

11-19-07, 11:35 PM	#8
Diesel Weasel IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 231	Dude, glowplugs are like $12 each.. How can you afford a diesel cruiser down in the US and not a couple glowplugs? If you can't afford all of them just go buy a couple.. should get you going at least.. __________________ 1982 BJ60, 3B, 245,000km, Deblinged Freeborn red.

11-20-07, 02:59 AM	#9
bigbrowndog IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: N.Q. australia Posts: 1,273	cheers mate, check to see if they actually have power at the glowplugs. Just because the light shows does not necessarily mean they are getting power. Also if the compression is a bit low it will make the 2H harder to start also crook injectors. Pull them out and clean them and put the best live ones in number 1 and 4 cylinders then next best in # 2. Firing order 1,4,2,6,3,5. Regards

11-20-07, 06:40 AM	#10
GregFrench IH8MUD Regular Join Date: May 2004 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 321	They didn't go all at once. My last one burned out this summer, but it has been warm enough that I didn't need them. I pulled them and checked. The bottoms are missing (burned away) on most of them. Yes I am getting power to them. Are you sure you can get them at NAPA? Everywhere I checked didn't have them. Do you have a part # because the number I gave them stamped on the side of the plug didn't do any good. (PT-104 8.5V 2D) Yes, I spray it into my air intake before my filter. Even then, it cranks and cranks, and cranks, then finally sputters to life. If I don't use it, it cranks until it kills the battery and I need a jump AND an ether spray. I only need to do this in the morning, then I am good for the day. No...there is no nasty Veggie junk in it, as I purge it every time I stop. As for the money...I have it, but would rather spend it on Xmas for my kids if the plugs weren't an absolute necessity, then buy them after Xmas. __________________ VEGGIE-Powered 1981 HJ-47 Last edited by GregFrench; 11-20-07 at 06:52 AM.

11-20-07, 06:54 PM	#16
brownbear Mod in Hibernation Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Where diesels purr and turbos whine TLCA# 15584 Posts: 6,200	Please explain your system. Is it 24 volt? Manual or timer, superglow etc. Once we know your system guys can offer what plug will work. Possible your 8.5 volts were wrong.... I dunno. __________________ -84 BJ60, Finally on the FN road! -91 FJ80, wife's ride Iron Butt award winner of the Cruise Moab 08 !

11-20-07, 08:32 PM	#17
Big Blue 84BJ60 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: brampton ont Posts: 152	ngk-y147t is the number for 10.5v plugs box 0f 10 65bucks from parts store cant remember where i bought them but ngk is cheap ive got six left over.

11-20-07, 08:39 PM	#18
Big Blue 84BJ60 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: brampton ont Posts: 152	ether is no good the more you use it the more the engine will wear at start up use wd-40 it provides a litlle upper cylinder lube just my 2cents ps glow plugs are best (without wd or ether)

11-20-07, 11:00 PM	#19
aircrew PVT. RICE CF Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 228	Crap, I used WD-40 to try and free up my cylinders in the B. Its locked up solid anyways and has to be rebuilt, good thing it didn't start or else there would be a whole lot less engine left to rebuild. P.S. sorry for the Thread Jack __________________ 1978 Toyota BJ40 B Diesel 1989 Toyota Hilux Crew Cab 3L 1989 Mazda B2200 SR20DET .zoom zoom. 1969 Mercury Marauder X-100 429 4bbl 1928 Ford Model T Huxter 4 cyl, really stock 1961 Austin Mini 1100 1974 Yamaha Enduro All the colors of the garage BR Crazy for dems oil burners!!!!1 Resto of the Klunk Munkey http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=168364

11-21-07, 12:09 PM	#21
mac rust and moth consumables Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wet Coast Posts: 766	PT104 crosses to NGK #y128t or ND #067100-1350. NGK and NipponDenso are the ones common to my local parts guys (Canada). __________________ -Peter Mac- 1990 HDJ81 1997 40th 1967 Norton Atlas 1986 Yamaha RZ350 1996 Ducati 900SS SP Ya...it's like crack to me... www.bestinshowexhibits.com

11-21-07, 02:27 PM	#22
rstl99 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 174	I recently ordered half a dozen NGK-Y-147T(7493) 10.5v plugs for my 3B from: http://clubplug.net/canada/index.html They were about $15 each, which worked out to a little over $100 with taxes and shipping. They seem to carry all sorts of glowplugs so likely would have something for your situation. __________________ Current rig(s): 1982 BJ60 3B H42 230Kms and counting 1992 HZJ80 LHD 215Kms ("poverty pack") Planning an expedition...