red diesel

[freeway]

Just got back from Montana and noticed they have something called red diesel as well as regular diesel. Whats the dif?

[Sniperx]

I heard one time in passing, they dye some diesel red to signify it is for offroad use...like tractors and generators. It has a lower or no tax to it and possibly something else. They dye it red, so if the truckers use it to get better pricing, it can be spotted during a checkpoint and they'll be fined.

This also pissed off a lot of people, because they use kerosene to thin the fuel in the winter, which is ALSO died red.

[bull]

Agriculture Diesel that is discounted for farms etc. You cannot use it on road vehicles. State patrols will do random checks in areas that sell it using a long line into the tank. if it comes out red you get a hefty fine 2500.00 or so in Washington State I believe.

[David*BJ70]

I also warm up my house with red diesel. Cheaper ... .

[freeway]

Many thanks. Bit of trivia solved for me.

[RHINO]

isnt kerosene very very faint red though? the red diesel is like kool aide, but it prolly doesnt matter to THE MAN.

[Sniperx]

Truthfully, I don't know. I live in Japan...and filling up with kero is a big nono. I still do it anyway...I mean.... .60cents per liter vs 1.04 per liter. 50/50 is as far as I go with it though. Some people running older rotary cars here run 100% kerosene.

[freeway]

Hey Sniperx. Imported 1980 BJ41 from Japan. Has earsplitting speed alarm on it. How do you disconnect. Gonna give me a heart attack someday.

[wussyPup]

"red" diesel? here, it's called "purple" and is used in both petrol and diesel for marine and non public road use; farmers can also use it in farm vehicles while on public roads

[Technikev]

Purple or "dyed" fuel is cheaper because no road taxes are paid on the fuel. If you get nailed running this stuff in your truck, expect to pay some big fines.

Another thing: it is not just your fuel that is a different color when using this fuel, but also your filters and everything that is in contact with it. If you use it once and not the next fill up, your fuel may not be colored, but the inside of your tank, filler, lines and filter will be also.

In the city you can probably get away with it, but out in the country areas where every farmer has a tank beside the barn, they tend to do roadside checks a bit more frequently.

-kevin

[M John Galt]

If dyed fuel is used offroad diesel is usually dyed red and offroad gasoline is usually dyed purple.
AuNatural stove oil or kerosene is clear and diesel is usually straw colored pale yellow, with #2 generally darker than #1.

[tlcruiserman]

Originally Posted by freeway

Just got back from Montana and noticed they have something called red diesel as well as regular diesel. Whats the dif?

All good answers and all are correct in the USA agracultural diesel is dyed Red and the price is cheaper because you do not get charged the road tax that is in regular diesel and gasoline, Red diesel can be used in any application that does not have vehicles on the road, howver that commonly is ag tractors and farm equipement. That is also why techncially "black and Green" diesel are illeagal in the stateds because the color of the diesl us changed when mixed with motor oil or freyer oil and they could no longer tell if red diesel was used.

Cheers,

Michael

[Dougal]

I've heard about red diesel before. But how about green?

Every so often in this country we get a batch of diesel that's a bright green colour. Someone told me Singapore and other countries have green dyed diesel, but couldn't tell me what it signified.

[Scoot Jockey]

I don't know if someone has mentioned this already or not, but red "off road" diesel also has full sulfur content, as opposed to the ultra low sulfur diesel now commonly sold for road use throughout North America.

Somewhat tempting...

Scoot

[lshobie]

I used to run Jet A1 (jet fuel) in my BJ60, ran great, cheap and clean - was clear and is almost the same as kerosene.

Bio here has a greenish tint to it.

Just as a side note, a guy here was stopped by the quebec cops for a roadside diesel test in his truck. He was caught with the red stuff - when the cops told him he was being busted they attepmted to pour the diesel back into his tank - he told them to stop. So now there is a cop sitting there with a jar of tractor fuel on the side of the road with no where to put it - and he couldnt dump it obviously. The guy said that the cops jar could be contaminated and he didnt want it going into his tank - smart move. I believe they let him go - and probably dumped the fuel in the ditch.

[M John Galt]

Originally Posted by Scoot Jockey

I don't know if someone has mentioned this already or not, but red "off road" diesel also has full sulfur content, as opposed to the ultra low sulfur diesel now commonly sold for road use throughout North America.

Somewhat tempting...
Scoot

Tempting? Why would someone want to put more sulfuric acid into the exhaust system and into the air?

[Dougal]

Originally Posted by M John Galt

Tempting? Why would someone want to put more sulfuric acid into the exhaust system and into the air?

My thoughts exactly.

[Scoot Jockey]

Sulfur, in certain amounts, equals lubricity in diesel fuel. It is vital to the lubrication of injector pumps. With the introduction of ultra low sulfur diesel, additives have been used to compensate for the lack of sulfur. How these additives will react over the long haul with older diesel vehicles remains to be seen. It is also true that too much sulfur when combined with water in diesel can cause sulfuric acid contamination, and subsequent engine damage. Generally .50% sulfur content and above can cause such contamination. In North America we have been below .050% since 1993 which translates to 500 ppm. Now with ultra low sulfur diesel regulations we are at 15ppm! Hopefully modern additives will fill in the gaps.

Okay yes sulfur emissions are bad, but the reason I say tempting is that you are getting the lubrication that was available 15 years ago, and without paying road tax! That being said, I normally use 50-100% biodiesel, but I can understand why someone would want to use red off road diesel.

Also, on the use of kerosene and jet a, be careful. When using it in percentages greater than 50% you could have lubricity issues. Yes, they are both used up north to lower cloud points, but they are mixed with diesel, and or other additives to make them safe to use.

I'll quit rambling now.

Scoot

[M John Galt]

I understand the intent, however there are MUCH better ways of providing more than adequate lubricity to ULSD or Kerosene [aka. Jet fuel, stove oil], as this study shows.
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=177728
Pure plant oil provides the same lubricity benefits as biodiesel made from it.
I use minimum 5% canola veg oil to provide lubricity and improve combustion of the diesel fuel. The easiest/cheapest lubricity additive is bulk food grade canola oil from a 'big box' store. It's usually about the same price as petro diesel and way less than most diesel additives of questionable value as the study shows.

[Technikev]

Originally Posted by Scoot Jockey

Sulfur, in certain amounts, equals lubricity in diesel fuel. It is vital to the lubrication of injector pumps. With the introduction of ultra low sulfur diesel, additives have been used to compensate for the lack of sulfur. How these additives will react over the long haul with older diesel vehicles remains to be seen. It is also true that too much sulfur when combined with water in diesel can cause sulfuric acid contamination, and subsequent engine damage. Generally .50% sulfur content and above can cause such contamination. In North America we have been below .050% since 1993 which translates to 500 ppm. Now with ultra low sulfur diesel regulations we are at 15ppm! Hopefully modern additives will fill in the gaps.

Okay yes sulfur emissions are bad, but the reason I say tempting is that you are getting the lubrication that was available 15 years ago, and without paying road tax! That being said, I normally use 50-100% biodiesel, but I can understand why someone would want to use red off road diesel.

Sulfur in the fuel does NOT lubricate. The hydrotreating process that is used to remove the sulfur also removes some of the lubricity of the fuel. When we went to low sulfur diesel in the late 80's/early 90's, there was a big uproar then, as well. Companies such as Stanadyne and others started selling additives to people to make them feel better about the fuel. Maybe the stuff even works. Though you don't see many quarter million kilometre a year truckers buying up vast quantities of fuel additives, and they don't have many fuel related problems. The diesel fuel that you will buy out of the pumps today likely has far more lubricating properties that the LSD that you bought a year ago.

Additives in ULSD were added to the fuel to increase LUBRICITY, not to "compensate for the lack of sulphur."

The dyed fuel that you THINK is LSD is probably really ULSD. Do you really believe that the refiners will run two separate refining processes to make off road only LSD and the much more widely used ULSD? Do you really believe that the bulk plants will actually inventory two different types of diesel?

My mom currently is the manager of a bulk plant for Imperial Oil (Esso), and they just got rid of the last of their LSD this past spring. They will not get any more LSD. Ever. Its done with. You would not believe the crap they had to go through to meet the federal regulations to even use the same tanks that the old LSD was stored in. They actually had to get new pumps on their trucks because they can't use the same pump for ULSD and other fuels.

My father drives truck and used to haul fuel. If he had a mixed diesel load - some to a retailer (gas station) some to a logging camp or other off road application - he would fill his trailers with fuel out of the same tank. The compartment or trailer that had the load for the off road customer would get a litre or so of marker dye to colour the fuel. Other than the little bit of dye, the two fuels were identical. Came out of the same tank.

The only difference between dyed diesel and non-, is the colour. And the road tax. That's it. If you are pumping diesel out of the tank by the barn, well, yeah maybe. But only because its been there for two years and is full of water and biological matter and rust flakes. Yeah, much better for your injection pump...

-kevin