Biodiesel

Jim_Phillips · 06-07-04, 09:46 AM

Anyone here manufacturing biodiesel and running their cruiser on it. I have done some research and it seems the 2H motor is ideal.

HZJ60 Guy · 06-07-04, 11:30 AM

Here is a story for you James. I bought a 1987 HJ-60 that had been imported into the US. I picked it up in Jackson hole Wyoming. After I got it back to Seattle I had to get it registered and titled in Washington. To do so required an EMISSIONS test. Well ya sure buddy on that one passing. 465,000 klms. No catalytic converter, no anything. So as I drive my 2001 TDI VW on 33% bio I decided to try the 2H. I ran her out of fuel (close) and filled up at the nearest bio station (Bellevue Washington) and then I drove her around for 2 hours. After showing up at the emissions test site they had a hard time with the 60 having a diesel. After much convincing they tested her and she PASSED! They made the typical "Hey it smells like french fries" comment, but that was ok.

I have sence gone to a 1995 1HZ in my 60 and I plan on running 25% bio in her. The main reason I use it is because of the lubricating properties. Your bloody engine will last a million miles if you use that stuff.

TB

06-07-04, 10:04 PM

What excactly is biodiesel and where can I get info on it.

Stickboy · 06-07-04, 11:06 PM

Burger:
Here are the best sites for info on BD:
www.biodieselnow.com
biodiesel.infopop.cc (best tech site around)

I'm going to run my 13bt powered fj60 on 100% bd as soon as the processor is completed. I have no worries with it right now. I do have a heated Racor 645 filter for colder weather operations since bd tends to start gelling around 40degF.

For me I'm running BD primarily because it's a local source of fuel for me that I create, the emissions are drastically lower and less toxic, and lastly better for the engine.

I'm building a setup right now to be able to grow my own mustard (organically), press the oil, make the fuel and put it back into the tractor to grow some more. Also, the meal left over from pressing is an extremely good non-toxic (to humans) pesticide.

my .02

mike

Overlord · 06-07-04, 11:19 PM

[quote author=HZJ60_Guy link=board=21;threadid=17640;start=msg170661#msg17 0661 date=1086629417]
Here is a story for you James. I bought a 1987 HJ-60 that had been imported into the US. I picked it up in Jackson hole Wyoming. After I got it back to Seattle I had to get it registered and titled in Washington. To do so required an EMISSIONS test. Well ya sure buddy on that one passing. 465,000 klms. No catalytic converter, no anything. So as I drive my 2001 TDI VW on 33% bio I decided to try the 2H. I ran her out of fuel (close) and filled up at the nearest bio station (Bellevue Washington) and then I drove her around for 2 hours. After showing up at the emissions test site they had a hard time with the 60 having a diesel. After much convincing they tested her and she PASSED! They made the typical "Hey it smells like french fries" comment, but that was ok.

I have sence gone to a 1995 1HZ in my 60 and I plan on running 25% bio in her. The main reason I use it is because of the lubricating properties. Your bloody engine will last a million miles if you use that stuff.

TB

[/quote]

I've read that a little as 2% biodiesel will improve lubrication.

HZJ60 Guy · 06-08-04, 12:43 AM

You are probably right.

I also use (in every tank) 4oz of cetane booster, and 4oz of injecter cleaner.

With the way sulphur is being removed from the fuel here in the US you NEED to add SOME KIND of lubricity additive EVERY TANK!

The life blood of your diesel engine is the injector pump. That piece of equipment is LUBRICATED by the FUEL! If you arent adding a lubricity additive every tank you are KILLING your injector pump!

Those babies are WAY MORE EXPENSIVE than adding lubricity every tank!

TB

Jim_Phillips · 06-08-04, 02:27 AM

I am in the process of acquiring the necessary ingredients for making my own Biodiesel. I will start with a small batch and if successful build a larger processor in the garage. I have got most ingredients to hand and intend to start off with new veg oil. I'll then graduate to used cooking oil.

biodiesel.infopop.cc is a great source of info - as is www.journeytoforever.org

I have found a few cruiser drivers on the infopop site - they are running Bio in a 2H motor with no probs. It seems the 2H is ideal for the job from what people say.

I intend to get my cooking oil free of charge (most waste companies charge to take it away) I will have to pay for the methanol and Caustic soda but that will only be 15p (22US cents) per litre. In the UK you 'have' to pay 27p / litre on Bio... still, it will work out very cheap to run the cruiser on this.

TB - what % Biodiesel is the dielsel they 'call' Biodiesel in your part of the worls?

In France all Dino oil has 5% Biofuel added by law. The rest of Europe is about to follow suit. It is a great fuel, cheap and non polluting. If anyone is interested I will post pics of my set up once completed.

Jim_Phillips · 06-08-04, 02:29 AM

Stickboy - what processor set up are you going for?

HZJ60 Guy · 06-08-04, 09:08 AM

Good luck to you home brew guys. Let us know how it works out.

TB

smcruisin · 06-08-04, 10:56 AM

Hey Burger,

Biodiesel is a fuel that runs in 'diesel' engines that is sourced from vegetable oil rather than petroleum oil. Some folks run straight vegetable oil, but they have some issues at colder temperatures (the veg. oil gets too thick, and becomes harder to burn). Biodiesel is a chemically altered veg. oil (called methyl ester or 'bio'-methyl ester). Basically you use methyl alcohol and caustic soda to crack the long carbon chains in the veg. oil. Other than the better lubrication properties, the BEST property of biodiesel is your net carbon monoxide and dioxide emmissions are ZERO, as well as nearly ellimination all sulphurous emmissions. The reason your net CO & CO2 emmissions are zero, is because the fuel you're burning comes from vegetable seeds which grew from CO2 extracted from the atmosphere during photosynthesis. You are introdicing NO NEW carbon compounds into the atmosphere. Compare this to Petroleum fuel, which is drilled from within the earth, burned and ADDED to the atmosphere and you will see what I mean.

You can find out lots more info by google searching

Cheers,
Steve

HZJ60 Guy · 06-08-04, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Other than the better lubrication properties, the BEST property of biodiesel is your net carbon monoxide and dioxide emmissions are ZERO

Well maybe for you, but I like the fact that it is so good for your engine. Oh sure if ALL the diesels in the US were using it there would be a measureable difference in registered pollution, but that wont ever happen.

I'd like to see all the farms that are currently being PAID NOT TO GROW FOOD growing bio diesel ingredients. That way we could take a large bite out of our foriegn oil needs.

But that wont ever happen.

Nice thoughts.

Jim_Phillips · 06-08-04, 03:43 PM

...
But that wont ever happen.

Nice thoughts.

So what exactly do you think will be powering your truck in 40 -50 years? Crude Oil is a limited resource you know...............

hj60 · 06-08-04, 04:05 PM

In 40 - 50 years, assuming we're still around, the taxes on registering our
vehicles will be so high, fuel prices will be irrelevant.
And I think hydroen will be powering whatever we drive in 40 - 50 years, if
society hasn't collapsed by then.

HZJ60 Guy · 06-08-04, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Crude Oil is a limited resource you know...............

No it isnt. That is a common misconception.

We'll never run out of oil. The process is a continueing one.

We've only been drilling for oil for some 120 years. We're talking about the Earths capacity of carying oil. You think we are going to use that up any time soon?

Uh, no.

TB

Stickboy · 06-08-04, 07:53 PM

TB,
Can you explain how petroleum isn't a limited resource to us humans and that it is a common misconception that it is?
mike

roscoFJ73 · 06-09-04, 01:29 AM

"Only those mobile enough to scavenge,brutal enough to pillage would survive. The Gangs took over the highways ready to wage war for tankfull of juice."

HZJ60 Guy · 06-09-04, 10:25 AM

Quote:

TB,Can you explain how petroleum isn't a limited resource to us humans and that it is a common misconception that it is?
mike

When I was in the Army (Aviation) one of my pilots was a petrolium engineer. He used to work for Exxon before he went into the Army. He spent 20 years over in Saudi. He explained it to me that the process of regeneration, or the process that creates the oil is a coninuing one. He said to consider the size of the earth, and its capacity. He told me that we wont and cant take oil from the ground fast enough to get ahead of the game. That there would always be oil because of the process of creation. He also mentioned that our technological advancement will mean a moving away from oil long before we would break that barrier anyway.

I certainly cant explain it as well as he did. But I knew this man and how intelligent he was. I believe him.

TB

guenther65 · 06-09-04, 11:47 PM

Does anyone know if it would work well in a 1hz? i am thinking about setting up a biodiesel / veg oil dual tank and had been looking at the 1hz as a engine.

HZJ60 Guy · 06-10-04, 10:43 AM

There is no reason bio diesel WONT work in your 1HZ. I plan on running 20% in my 1HZ. One thing is for sure, if you run bio (not your home made stuff) clean bio that you got from a refinery your engine will last forever! Or close.

TB

Stickboy · 06-10-04, 01:04 PM

It is interesting to note that many commercially available biodiesels are of far inferior quality than most people's homebrew if they wash it. I'll try and post supporting evidence for that. The jist I read a while back was there was a conference on BD and a lab was there testing BD for ASTM compliance and these homebrew guys brought many variations of BD (homebrew, washed/unwashed, World Energy (most commercial stuff available), other commercial) for testing. Folks were surprised at the poor results the commercial stuff resulted.

I'm not saying that homebrew is always good but that if you use a good method and wash it you'll probably be building as good or better of a product than you get at the pump. I think many homebrew folks are worried about wrecking there cars with bad BD that they go the extra mile to make a very high quality product.

-mike

HZJ60 Guy · 06-10-04, 01:29 PM

Interesting, I must say I wasnt aware of that. I use World Energy stuff.

TB

VTCruiser · 06-10-04, 08:45 PM

I am thinking about running WVO in my 1hz through a second tank. i will probably only run it summers and the oil will be pre-heated by a water line (running the lines in a parallel bundle). I need to do some more research before i decide for sure but i don't know any place up here that sells biodiesel unfortunately.

dieselcruiserhead · 06-22-04, 12:28 PM

The main reason I built my rig (a FJ55 with a Cummins in it) is to run biodiesel. It can be run in any truck with no real problems, at higher percentages there are supposedly some issues with it eating older rubber but to be honest, I personally am not too worried about it. Running vegetable oil (straight) as a fuel is supposedly better in indirect engines with inline pumps (according to Journey To Forever) but there is lots of evidence to refute that too... If anyone is in the Utah intermountain area we have started up a biodiesel co-op and are always looking for more Land Cruiser people!

Andre

HZJ60 Guy · 06-24-04, 11:42 AM

Ive got a 1HZ (indirect engine) I plan on running 25-33% bio. The trouble is that stuff has just gone up to 4.20$ a gallon here in the Seattle area.

Turbo (diesel) bummer.

TB

Jim_Phillips · 06-25-04, 02:06 AM

TB

Why not make it yourself? You seem like a hands on kind of person. A little time in the garage and you could make a processor. From my experiences, restaurants are only too pleased to have someone take their waste vegetable oil away. My cost per liter will be 10p (6cents)

I am in the process of building a 'reactor' from a central heating hot water tank. In addition to that, you will need a filter and a pump. There's lots of info on this in the Biodiesel forums.

Jim

HZJ60 Guy · 06-25-04, 10:23 AM

Gosh, maybe I should. It sounds like it might actually be fun. Since I have three turbo diesel vehicles too it would be cost friendly.

Tom B

dieselcruiserhead · 06-27-04, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

Gosh, maybe I should. It sounds like it might actually be fun. Since I have three turbo diesel vehicles too it would be cost friendly.

Tom B

Tom, one of our guys who does it 40 gallons at a time figures it is about $.45 USD to produce a gallon at his rate. This does not include time or labor but nevertheless $.40 a gallon is great!

HZJ60 Guy · 06-28-04, 11:16 AM

Wow, that's awesome. I wonder how long this stuff is good for? How long can it sit before it starts to go bad?

My main concern is getting it CLEAN enough so as to not mess with your injector pump.

TB

Jim_Phillips · 06-29-04, 02:39 AM

They rekon it will sit for about a year before it goes bad. In colder climes it will sit forever.

Jim_Phillips · 07-21-04, 10:13 AM

Just to update.. I am now running on 100% home made biodiesel. Performance is the same, engine sounds the same but exhaust smells a little different. If you have ever put too much cooking oil on to your chicken when you're having a BBQ, then you will know the smell I am talking about. It is quite a nice smell really.

The beauty of the whole deal is that it cost a 10th of the price of UK diesel at the pump. By my reckoning, if I am getting 25mpg, then the cost equivalent MPG for running on Biodiesel is 250 MPG.. Now that has to be worth the effort......