Bio Diesel and SVO questions and concerns

[peterdouglas]

At quick glance, I didn't see any posts on bio diesel or using straight vegetable oil in a diesel Land Cruiser. As you know, I'm new to Land Cruisers. Mine is a 1984 4 cylinder diesel, a friend of mine in the same city has a 6 cylinder diesel Land Cruiser (his is an '86). And another friend has a 1991 Volkswagen Jetta diesel.

All three of us are interested in saving money on fuel. The friend with the Jetta had a 24 passenger mini bus, GMC diesel. He made his own bio diesel and even went so far as to get a trailer to carry several drums of bio diesel with him for a cross-country tour. When he came back, he sold the bus and got the Jetta. He said it was too messy and too much work making bio-diesel, though he said it was about 25% the cost of buying regular diesel.

Anyone here get a system to use SVO? We live in a colder northern climate, so it would have to be heated. I read of a guy who drove a full size diesel school bus across the country for free, just stopping at restaurants along the way for free used vegetable oil.

[M John Galt]

The information you seek is located at:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums

[83bj60]

Originally Posted by peterdouglas

At quick glance, I didn't see any posts on bio diesel or using straight vegetable oil in a diesel Land Cruiser. As you know, I'm new to Land Cruisers. Mine is a 1984 4 cylinder diesel, a friend of mine in the same city has a 6 cylinder diesel Land Cruiser (his is an '86). And another friend has a 1991 Volkswagen Jetta diesel.

All three of us are interested in saving money on fuel. The friend with the Jetta had a 24 passenger mini bus, GMC diesel. He made his own bio diesel and even went so far as to get a trailer to carry several drums of bio diesel with him for a cross-country tour. When he came back, he sold the bus and got the Jetta. He said it was too messy and too much work making bio-diesel, though he said it was about 25% the cost of buying regular diesel.

Anyone here get a system to use SVO? We live in a colder northern climate, so it would have to be heated. I read of a guy who drove a full size diesel school bus across the country for free, just stopping at restaurants along the way for free used vegetable oil.

Peter, there is a wealth of information here and on the net about what works well and what doesn't with biodiesel and veggie, but let me get you started with what I've been gatehring in the past few months:

The best type of engine for Bio but especially SVO is the indirect injected engine like the 3B so you're in luck Apparently direct injected engines are more prone to problems with these alternate fuels.

Biodiesel is prefered as its closest to regular diesel and has the least problematic effects.

Biodiesel is a bit heavier than reg diesel so it can gel in winter, but it offer superior lubricity. It can burn with more soot, however. The secret of trouble free operation is to use it when the engine is hot only and use a good oil base in the process of making it. Try to stick with Canola based oil and oils that are replaced frequently, and do a double wash process to make sure it is clean. Also Bio can disolve old style rubber components in the fuel system. Bio processing is fairly complex and to be cost effective and give good results with the minimum of fuss, requires reactors that can cost on the order of $1,500. Finally it requires a cheap source of Methanol, your biggest consumable and a very poisonous chemical you cannot allow to enter in contact with skin or breathe the fumes of!

SVO is not recommended unless it is kept at the same viscosity as diesel, which means keeping it hot. It burns with even more soot than Bio and can really foul injectors and cause dreadful varnish deposits if it's contaminated or has been heavily oxidized, so using used oil may not be a good idea.

But like I mentioned before, the 3B engine is a perfect candidate for alternate fuel and has an excellent reputation as an engine to be otherwise 'indestructible' and its inline fuel pump is very tough so you have IMO a perfect rig to experiment with.

Mr John Galt here seems to be the authority on this forum about Bio, hope he will drop by. He really knows what he's talking about.

HTH,
Chris

[peterdouglas]

Originally Posted by M John Galt

The information you seek is located at:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums

Excellent! I could probably spend a few days poring over that information. There's a section on tdiclub.com which is pretty good, but of course, geared to Volkswagens. This other forum you gave me the link to looks like a wealth of good information.

This may be answered once I start reading further, but has anyone here know of, or tried bio-diesel or SVO in a 3b engine?

[83bj60]

Originally Posted by M John Galt

The information you seek is located at:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums

Nice to pop in, Mr John Galt and and curse that darn telephone company for barring us access to broadband even though we live near the central and have all the equipment in it for it!!!

[peterdouglas]

Originally Posted by 83bj60

...

But like I mentioned before, the 3B engine is a perfect candidate for alternate fuel and has an excellent reputation as an engine to be otherwise 'indestructible' and its inline fuel pump is very tough so you have IMO a perfect rig to experiment with.

Mr John Galt here seems to be the authority on this forum about Bio, hope he will drop by. He really knows what he's talking about.

HTH,
Chris

Looks like Mr John Galt was posting a reply as you were typing yours!

Thanks for the great info and link so far. Good to hear the 3b engine is a good candiate for this. I was worried about fouling up anything or or ruining any rubber components.

My friend put about 10,000 bio-diesel driven kilometers on his GMC diesel mini bus, this summer with no problems whatsoever, aside from the fact that he hated making the bio-diesel himself.

[PlantDriver]

Check our our website.

Craig

[83bj60]

Originally Posted by peterdouglas

Looks like Mr John Galt was posting a reply as you were typing yours!

Thanks for the great info and link so far. Good to hear the 3b engine is a good candiate for this. I was worried about fouling up anything or or ruining any rubber components.

My friend put about 10,000 bio-diesel driven kilometers on his GMC diesel mini bus, this summer with no problems whatsoever, aside from the fact that he hated making the bio-diesel himself.

Well it's still the World Wide Wait for me. Like this answer page took more than one minute to load. It's an unending hassle. I HATE that darn 'intellitext'!!! Woodeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

And when the page finally ends loading, I've usually forgotten the mental thread and have a hard time continuing. Fianly, there's the Typo Situation: No typo corrector. I usually have to preview ecachj post sverela times!!!

AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

In any case I am following the Biodiesel situation myself with great interest. The basic philosophy behind Diesel LandCruisers is originally durability, simplicity and economy (completely opposite to what Toyota in North America wants us to go to, a$$holes, thanks for cutting us off in 1989!). Although I now got myself a Tiger to replace my Ox, I am still looking into that option for The beast... And yes, I miss the sound of the Old Faithful, nothing like the sweet, solid sound of that reliable four-banger

Keep us posted, Man! I know of at least one other BJ60 owner who is in the process of converting it for Veggie oil use. Heck I may even use the 3B in my old wreck for experimentation purposes myself...

[peterdouglas]

Originally Posted by PlantDriver

Check our our website.

Craig

Very nice! Looks interesting. I see the nearest dealer to me is in Vermont... not bad, it's within a day's drive if I were to get this done. Or, if I go to Kelowna to visit a friend, Salmon Arm is quite close.

I'm contemplating this set-up. Part of me wants to keep my Land Cruiser original, part of me wants to save money and help the environement! Thanks for the link.

Originally Posted by 83bj60

In any case I am following the Biodiesel situation myself with great interest. The basic philosophy behind Diesel LandCruisers is originally durability, simplicity and economy (completely opposite to what Toyota in North America wants us to go to, a$$holes, thanks for cutting us off in 1989!).

Keep us posted, Man! I know of at least one other BJ60 owner who is in the process of converting it for Veggie oil use. Heck I may even use the 3B in my old wreck for experimentation purposes myself...

Part of the reason I got a diesel Land Cruiser was because I had been thinking about the bio-diesel idea. Got more into it after I met my friend Eric with a diesel Landcruiser (and a gas model too). Plus my other friend who had the diesel GMC now a diesel Jetta. All three of us are quite interested in this too. It's a shame Toyota (and other manufacturers) are trying to push the hybrid gas/electric on us. I've always liked diesels. Driven many of them as company vehicles, but never owned one until now.

Not sure how soon this will happen for me (the bio diesel), but hopefully soon. It would be nice to save money on fuel! I'm hoping by spring time...

[zander]

Originally Posted by 83bj60

Peter, there is a wealth of information here and on the net about what works well and what doesn't with biodiesel and veggie

Check the thread here and the link on my sig

The best type of engine for Bio but especially SVO is the indirect injected engine like the 3B so you're in luck Apparently direct injected engines are more prone to problems with these alternate fuels.

I should clarify this, because I think you are drawing this conclusion from one of my posts. I only understand this direct vs indirect issue to affect the use of SVO. I have, and do, run Bio Diesel in many direct injected diesels and to my knowledge there is no problems with it. In fact it is usually a benefit to the motor.

[M John Galt]

There are three simple ways to use veg-oil for diesel fuel:
*use it directly in a heated system that keeps the VO thin as diesel, with two fuel tanks to provide startup on diesel fuel.
*mix VO into diesel fuel up to 20% VO without modification of fuel system.
Both of these options work most reliably with clean VO with no hydrogenated oil or animal fats, especially in cold temps below 60°F.
*the third option is to convert the VO into biodiesel using chemicals and heat.

[peterdouglas]

Originally Posted by zander

Check the thread here and the link on my sig

Lots of great info from the link in your signature, and all the links linking from those links! Although the thread you mentioned above doesn't seem to be clickable. Do you still have that link handy?

Originally Posted by M John Galt

There are three simple ways to use veg-oil for diesel fuel:
*use it directly in a heated system that keeps the VO thin as diesel, with two fuel tanks to provide startup on diesel fuel.

I'm liking this option the best. Been reading about this all afternoon - very interesting and exciting! I particularly like the WVO idea.

[tommyd]

I don't really understand the problem some have mentioned with respect to direct-injected diesels and SVO. For another opinion on this, as well as more info on diesels and SVO conversions in general (no affiliation), see: http://www.goldenfuelsystems.com/res...h_directinject

[peterdouglas]

I hadn't really thought, or heard about that, but glad you put up that article. It clears up a lot of questions or potential debates that could come up.

[83bj60]

Originally Posted by zander

Check the thread here and the link on my sig



I should clarify this, because I think you are drawing this conclusion from one of my posts. I only understand this direct vs indirect issue to affect the use of SVO. I have, and do, run Bio Diesel in many direct injected diesels and to my knowledge there is no problems with it. In fact it is usually a benefit to the motor.

Actually, Zander, that is my general conclusion after reading many different stories on many different websites, and learning about the combustion characteritics of the 1HD-T and its effects on oil...

As you probably know, this new generation of engines operates at very high temperatures and the piston design makes lubricationg oil more prone to coking and any less than perfect combustion and or fuel impurities (acidity comes to mind) can cause deposits in these sensitive areas which can lead to accelerated wear.

I am NOT saying BIO is not good for the later LC diesel engines, but it will require much more from the lubricating oil (extreme heat stability and extra detergency to remove and keep contaminants in suspension). The lubricity bonus you mention benefits mostly the injection pump.

I guess the best way to find out would be to make before and after oil analyses to observe the changes.

I am happy that you have had great success in your motor (2H), but so far have I not seen any long term results on the effects of using biodiesel on the 1HD-T engine, so I recommend caution.

In any case, I will most probably be going that route in the next year. I believe with all the research that has been going on from what we now know from these engines, It's simply a matter of time that the right recipe is found that will make BIO overcome its last hurdles in terms of reliability in our JDM LandCruisers.

[haryv]

I buy mine commercially mixed with diesel and so far everything is okay notice almost nothing different. I have a SVO conversion that Im making and just made a tank template to see how it will fit. Need the heat exchanger for tank, relay for transfer valve and perhaps a pump to circulate the oil to keep it warm.

BTW the good thing about the bio was the emissions test I had done recently to get my insurance renewed.
The maximum opacity should not exceed 30. Is that 30 ppm? I will use parts per million for referance if thats what it is.
The average for all diesels is 19ppm. My vehicle passed with 40% bio in the tank at 1.6 ppm!!. That is unbelievable for a emission reading.
So not only am I saving a little bit of money over regular diesel I am helping the enviroment and reducing green houses gases at the same time.
Recomend bio to anyone in ares where the temp does not go below freezing

[peterdouglas]

Originally Posted by haryv

I buy mine commercially mixed with diesel and so far everything is okay notice almost nothing different. I have a SVO conversion that Im making and just made a tank template to see how it will fit. Need the heat exchanger for tank, relay for transfer valve and perhaps a pump to circulate the oil to keep it warm...

...So not only am I saving a little bit of money over regular diesel I am helping the enviroment and reducing green houses gases at the same time.
Recomend bio to anyone in ares where the temp does not go below freezing

I'm not sure if bio-diesel is sold commercially in my area, but good to know it's working well for you. A friend of mine was making his own bio-diesel but has stopped since it's a lot of work and really messy. We could probably run bio-diesel safely during the summer months.

But, he's interested in a WVO/SVO conversion for his Jetta and now that I've been doing a lot of research on it too, I'm interested in it for my BJ60. Another friend of mine locally has an 86 HJ60 (not currently on the road though). All three of us are interested in running on WVO and may work together to collect and filter the WVO. It would be great to save money and help the environment.

[dieselcruiserhead]

This is a similar link from pirate about it. I have been a biodiesel guy for the last couple years, pretty good tread about SVO conversions. Personally I am pretty close to sold, for what its worth.. Andre

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=534008

[peterdouglas]

That's a good like too - I've bookmarked it for easy reference. I don't think there's any bio-diesel for sale in my local area, but outside of town there is. My friend was making his own, but doesn't anymore. Says it's too messy. I'd use bio diesel if I could get it, then go for the SVO/WVO kit later, maybe this spring.

[kim]

"BTW the good thing about the bio was the emissions test I had done recently to get my insurance renewed.
The maximum opacity should not exceed 30. Is that 30 ppm? I will use parts per million for referance if thats what it is."

It is percent, not ppm. My 87HJ passed the emissions test this year with 0.01 percent. The max allowable is 30 percent.

[HZJ60 Guy]

I run B99 from a station here in town (Issaquah, Warshington) from April to October. In the winter time I run regular diesel. My vehicles are to important to me to mess with making the stuff myself.

[Spore]

I have an '81 bj42 with the 3b and have run biodiesel through it for years now. Most people recommend replacing fuel lines with new ones made of viton, but I have had no trouble with the stock ones so far. When I first got the vehicle, the injector pump needed help, so I had it rebuilt. Nearly all rebuild kits these days have the rubber components made of viton. I've never had any trouble with bioD except gelling in the winter (I live at ~1300m elevation) but have found that mixing 50/50 or more with dino-diesel generally takes care of the problem

[M John Galt]

LJ78 SVO instalation BC Canada
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/foru...081#1251027081

[peterdouglas]

Originally Posted by M John Galt

LJ78 SVO instalation BC Canada
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/foru...081#1251027081

Wow, very nice in every way! I love his truck, turbo diesel and 5 speed manual, and now running on SVO! About the only thing better would be if it