Drive Flange & Birfield -- How much slop or play is normal?

psfpilot · 05-05-06, 01:43 PM

I'm repacking the Birfields for the first time since we've owned it, and I have some questions now.
The PS birf axle stub splines and PS drive flange are obviously worn, the flange considerably more so than the birf.
The DS birf stub splines appear to be unworn, and its flange fits much more tightly, but still has some slop. How much slop is there on a brand new birf/flange interface?

I'm on a budget, so I'm thinking about replacing the flanges and just leaving the birfs alone for now (probably swap sides).
I priced our local dealer, and even after the discount, a single OEM birf is only ~$150 less than a full set of Longfield birfs and axles. Ouch.

What is your advice?

RavenTai · 05-05-06, 02:48 PM

contact Dan and get new flanges at a better price than local, the 91/92 flanges are thinner and have problems with stripping out

another route would be to puck up some used Aisin hubs from a junk yard, might be cheaper and IIRC they are bolt on on the FJ80, but will not fit on FZJ80's becuse the splines are longer.

landtank · 05-05-06, 03:06 PM

The PS flanges seem to wear more than the DS ones. I suspect that the DS ones are fine. What I'd do is place the DS flange onto the PS birf and try and guage any wear in the birf by comparing the slop between the 2 birfs with that flange on them.

If the slop on each birf is the same with the DS flange then just get the flange. It's not that expensive of a part and probably not worth waiting for one to be shipped out of NM unless you have plenty of time on your hands.

psfpilot · 05-05-06, 10:57 PM

Thanks for the help so far.
I have played with the DS flange on the PS birfield, and it makes a difference, but that PS birfield is so far gone that new flanges would just be a temporary fix for the PS. I have decided that I'm going to have to bite the bullet and purchase a new birfield.

Man-a-Fre offers a Japanese "OEM Quality" @ $189. Longfield is $295 (quoted $700 for a full set of inners & birfs, BTW). My local dealer has a discount for our club, so I think it's a wholesale price, but IIRC he quoted $560. Is that out of line for one OEM birf, or is that more likely a price for a pair of birfs?

CDan's voicemail said he's gone 'til the 8th, and he is not presently accepting PMs. Would anyone happen to know what I could expect to pay for an OEM birfield from him?

landtank · 05-06-06, 06:21 AM

You might PM AIM as he had some used but still good birfs for the older style. Otherwise you best most cost effective solution is the longfields.

psfpilot · 05-08-06, 08:33 PM

I have decided to buy two flanges and one birfield to replace the worn PS birf.

After an informal CBA, I have decided that I would like to purchase a Longfield, but have a pressing question: can I run the later style (longer splined stub) birfield by installing the later style (longer splined section) hub, or is a more extensive modification required?

I ask because I think the Longfield has the longer splines. Also, is there a difference between the 91-92 spline lenth and the 93 spline length? I have read that the 94-97 models have the long splines from the factory.

aim · 05-09-06, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psfpilot

I have decided to buy two flanges and one birfield to replace the worn PS birf.

After an informal CBA, I have decided that I would like to purchase a Longfield, but have a pressing question: can I run the later style (longer splined stub) birfield by installing the later style (longer splined section) hub, or is a more extensive modification required?

I ask because I think the Longfield has the longer splines. Also, is there a difference between the 91-92 spline lenth and the 93 spline length? I have read that the 94-97 models have the long splines from the factory.

The 91-92 splines should be the same as 93 and some '94. My early 94 is the same as my 92, at least. For reference, consult http://www.sleeoffroad.com/newbie/newbie100.htm and search for 43421-60040.

I spoke to longfieldsuperaxles and was not sure I understood wether they had longer or shorter splines. Since I use the vehicle as a DD, I also wasn't clear about the durability (wear-wise; I'm sure they are plenty strong enough on the trail) of the longfields.

A.

landtank · 05-09-06, 04:38 PM

you'll need to order the later, thicker, flange for the longfield and the older, thinnier, flange for the original birf.

psfpilot · 05-10-06, 10:32 AM

landtank, RavenTai, and aim,

Thank you for the help. After a PM to CDan, I put in an order for the short flange and misc. parts with him. My local dealer was showing the short flange on backorder, but CDan had them in stock.

I think that in the future the most efficient manner of ordering the parts for an axle rebuild would be to call him, due to his extensive knowledge and inventory of Cruiser parts. Now I'm just waiting for the Longfield and other parts to arrive. We should have it buttoned up in time to test drive it before the Razorback Ramble '06. As always, I appreciate the help. I know it would have been impossible to do it myself in a timely fashion without your assistance and knowledge base.

aim · 05-10-06, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psfpilot

landtank, RavenTai, and aim,

Thank you for the help. After a PM to CDan, I put in an order for the short flange and misc. parts with him. My local dealer was showing the short flange on backorder, but CDan had them in stock.

I think that in the future the most efficient manner of ordering the parts for an axle rebuild would be to call him, due to his extensive knowledge and inventory of Cruiser parts. Now I'm just waiting for the Longfield and other parts to arrive. We should have it buttoned up in time to test drive it before the Razorback Ramble '06. As always, I appreciate the help. I know it would have been impossible to do it myself in a timely fashion without your assistance and knowledge base.

cdan is certainly the man. As for the longfields, are you saying that they have the short splines to go with your new (singular) shallow flange? Short splines, pre '94, compatible with manual hubs, etc., etc. No need to thank me, I'm the eternaly confused one.

psfpilot · 05-10-06, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aim

...As for the longfields, are you saying that they have the short splines to go with your new (singular) shallow flange?...

I needed a short flange for the original DS birf. I'm replacing the PS birf with the Longfield, and it will use a long-spline flange already ordered from a local dealer.

RavenTai · 05-10-06, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aim

The 91-92 splines should be the same as 93 and some '94. My early 94 is the same as my 92, at least. For reference, consult http://www.sleeoffroad.com/newbie/newbie100.htm and search for 43421-60040.

I spoke to longfieldsuperaxles and was not sure I understood wether they had longer or shorter splines. Since I use the vehicle as a DD, I also wasn't clear about the durability (wear-wise; I'm sure they are plenty strong enough on the trail) of the longfields.

A.

so the date of the change in spline length was april of 94, good to know

psfpilot · 06-07-06, 05:48 PM

We took it out wheeling to the Razorback Ramble this past weekend and nothing fell off, despite our best efforts to loosen things up on the trails. It ran like a top all the way to Hot Springs and back. Poor thing wants to cruise in its sweet spot at 80-90mph and the speed limits and roads just don't permit that around here.

Thanks to all for the help sorting this out. The longfield fit perfectly with the 94+ drive flange. The front axle should be in good shape until at least 325,000 miles now.

CJF · 06-07-06, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psfpilot

Poor thing wants to cruise in its sweet spot at 80-90mph.

Uh...

We are talkin' 3FE here, right? Your definition of "sweet spot" must be: "The speed at which the vehicle tends towards with the skinny pedal pressed firmly to the floor".

Cheers,

Curtis
91FJ80
230K

psfpilot · 06-16-06, 10:16 PM

No, seriously, it really likes to cruise at about 80-90. It takes a long time for the hamsters to get it up to that pace, but once they get in their groove, it really likes that speed, and I can actually let up on the pedal a bit. It seems that the final drive ratio doesn't allow the engine to get into its peak torque RPM until that speed, but once it does, watch out.

Changing the diff gearing might help it be more driveable at lower speeds in that respect.

Also, this claim isn't valid in the hills of Arkansas. It only cruises that fast on the flats of the Great Plains, without a strong headwind. Give it a typical high plains "breeze" of 20mph on the nose, and it starts to struggle to keep that speed.